219: Balancing Grit and Grace: Mastering the Art of Resilience in Entrepreneurship

Jamie: 0:00

people, customers, the community they want to feel like you've got this, and so when you minimize by saying, well, I'm going to try this little thing on the side. So I always recommend that people do the extra work of creating a brand, setting their company up so that their I's are dotted, T's are crossed. That encompasses the whole goal, and then you can kind of figure out what your offerings are from there.

Camille: 0:31

So you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know this is Call Me CEO. Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO.

Camille: 0:58

This is your host, Camille Walker, where we celebrate here women and mothers building amazing businesses and balancing all the things. And how do you get past those points where you might feel like you've tried something one way, but it just isn't working out? Well, I'm so excited because today we have Jamie Gale on with us today, and she is an entrepreneur, she is a program owner, a community builder and someone who has really built and weathered many storms. So we're going to talk about so many different things, but mainly how to get past that sticking point when you feel like you've tried it and it just isn't working. So, Jamie, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to chat Me too. So you're from Wisconsin. Tell us about yourself, your family and a little bit about how you got started into your business.

Jamie: 1:45

Yeah, so I live in Madison, Wisconsin. I've lived here my whole adult life. I grew up in the Milwaukee area, which isn't too far but is far different enough from Madison, if you're familiar with the Midwest, I am the mom of three teenagers, so my kids are 17, 16, and almost 14. So I'm in full teenager mode at home and it is actually, you know, everybody said to kind of fear the teenage years and I'm finding them to be like the candy of parenting most days.

Jamie: 2:14

But you know, it really is, you know, been a really delightful surprise. A lot of my work which we'll get into is with younger children, and so I kind of didn't really know what to expect of parenting teens, and it's just been really lovely. So that is my home life. It's me and the three kids at home and my business. I started in 2013. I describe it as a program agency, and so I develop and operate programs for two main categories. One is for children and families, so I direct a summer camp with a co-director. We have an afterschool program. Those are both creative arts focused, where we have yoga and art and cooking and drama and STEM programming. And then I also own a kids yoga company where we go into schools and libraries and camps and studios and teach kids yoga programs. And then I have some trainings for both camp counselors and kids yoga teachers. So that's one section of my business. And then the other section of the programs is for entrepreneurs and educators. So groups, professional development groups, trainings, a podcast network, all that jazz.

Jamie: 3:21

You asked me how I got into it and it was kind of one of those like every step you take leads to the next type of thing. You know, when you're in it. It feels like a big shift and when you look back you're like, oh okay, all these, all these links connected. But I started my business when my kids were little and I had been teaching prior to having kids, and after I had my first I was teaching preschool at a nonprofit. And so when I had my first kid it was like okay, this math doesn't really add up to get full-time childcare and go teach and I wanted to be home with her and so I took a part-time from home job doing marketing and management for a recreational campus and they basically were like take this space and make it make money.

Jamie: 4:07

And that was sort of my first real life taste of like can you take a concept and can you take something and make it lucrative? And so that is. I bridged sort of both of those things when I started my business, like this love of teaching and children and education, with this business mindset and that sort of it unfolded from there. But it started with a kids yoga company. I was like if I could teach kids these skills at a young age, they will be so much better off. And then it has just unfolded from there. Each thing has led to the next and I see an opportunity and I'm like I could develop a program for this and kind of take it and run. So that's sort of the why I went from, you know, working for someone else to working for myself.

Camille: 4:54

Oh, I love that and I think that that's very relatable, especially in the space of entrepreneurship. You see a gap or something that you're like, oh, I think I could do that, and that passion is there to drive you so that you can keep showing up when the things get hard. And I'm curious with developing a program for the first time, what would you say for someone who wanted to do that the first time? What are the first few steps that you put into place that really helped you be successful?

Jamie: 5:19

Yeah, that's a really great question. So I would say, really focusing on what is the goal much more than what are the steps to get there. Because if you kind of attach to like this is how this has to look and I can kind of fill you in on what my first real lesson of that was, that you know, I started this kids yoga program and I was like this is how it's going to look. I'm going to open up a series in summer and families can sign up and if their kid wants to come every Tuesday at 10, I'll teach them all summer yoga. Well, I luckily did not get too attached to that exact system because I had no registrants. Nobody wants to sign up for 10 weeks of programming at the same time every week in summer. People want flexibility in summer and so I had no registrants for that first series and I could have taken that and been like well, I guess this is a terrible idea to have a kids yoga company. But instead I luckily was like, okay, I'm more attached to getting the why right, like what is the goal behind it. And so then I was flexible and was able to revamp and did a bunch of special events and that sort of kickstarted my company that then unfolded from there. So I think my message would be really get clear on why you're doing the program and less about like what the finished product is going to look like, because you will probably need to take some detours in getting to that point. So I think that would be one main piece.

Jamie: 6:42

And then, for me, I always like to advise people to create a brand. Even if you are your brand, formalize it so that you can proudly say this is what I'm doing. People like clarity. People, customers, the community they want to feel like you've got this. And so when you minimize by saying, well, I'm going to try this little thing on the side or I'm going to do a little something here and there, they just don't have anything to sink their teeth into. So I always recommend that people do the extra work of creating a brand, setting their company up so that their I's are dotted, t's are crossed. That encompasses the whole goal, and then you can kind of figure out what your offerings are from there. So I think those are the main two steps that I would say If you're thinking about putting a program together. Get clear on like what is your main goal, cause you may have to tweak the way you get there and then put in the work to create the brand. Get yourself set up and start from there.

Camille: 7:36

Ooh, I love that. I do have a freebie on my website, camillewalkerco, that is, discover your why, because I agree with you a hundred percent. It's very easy to get lost in the how if you don't understand your why.

Camille: 7:51

And that is yeah. So when you say like, yeah, there were hiccups but I had to go back to that, that square one of why am I doing this? Because it's really easy to get lost in the minutia of the hiccups that come along the way. And I'm curious with the program that you'd built where you said you started to do more programming with schools and getting into different areas. Like that I have actually coached people that have tried to get into schools and it can be tricky, but I'm curious. I mean, every district area is different, so I'm curious, what was that ticket that helped you kind of enter that space to be able to have a profitable business in a school that you could bring in?

Jamie: 8:33

Yeah, so I you know, especially with schools, one it's figuring out where is the money that's available. I mean, that's sort of the obvious answer. But really looking at the individual school or individual district, Now if you're talking about a public school, that's going to look really different than a private school. If you are in a public school, I suggest creating a connection with somebody in the PTO. They a lot of times have a lot of discretionary funds or the most that are in the school, and a lot of times, let's say you have a social worker or you have a personal connection with someone in the school. The principal may or may not, likely not have any extra budget.

Jamie: 9:07

Right, the schools are so stretched for money, the school system itself but PTOs have the flexibility to raise the money for the field trip, raise the money for the special guest, for the artist in residence, you know a gym, a FIAD program, that might be something creative, and so a lot of times that extra funding does come from a pta or pto. And so let's say you do have the school social worker, you have a specific teacher that wants to bring you in to run a program for their students, asking them to help you reach out to a pto can be the bridge, that sort of can fund it in that way. So think like they have the book fair money right, they have the field trip money, they can fund it in that way. So think like they have the book fair money right, they have the field trip money, they can assign it to an in-school field trip, something like that. So that's one way.

Jamie: 9:52

Obviously, if it is a private school or a preschool, we're talking about a different situation and then often it is the leader of the school that makes the spending decisions and so just kind of taking a step back, sometimes the people whose heart is most in bringing you into the school are not going to be the people that have the discretion to make that spending decision. And so kind of looking at it like you need the buy-in from the staff but then the financial support from some other situation. You know some other group within the school and that can. That can often help.

Camille: 10:24

Yeah, that's a really good point. Did you have resistance with getting? I mean, yoga and the art and so many of those things are being cut from our schools. My mother was actually an elementary school teacher and she would do yoga with her class, like in the class. It was very forward thinking of her. No one else that she knew was doing it and to this day she's now in her seventies and she has students that will see her occasionally and say that changed my life, that having learned that learned ability to breathe and to move and to connect in the present moment is life changing and, I think, more needed than ever. So I'm curious if you had resistance to that or if people have been pretty supportive of that new wave of thinking and teaching.

Jamie: 11:09

So I will answer that in two ways. One for the kids yoga piece. So much has changed over the past 11 years, even since I have started my company. You know I spent a lot of time at the beginning explaining what is kids yoga right? We're not lining kids up on mats in rows and asking them to be quiet. And still, you know, I've had to explain like what is it and why is it good? Now most elementary schools and most schools have some sort of mindfulness curriculum they have. The SEL is so much more prevalent in schools, so I would say it's not as much of a convincing technique anymore. Now the burden is more showing that I'm not going to be putting something on the teacher to execute. Their plates are so full and so if they can bring in a specialist or they can bring an outside provider, that can unburden the teacher from needing to carry the load.

Jamie: 11:57

The other thing I'll say, which kind of ties back to the last question that you asked me, is that many, many of our programs that we do now you know the kids yoga program is a piece of a much bigger program now, which is our creative arts summer camp. It's called Creative Soul Camp and we have our summer camp during the summer and during the school year we have afterschool programs For those. We actually rent the space from the schools themselves. So we got in with the district, we became an approved vendor and we rent the classrooms or the spaces, the gyms, everything by the hour, and then we are able to offer our program directly to the families outside of regular school hours. So that sort of answers both questions. Right, we don't need necessarily the school buy-in. Those things are being cut from the schools, right?

Jamie: 12:41

It's exactly what you said. The budgets are just so stretched so principals often will be really enthusiastic about saying, oh, you're going to come in, you're going to give our district revenue by paying rent for the hours, and you're going to come in, you're going to give our district revenue by paying rent for the hours and you're going to provide this curriculum that we do not have the resources to provide right now. Sure, we will approve you as somebody that can be in our school and then you obviously have to be amazing to work with. But just conceptually that is a way for everybody. It's like win-win, right? Because then you can charge fair market rates to the families that register their kids for the programs. Families are so happy to have programming in a space where their kids already are, that's already in their community, and you can offer something that the schools just do not have the resources to provide anymore. So that's kind of a double answer, yeah.

Camille: 13:28

I love that. I'm actually really passionate about this. I just launched a baby podcast called five minute meditations for kids. Oh, I love this is a little plug, but I really believe in it and I think that it's amazing that you're doing that and to have the resources of even five minutes of meditation has been so impactful for my kids and I wish I was close enough that we could come use your program, because it just sounds amazing.

Jamie: 13:54

Yeah, Well, I kudos to you because it's so needed and and the more the merrier in the, in the industry, right Like there, and people are hungry for it. Parents know, you know, a lot of times parents they know it's quote good for you, right they know that they want it for their kids, but they might not have a practice themselves of meditation, they might not have the skills themselves, and so a lot of times they, you know, find resources for their kids, but then it ends up becoming the family language, and so then the parents gain those strategies as well. So that's a very good point. I'm so happy to hear that you're doing that.

Camille: 14:24

Oh, thank you. It's teeny tiny but it's on TikTok and YouTube and all the places you can find it, the whole five minute episode. So not just on podcast but all social media. So we hope it blesses a lot. That's wonderful.

Jamie: 14:38

That's wonderful.

Camille: 14:39

Thank you. Well, let's switch gears a little bit with entrepreneurship, because that's another side of your business that you have developed and grown and you've built community around for years, and what's really fun is that you have a community for newer entrepreneurs as well as women that have been in the business for a decade plus. What are some hangups or sticking points that you've seen people work through? That is something that our listeners could benefit from from seeing you know those places of feeling stuck and then being able to break through.

Jamie: 15:11

Yeah, that's a great question, you know. I think one reason why the community is so important is having a space to go to talk about those sticking points. I think even just having the community itself has been a key part for our members and in moving through the sticking points. The rest of the world, for the rest of the world, the entrepreneurship community is very risk-taking, right. Like you know, it's quote unquote risk-taking. I don't feel like it's that risky because I feel like it's just. But that's just why we're wired this way, you and I, why we have our own businesses. And so having a community where you can go and be like this program didn't run.

Jamie: 15:54

This customer said this to me. I'm doubting my capability of growing in this way and not have the response be like oh yeah, maybe you should get a job. You know, having someone that says, no, you are qualified for this, you are capable. You know, this is just part of the deal. Whatever, it is, the community to build each other up, to offer perspective with experience, not just outside advice Like that, in and of itself is something that I think has provided anybody in it. I mean, it's just like anytime you talk to someone who can relate on any category, but this entrepreneurship community of, especially moms that have businesses.

Jamie: 16:28

this is such a unique juggling act that you and I are doing and have been doing, and especially when your kids are doing and have been doing, especially when your kids are little and you're just getting started, it is such a unique juggling act. You're often the head of your family and the head of your business. You're in decision overload, you're literally juggling so much and so having people that can relate that is something that definitely helps people move through those moments where you just feel like the balls are dropping or you want to take a big risk but it will require sacrifice from your family. You know, opening up a new location, starting something new, a new podcast, a new whatever it is, you know, really huge and it allows you to receive the people who love you outside of that community. It allows you to receive their caring but often not helpful perspective without creating that tornado inside of you.

Jamie: 17:25

You know, one of the things when I'm working with women that want to start a business or you know I work with the general population, not just women, on starting podcasts as well is that I have them evaluate what is their current support. Who in their life is going to cheerlead them through those difficult moments, through the late nights, through missing the social event, to keep working on their new idea and who's going to be the ones that are going to come in as doubters? It comes from a place of love that these doubters say like oh well, what are you going to be the ones that are going to come in as doubters? It comes from a place of love that these doubters you know say like oh well, what are you going to do if nobody buys from you? Or are you going to know when someone stops listening to your podcast or whatever it is?

Jamie: 18:02

You don't know what if nobody listens, right, like they are just coming from a place of love and wanting to protect you. But taking a moment to evaluate who are my cheerleaders and who are my doubters it doesn't mean you need to shut them out, but you can just filter their commentary through that lens. That's another huge thing that I think moved people through sticking points is that recognition of like where's the voice coming from and what is their internal landscape like. And then I think the other main thing that moves people through a sticking point is knowing you're never going to feel totally ready, like just acknowledging that you're never going to feel totally ready to start a new brand, to start a new project, whatever it is.

Jamie: 18:47

You're always going to have that moment of like wait, I could work on this more, but like, getting it out there is is the way you learn. You know, I'm I just one of my clients just launched her podcast and we've been working on it for a really long time and she had some false starts and it turned out incredible, incredible. But one of the things that she had to learn to accept was there is so much learning in the process there's. So you know, by actually doing it there, she was never going to know exactly how it was going to turn out. It was never going to be perfect before she started getting it out there. And now that it's out there and she can feel it in the world that she's going to be able to adapt and change it over time and that that is okay. That is okay. So you're never going to feel totally ready. It's never going to feel perfect.

Camille: 19:37

Move forward. I think that's the other mindset piece that helps people through sticking points. Yes, oh, my goodness, I think about that too when you're starting out and it is, you're still learning as you go. The good news is there's not that many people listening anyway, so if you're making mistakes, it's okay, because by the time that we acknowledge someone in a quote, they made it sort of viewpoint. That we acknowledge someone in a quote, they made it sort of viewpoint they are so far down that road that you have probably no idea that they've been doing this for years, but they don't hit our radar till they're a hundred steps ahead of where they started. So I feel like that is really freeing when we think, yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect and not that many people are watching. Typically, no people are in their exactly.

Jamie: 20:16

People are in their own minds and their own, whatever their own worlds. And you know another sort of like along these lines. You know, sometimes I see business owners. They'll start a project, that they'll put out a program. Let's just say and it doesn't run. Because that happens sometimes, right, Like I was just mentioning with my first set of programs, it doesn't run, Nobody's paying attention, Just close the registration and move on.

Jamie: 20:39

We don't need to announce that it didn't run. We don't need to advertise it. Obviously we're going to be honest if somebody asks. But we don't need to focus on the things that didn't work out. Keep moving forward. Nobody's paying that close of attention. Keep moving forward. Put it out there. People need to see and feel an idea so many times to buy in. And so, just, it's a deposit in the bank of awareness. Every time you put something out and you can tweak along the way, you can change along the way. Nobody's going to remember episode one of the podcast, right, Like? Nobody's going to remember that you advertised a program and that they didn't see pictures from it.

Camille: 21:12

You know, it's just moving forward.

Jamie: 21:13

right, like you, just keep moving forward, yeah.

Camille: 21:20

What do you think after? I mean you've been in this business now for 10 years plus what has your involvement of social media been with developing your business? What are some tips or tricks that you've learned along the way with that?

Jamie: 21:30

So, okay, I'm not the best person to ask, and here's why for the first 10, you know, nine and a half 10 years of my business, I I mean overall I have spent almost no money on marketing in my business and it's just grown over time. You know, I think it's part of is the nature of programs. Most of my programs are in person or I'm meeting you know, I meet people through my network, that kind of thing and so I really used social media as just sort of proof of concept, right, like somebody wanted to see what kids yoga looks like, someone wants to see what our summer camp looks like, someone wants to see, you know, a clip from a podcast on my podcast network. They can go and like okay, I see, yep, that's the vibe, that's the feel, that's the energy behind it. Yep, that's the vibe, that's the feel, that's the energy behind it.

Jamie: 22:16

About a year and a half ago, I sort of bought into the like you can grow anything online type of thing, and so I hired people to help me, you know, develop more content for social media. And I will be totally honest with you, it felt so inauthentic to me and so I really did. I put a lot of resources.

Jamie: 22:29

In every time they said okay film, a video about your topic of the whatever to me, and so I really did. I put a lot of resources in. Every time they said, okay, film a video about your topic of the whatever, take something. And so the material was authentic to me, like that was what I would have a conversation about. It was all genuinely my experience and my perspective. But I felt like I was just forcing myself to do these things.

Jamie: 22:52

And I started working with a leadership coach this year who actually I interviewed on my leadership podcast, and then I was like I love you, I need to hire you, you're amazing. And she encouraged me to evaluate, as I was going into my busy summer season, like what can I pause? Because my life had when you plant all these seeds and you grow them, they come to harvest, and my business was so overflowing that I didn't have a lot of time for the rest of my life, and we all go through those seasons in business ownership, right. And so I was going into my summer camp season and she was like what can be paused? You know I don't want to stop anything I like all my things, but what can be paused? And so one of the things that I gave myself permission to pause was continuing to post on social media for teaching purposes in that same sort of vein.

Jamie: 23:40

And you know what? My business continued to grow. I'm busier than ever as far as having the right kind of clients. All my programs have continued to grow. I still post here and there, throw a picture up from this or that. I have sort of the non-2024 answer to that. I've given myself permission to continue the coasting on the social media piece because it's just not where my money is coming from and it's not where my energy is. And major props and kudos to people who that feels really good and natural and feeds their business because it is so much work. People think like social media is quote easy.

Jamie: 24:21

Oh no it's not easy, but yeah, so that's sort of for me. Right now I'm using it mostly as a proof of concept. This is my vibe, this is my style share things as they make sense. But I've given myself permission to not put a ton of effort and energy into growing on social media, because it just wasn't. It's just not where my business is fed.

Camille: 24:42

So I actually love that answer because I I was actually coaching with someone just two weeks ago and she's a real estate agent and she has I don't know. I mean she's been in the business a long time and she's making really good money. And she said someone told me I need to start doing social media, like sharing every day on social. And I said but why, why, why would you do that? Is it to? I said if it's to fulfill a creative side of yourself or to challenge yourself and you feel the draw for that that you need to grow that way, then sure, but if it's to grow your business, then probably not. Like that's not where your milk and honey is coming from and it doesn't need to be. And she's at a place in her career where she doesn't need to put that in for her business to grow.

Camille: 25:34

So I actually love your answer because I think that too often we get swept up in this. Everyone needs to be a content creator to be successful mindset and that's just not the case. And that's coming from someone who's been a content creator for 14 years. You know like I can look at different businesses and like you see that and say, but that's not where my money should be going, because that's not where it's growing. So I actually really appreciate your answer, because it's not the answer for everyone, so I think that makes a lot of sense.

Jamie: 26:06

And you know, right now, one of the programs that I'm looking to continue to grow is you know, I launched this podcast network. It's grown so much, just naturally, with the shows that are on the network and just as anytime you put something out there in the world, people start asking well, how did you do that, can you teach me? And so I have taken on some business clients that have want to create a podcast for their business. It won't be on my network, but they want to create it for their business. And I thought, oh, you know, this is this is really great. I truly love guiding people through that process.

Jamie: 26:37

It's so incredibly fulfilling for me to to help them take their idea and bring it to life and launch it, and and so I was thinking, okay, I want to do more of that, and so I need to start creating content right around this. I need to create like a campaign. I need to share about it. But you know what? I don't, because they tell people who tell people, or someone hears it on a podcast, or, and so it's just by, like me operating, my business, doing my thing, being connect, well, connected to my network and their networks.

Jamie: 27:06

I'm booking out now until later in fall to bring on new clients for it, and so I'm just giving myself the permission to not focus on social media as much. Keep it out there, keep things coming, but not create content. I guess that's that yes.

Camille: 27:24

That you don't have to focus on that full force. I guess that that's that, yes, that you don't have to focus on that full force. What kind of advice would you give to someone who maybe has an idea? That I mean because, especially working with people that are new into creating a business, what idea would you give to them to have proof of concept as far as meaning, at what point should you pull the plug? Do you ever talk with people about that?

Jamie: 27:47

You mean pull the plug, as in like close things down.

Camille: 27:57

Because if we're talking about sticky points and pushing past what?

Jamie: 27:59

would you say the guide or the sign is that it's time to move past it. Right, you know I'm going to bring out my yoga teacher answer here, and I think the body is the answer. Right, you know, and almost every business problem can be solved, right? So if somebody came to me and was like, I've been working on this business for, you know, two years and it's just not growing, you know, I would I could say okay, yeah, let's, let's, let's plan it out, let's try some new things, let's breathe some new life in it, let's take it a slightly different direction. All these things you can give someone, all the solutions. Right, there's usually a way to bring in revenue to a concept, as long as it's a viable concept. But most are right. Like, if you're attached to the why and you're like we were talking about before, you can breathe life into a business most times.

Jamie: 28:42

If your body is feeling so much resistance, this is the wrong thing for your family. Like, it's not the right thing at the right time. Your family is struggling. You're bleeding money through it. Your heart isn't in it. The idea of improving it or reviving it is exhausting to you. That is a sign that it's not the right thing for you right now.

Jamie: 29:03

Now the business mentor in me would say you don't need to shut your LLC down. You don't need to keep those things. You may on a different season of life. It might serve another purpose, especially when you're a mom that is running a business. Our life is seasons it's the months, it's the school year, it's the summer, but then, backing out, it's the toddler season, the elementary school season, the middle school season.

Jamie: 29:26

Now my kids are in high school and I'm thinking, oh, my goodness, the launch is not that far away, and so my business is going to look really, really different in five years. And so my response would be if you know in your heart and your body that it's not the right time for you to be operating your business and the idea of of doing what you need to do to grow it doesn't feel right to you, then it's time, and maybe don't close it all down. Maybe you don't even have to announce anything. You just can shift what's happening in your life, because you never know when a seed is going to grow or you're going to get another idea, and then you'll have the infrastructure to put energy back into it, because you had that energy at one point and so just being kind to yourself, that motherhood is very seasonal and life is seasonal, and so you just kind of never know when you'll want that there and you don't want to have to start over from scratch. So it's sort of a both and answer.

Camille: 30:23

Ooh, I liked it. That is exactly how I would hope you would answer it, because that's true, where seasons of motherhood in life are so fleeting, that they're I mean you're, especially your kids being just a few years from launching out, and that is amazing and crazy, and I think it can be easy to get caught up in that, if not now, when it'll never happen, you know, but that's not true. I feel like there is so much possibility for us and so much life to be lived. So if you are feeling that pull, that the family needs you, or that things are getting a little too much right now, press the pause button and come back to it, because that's kind of the beauty, that is the beauty of entrepreneurship that you can push and pull back according to what you have to give. So I think that that was the perfect answer.

Jamie: 31:14

And as you're thinking about what kind of infrastructure, especially if you're at the beginning of a business, I always advise people to make the most of the least amount of infrastructure that you can create at the beginning. Keep your overhead low until you know the direction that you're at, and still always keep your overhead as low as you can while still growing as much as you can in the way that fits in your season of life, season of motherhood, season of business. And so, yeah, if you go and sign a 10-year lease at a storefront and then two years in, you're like, oh, my goodness, this wasn't right. Could you start with a mobile program? Could you rent space from somewhere else? Could you not burden yourself with more overhead than you need to so that you can, like you said, toggle up, toggle down, adjust throughout this. Appreciate you can take advantage of that opportunity that entrepreneurship gives you to adjust to your life based on the season you're in. Gives you to adjust to your life based on the season you're in.

Camille: 32:06

Yeah, Well, I agree. Well, this has been such an amazing conversation. I feel like we see a lot of things very similarly. I feel like we've both been around where it makes a lot of sense and I know that this has been super helpful. Please tell our audience where they can connect with you with your podcast and online as well.

Jamie: 32:28

Yeah Well, thank you so much for having me. First of all, it was great to chat. It's always good to talk to somebody that's like-minded, that's been down a similar path, so I'm I really appreciate you having me on the main hub of where you can find me, as on my website. It's wwwjamiegayllccom, and I can send you the link and that can go into the show notes, if you do, if you're at that, Okay great.

Jamie: 32:52

So from there everything else is linked, so you can link to there. To Lit Path Studios, which is my podcast network I have a podcast called Follow the Leaders, I have one called In it for Youth, and then also to all my other programs, the trainings for kids, yoga teachers and camp counselors and all that jazz. So everything. I created a website recently to like hub everything else because it was too many domains to handle. So on.

Jamie: 33:14

Instagram. My main handle is JamieGailLLC. I'm on there, even if I'm not posting much, so if you're going to reach out to me, I'd love to chat and that's pretty much.

Camille: 33:23

it Awesome. Well, thank you again. I appreciate it so much. And before we get off, there are a few questions that I like to ask all of our guests.

Jamie: 33:34

Awesome.

Camille: 33:35

So first is, what are you reading, watching or listening to? And the second question is a motherhood moment that you've had that you would want to share, whether it's something happy, funny, sad, memorable, whatever, okay.

Jamie: 33:53

So I right now am reading a book called the power of moments and it's really great. I really actually recommend it to anybody that's in business or leadership. It's about like how to take your day-to-day life, business, company and create special moments without disrupting the overall flow of your company. So that one's really great. I'll tell a really only because my son is not going to listen to this podcast. I'm sure he's 16, but he went on his first formal date yesterday.

Camille: 34:24

He asked a girl formal date yesterday he asked a girl.

Jamie: 34:27

it was like to lunch, he asked her to lunch.

Jamie: 34:29

Oh, like a date, date, date, yes, so he doesn't really know her well yet, but she's on my daughter's dive team and so he asked her. You know, of course, on Snapchat where they text, you know he had never actually even had a conversation with her, he just they have been messaging and I said just ask her. You know, you got to find out if you like her, cause yeah, homecoming coming up. He's got to figure that out. So he asked her to lunch. They went to, he drove her to Starbucks. You know they had a nice time.

Jamie: 34:55

And so he was texting me last night and cause he was at his dad's house and he was saying how he, you know, had this great time. And he I said, well, you should, you should tell her, you know, message her and say I had a really great time and I would really like to do that again if you're interested. And then you can kind of gauge how, what she, how she was feeling about it. So she didn't respond to him right away and he was nervous about it and so he was like I yeah, I think she probably read it, but didn't respond. Yet she's probably asking someone how to respond because she probably just doesn't know what to say. Like he was kind of saying it in like a isn't that silly that he, she, would ask someone.

Jamie: 35:31

And I was like that's exactly what you're doing. And I was like you're doing the same thing. You're asking someone how to respond. And he just laughed. So that was my, my little joyful moment last night was that you know he? So she said she loved it and that they're going to do it again.

Camille: 35:46

last night was that you know he, so she said she loved it and that they're going to do it again. So that's good. It's scary to put yourself out there and I feel like there's been breakdown of teenagers knowing how to communicate with all the texting and the phones and the, the Snapchats.

Jamie: 36:00

Even adults don't know how to do that sometimes, so that's good.

Camille: 36:03

He's asking for advice. It was cute.

Jamie: 36:05

Yeah, teasing about her asking for help and I'm like. Aaron, that's cute.

Camille: 36:11

Yeah, oh, that's the best, and I agree with you Teen years are pretty magical. The bigger the kids are, the bigger decisions and the bigger problems. Yes, that's true, but it is so great too. So if you're listening and you have younger kids, know that there's a lot of magic in those teen years, and if you can keep those lines of communication open, it's so much fun, which it sounds like that's exactly what you've done.

Jamie: 36:34

Yeah, I saw something that said open doors, closed mouths and when you're parenting older kids. So like, keep your door open, line of communication, but keep your mouth shut unless you're, unless they ask you for for advice, and that's sort of what I try to do and it keeps them coming for more information and more discussion. So, yeah, that's good advice.

Camille: 36:52

Absolutely Well. Thank you again. This has been so much fun and I can't wait to check out your podcast as well. Well, thank you so much for having me. Yep, all right. Thank you everyone for listening in. If this was helpful to you, which I hope it was, please make sure to subscribe and leave a five-star rating and review and share with a friend, because this is the kind of inspiration we need to keep the world rocking and rolling, with amazing women doing incredible things. Hey, ceos, thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment. In a five-star review, you could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram at callmeceopodcast, and remember you are the boss.