END THE FIGHT: IDENTIFYING YOUR MONEY PERSONALITY | AMANDA CHRISTENSEN

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CAMILLE WALKER [0:02]

What is your money personality type or your money history and how are you and your partner creating a financial future that you want with the decisions you're making today? Today, we are speaking with Amanda Christensen, who is the creator of Utah Money Moms Powerpay Money Master Course and an accredited financial counselor, and associate professor at Utah State University, who is going to teach us today about how we can make a plan for ourselves a year, five years, and a lifetime from now starting step by step with understanding our own beliefs around money today, our partner's beliefs, and how we can use that to make financial plans for now and the future.

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CAMILLE [0:47]

So, you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

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CAMILLE [1:08]

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Call Me CEO and this is our first episode of April, which is kicking off financial literacy month. I don't know if you're aware that it is, but it is and being a CEO has a lot to do with how you handle your finances, how you feel about money.

Today, we have Amanda Christensen here, who is going to help us do that. She is the author of Powerpay Money Master Course. She is also the creator of the Utah Money Moms, is an accredited financial counselor, and an associate professor. She's been working on the USU extension team and has been doing that for 11 years. Today, we're going to be talking about how to understand your natural bias, your money history, and money personalities, how you can help that to empower yourself, your relationship with money, and also with your partner's. So, thank you so much, Amanda, for being here today. I can't wait to dive into this topic.

AMANDA CHRISTENSEN [2:05]

You're welcome, Camille. Thanks for having me. This is a fun one, isn't it?

CAMILLE [2:09]

There is so much to unpack. I feel like we could probably split this up into five different episodes. We may be calling you back very, very soon.

AMANDA [2:17]

That'd be fine. That'd be great.

CAMILLE [2:20]

All right. Well, let's talk a little bit about your family first since we are moms here and I want to hear about your journey coming into the financial world and how it's helped fuel your passion and your life.

AMANDA [2:33]

Sure. Well, I was sitting in Alena Johnson's Family Finance class at Utah State and I just felt like I'd come home. The topic just hit. It hit a string. It hit a cord with me. I think growing up I knew money was a point of conflict for my parents. So, when Alena announced she was doing research about how couples in happy marriages were managing their money, I made a beeline after class right down to her and I said, "I'm in. I want to know about that. I want to be your research assistant." That led to a graduate degree and now career teaching people about money and how money can be positive and empower ourselves rather than just talk all the time about all the stuff that is wrong or that's hard with money.

CAMILLE [3:21]

I think that you are speaking to me on such a wonderful level about really tapping into the purpose of the reason that you went into finance and also the powerful empowerment just of our mind and the way that we associate ourselves and our ability to earn money and what that means. It sounds like your research in that is perfect for everyone listening to really understand where they're coming from with limiting beliefs they may have about creating their own business or in establishing a healthy financial home, whether that is staying from home and working or being a stay at home or creating a business outside of your home.

AMANDA [3:59]

Right. It applies on levels, whether you're a CEO of your own personal finances or that extends to a business. It's the same positive mindset that I think helps propel us forward rather than, "If I only had this, then I'd be happy, if I only had more money." We hear that a lot. "More money would solve my problems." More money doesn't solve the problem if the problem is related to the personality or the behavior is still there. So, that's why I love this topic so much.

CAMILLE [4:37]

Yeah. Take us through those steps. I know you have some questions prepared for us to dive into to think about how we can really understand what our own associate with money might be and how that could be creating a roadblock for us or not.

AMANDA [4:49]

Okay. So, here's a question for everyone. If you could visualize money as a man or a woman, as a person, bring money to life, are you thinking of a man or a woman? This is a fun question to ask in class because the answer is often about split 60%-40%, most commonly, but usually it's 60% are envisioning the man and 40% say, "I think I would envision a woman." Another question we ask, if you saw money walking down the street, what would you do? Would you just smile and say hi and keep walking? Would you go over and talk and interact or would you make a point to avoid and keep on going?

I don't know if you've ever been asked a question about money like that before. It might sound a bit silly upfront, but I think it's just one of those questions to start easing them to this conversation about common sense with regards to money. Often, really smart people make poor money decisions and sometimes that stems back to this idea that we've talked about, our money, our personal bias, and sometimes money history. Those are some fun questions to get you thinking off the bat about what it might be. How do I associate money, as a man or a woman? If it was walking down the street, would I interact with it, avoid it or just smile from a distance and wave?

CAMILLE [6:41]

Or would you chase after it and say, "Hey. Let's talk?"

AMANDA [6:45]

Yeah. "Hey. What can I do?" Yeah. Exactly. Everything in between. So, we do have some natural bias and we do have some things, especially as women, we deal with four biases and we deal with these every day. As women, we're programmed, bless our hearts, a little bit to have to overcome some of these biases to be successful with money and let ourselves be successful.

So, I'll just briefly tell you. These biases are present versus future. Now, men and women, these biases affect all men and women. But women in particular, since our brains are always like this web of thoughts. Visualize a web and every thought is connected to this one over here and that one over there. So, that's why, as women, these sometimes hit us a little harder. The present versus future bias, we prefer the present. This is we think about our most immediate needs and immediate consequences to things. So, if we're in debt, it's hard to think about saving for the future or harder because it's not the here and now, for example.

Pleasure versus pain is another bias. Eating the donut right now that you see in front of you rather than avoiding it because you'd like to eat healthier or lose weight or whatever your health goals are. So, spending now rather than sacrificing for future is often a pleasure versus pain money bias that we have.

Confirmation bias involves looking for evidence to prove what you believe because you're going to confirm your bias. So, what you believe and what you want to believe. So, we look for things that reinforce or confirm our money personalities. We maybe ignore or don't listen to things that don't support our money personalities.

And then, the final is the status quo bias. So, if you see yourself as someone who has money, for example, or money is not currently a struggle, but then you lose a job or you're furloughed or something medical takes a turn in your life. When your situation changes, you can have no money. All of a sudden needing really to pivot and sabotage yourself because you continue to live in that status quo. You can identify as poor because of your money history and how you grew up and identify as not being good with money, even though you have a pretty decent job and a solid foundation moving forward and have the ability to progress financially. You can sabotage your financial progress because of that status quo bias. So, just brief nuggets to help us unpack this, but there's so much going on, we give ourselves a little bit of slack to learn a little bit more about what goes into our money personality.

CAMILLE [10:00]

My goodness. Well, I'm listening to that and thinking, "There is so much there." What comes to me over and over again is that so much of what we create in our mind is what we create as our reality, where if we have certain biases towards money or making money or if we see ourselves as good or bad with money, that can affect the outcome of what actually turns out happening, not dependent necessarily on the type of job you have or what your annual income might be.

AMANDA [10:30]

Right. Absolutely. You can be happy or unhappy on any income. The research shows, the research confirms that over and over. We also make money assumptions. One question I like to ask folks, we assume more money solves the problem, but why do you think you'd be upset to inherit a million dollars? People look at me a little bit like, "Well, why would anyone be upset to inherit a million dollars?" And then, when you let people really think about that, the responses include, well, they don't want maybe the responsibility that comes with having to now be "good with money" or expectations of family members that are going to come into play now that I've inherited that money or the pressure to be good, the taxes, and the list goes on. And then, you start to realize, "Oh. Well, okay. We all have these biases, these money assumptions. We often assume more money solves the problem. When in reality, maybe our money history is something we want to dive into a little bit more to figure out what stems the underlying issue with money.

CAMILLE [11:51]

Yeah. So, what would you suggest if someone's trying to really digging deep into their money history and understand perhaps what their biases might be, what would your suggestions be for understanding that themselves?

AMANDA [12:03]

Yeah. That's a great question. So, utahmoneymoms.com on the Worksheets and Resources Section, I've got a worksheet. It's titled How to Start the Money Conversation. It's a free printable that gives you some questions to ask yourself about your money history. In brief, some of those questions include what are your first money memories? What was your first big purchase with your own money? How did your family handle money? What were vacations like? What were holidays like? Did you receive an allowance or not? These money history questions, you can unpack these and this is a fun money date if you've not answered or aren't aware of how you would answer these questions yourself or what your spouse's answers would be. It's a money conversation that isn't assigning blame or pointing fingers. Have the money history conversation because that's a fun one.

CAMILLE [13:12]

And that's available for free on your website?

AMANDA [13:15]

Yeah. It's just a free download on the Resources Section, how to start the money conversation and it has more of those money history questions.

CAMILLE [13:22]

Okay. I�m loving it. So, we'll make sure to link to that in the Notes below because that sounds like an amazing way to start with your partner and for yourself personally to answer those questions and see where you're coming from because I feel like a lot of times, we're under the understanding that talking about money is taboo. Talking about money isn't a good idea. Talking about money is something to be brushed under the rug, and that create so much frustrations for individuals, couples, and families. I think that there's so much power that comes from truly understanding where we're both coming from and how that can vary.

Where I came from, a family of educators, we didn't necessarily have loads of money, but it was consistent and we had consistent vacations and we had consistent time together as a family. Where my husband, his dad owned his own car dealership and it was a small business and weekends and holidays were his busiest time of the year and some years were feast and some years were famine. And so, it has been really interesting to see how our perspectives of money and what we experienced as children were so different, but I feel like we could benefit so much from taking this course or doing those questions because there is so much power that comes from that knowledge.

AMANDA [14:38]

Yeah. You've made a really good point that I would highlight. What you said, if you have not answered these questions for yourself, start there. Often, when you went out to eat in a restaurant, did you always have to order the least expensive thing or were there a lot of, "Hey. Don't tell your mom or dad that we bought this. Okay. We're going to not talk about it." I just think there's opportunities there to reflect for yourself and then seek to understand as you share. It's a great thought.

CAMILLE [15:16]

I agree with that because it's just like if you go into any relationship, understanding yourself first is key to success of really coming together and understanding each other because in whatever regard that is, if you don't trust and know yourself and where you're coming from, it's really hard to trust and know and really meld with another person. Money, I don't know what the statistic is now, but I know that money is one of the top reasons for divorce or at least in citing divorce in the beginning. It's hard. Money can be really hard. What are some bits of advice that you would give to couples that are feeling a little bit lost and not knowing where to begin with that beyond taking this questionnaire? What are some of the things that you have seen that has been helpful in that regard?

AMANDA [16:05]

Well, diving in and learning your money personalities has to be my top recommendation. But beyond that, which is what we're talking about today, I think something that you could implement today right now and do is a personal spending allowance of each partner. I know this sounds like a no-brainer or something, but so much of our discretionary money spending, so much of the butting heads comes from, "Why did you buy that? It wasn't in the budget. That was unexpected." That was spontaneous, which is one of our money personalities. So, it's not okay I guess when that is a breach of trust or when that comes across confrontational.

I have a spending limit every month and really the only rule is I cannot borrow into next month. Period. I don't have to ask permission to spend that money. I don't have to say what I'm buying it on. Nothing. It's mine. Financial autonomy is critical for couples. It's critical. It's actually also critical for children growing up to have some financial autonomy before they leave home. But to stay on subject here, it's critical. Financial autonomy and the deeper roots in that involve financial abuse and financial infidelity which we do not want.

Answering your question, because learning about your money personality, creating financial autonomy in your relationship by a simple his and hers or each partner or spouse having a budget, a personal spending budget, I think does wonders. You can do that tomorrow. You can set that up. Start with one to two percent of your take home pay because obviously this is money in excess of our entertainment budget or eating out budget or this is fun money.

CAMILLE [18:13]

Oh, I love that advice. For those that are listening, you know that Qube Money is a sponsor of my podcast. They have the ability where you can actually set up your own Qube for each of you that is your discretionary money and you can use it how you want to. I know that that comes into play, especially if you are budgeting and, say, you even want to buy a gift for your spouse or you want to do different things like that where you want to keep it your own private thing or self-care or whatever that may be. I think that's so helpful to have designated money that's just yours and you don't have to feel like you have to report about it. You can just use it how you want to.

AMANDA [18:50]

Yeah. It's pretty critical for long-term. Otherwise, those disagreements in nitpicky things can happen every day. Everyday. So, no wonder why money is cited as one of the top reasons for divorce, no wonder.

CAMILLE [19:11]

Yeah. I like that you talked about expectations because I feel like a lot of times, if we're feeling upset about something, it's typically because there was an expectation that was unmet. If you're not laying out a plan together and there are expectations that aren't being met on either side, that's when conflict happens in all areas of our lives. Our expectations, unmet expectations to have expectations, which really comes down to communication.

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CAMILLE [19:37]

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And I have a little sneak peek of something up and coming about how to become a virtual assistant. So, if that is something that you would think you might want to do in the future, stay tuned, get subscribed to newsletter so you can hear all of the details because we will have special discounts for those who are subscribed to our email list. You can go there and find more information at callmeceopodcast.com or camillewalker.co.

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CAMILLE [20:28]

So, I'm so excited to talk about the money personalities and there are six main money personalities. We're going to dig into these, so that as you're listening, you can take some notes and say, "Okay. I think this is me." And then, maybe guess what you Tink your partner is, but they could listen to this as well and decide on their own. But let's dive into that and how we can decide or how you can teach us how we can bring those personalities together to create a more cohesive whole.

AMANDA [20:56]

Okay. So, there are six and like you've heard the five love languages. Oftentimes, when we talk money personalities, we think spender, saver, done. There's a little more to it than that. There's just a little more to it. So, these money personalities connect the psychological, financial behavior, and economic-related research to determine these six categories. So, legitimate research has been done to figure this out.

They're called money habitudes, which is a new word. I know we're talking money personalities, but a habitude is a combination of a habit and an attitude. So, if you were to Google and try to find resources about this, you would want to be searching money habitudes here. The six are security, money helping you feel safe, secure, and in control. Giving, where money helps you feel good by giving to others. Status, where money helps you present a positive image. Planning, money helps you achieve your goals. Spontaneous, money encourages you to enjoy the moment. The final sixth carefree, so money isn't a priority necessarily. You just let life happen as it will. Those are the six.

CAMILLE [22:45]

I'm making notes as I go through this. These six, is it possible to be a combination?

AMANDA [22:52]

Yes.

CAMILLE [22:53]

Okay. It is because I�m looking at this and going, "Okay. That is not. That is me. That's not me. Maybe those two are too." So, let's talk about how those work and how you define which one you might be and how they work together.

AMANDA [23:07]

Yeah. Absolutely. So, we are often a combination of the six and any major life event, so a birth, a death, a job loss, a new job, a graduation, a marriage, a divorce, any of these life events alter our money personalities. They can just adjust them for a bit. So, generally speaking, we'll have underlying things that are the same, but major life events, so this is something that I would analyze every year. I would take the quiz to find out what my money personality is to see how it has changed, which you can do. There's an online quiz to find out what your personal money personalities are in the moment.

There's no perfect combination. I know I said security, giving, status, planning, spontaneous, carefree. Some of those sound a little better than others. Doesn't planning sound better than carefree or spontaneous? But to be truthful, no combination is correct if you will. Too much of any one habitude, there will be challenges to do that. You will see some challenges. If you did the quiz and you were missing, completely missing one of the habitudes, that would be an area where I would say, "Oh. I would dive in there." There may be some challenges associated to completely not having any of them in your arsenal.

So, at different times in your lives, you may draw on with your personal finances, you may be a little more carefree and spontaneous. In your business finances, you may find that you're security, status a little more. The combinations are endless and generally speaking, we're not stuck with what we've got today. So, when you know what your makeup is, how much of each of the six you are, then you're able to move forward and adjust for the personalities that are really heavy in your life and maybe try to pull out some of the ones that aren't.

So, I'll give you an example. I have a pretty strong spontaneous money habitude. I do. I have a spontaneous habitude. So, in an effort to help that not create tension or issues with the spouse and also not below my financial long-term goals, which are also important to me, I compensate for that in my monthly spending with the personal allowance, the personal spending that I mentioned earlier, as well as we save about one percent of our income every month that we can do some spontaneous spending and giving. That allows me to operate with that personality, without it just killing, occasionally blowing the budget or anything, which we don't want. So, there's an example of a way that you would find out or discern, and then do something to help. It's okay to be spontaneous, my goodness. How boring would we be if we couldn't be spontaneous sometimes? We just don't want that to blow the budget.

CAMILLE [27:02]

Yeah. So, when people are going to take this test, where do they go to take this test first?

AMANDA [27:09]

Okay. So, you can really just Google money habitudes or you can go to moneyhabitudes.com. You can do it right there online and it costs anywhere from 10 to 15 dollars each time you do that. We also though have included this quiz if you will as part of one of the resources in the Powerpay Money Master Course. So, you can go to the Powerpay Money Mastercourse if you want that all-inclusive deal there. You're not just going to get your money personalities. You're going to get credit and debt and financial organization and budgeting and all of that too. If you wanted the one, quickly go to moneyhabitudes.com. You can do that and pay for it there or get it in the course. I think we have a code. I think camille10 is the code for your folks.

CAMILLE [28:07]

Yeah, which makes it only 30 dollars which is an incredible steal. This course that you built is all inclusive to help people understand how to create a financial roadmap and future which I think really taps into that planning personality which may or may not come naturally to you, those that are listening and perhaps you too. Who doesn't want to be spontaneous with their money every once in a while? I think by giving ourselves education and the planning piece, it opens the freedom to have those spontaneous moments and not to feel guilty about it because you planned for that spontaneously. And I think that that's the difference that comes into play when you have a plan. It's interesting to me that you say you take this once a year, that test once a year. Do you really feel like it's necessary to evaluate that often?

AMANDA [28:58]

Well, because every year there tends to be things that have just changed enough about our progress towards our financial goals that I'm interested to see if I respond to the questions any differently. Now to be fair, I know the questions fairly well.

CAMILLE [29:17]

It's quite hard.

AMANDA [29:18]

Yeah, but I think it would be interesting for folks and without being too overbearing. Oftentimes, I give this as a gift to newlyweds. I share this with family members. This is close to my heart because I feel like it does help our relationships and our communication skills. Financial health bleeds into every other aspect of health. Research shows that really clearly, so if we can know a little bit about more these things, then the better off I think we'll be moving forward with the people that we interact with, whether that's colleagues or spouses or children or friends, whatever.

CAMILLE [30:13]

Yeah. I like that you said that we can be a combination of all of these and that they can change and then if there's something that we want to improve upon that you can. My husband is a lifetime fan of Dave Ramsey and I really like him. I've read his book Money Makeover, maybe not as well as my husband would have liked. But I'll tell you this. When we're in the car and he and I are driving together and we're listening to people calling in and doing their, "I�m debt free" shout. Do you know what I�m talking about? You know what I�m talking about.

AMANDA [30:48]

Yes.

CAMILLE [30:48]

Yeah. It's like, "I'm debt free" and they tell their stories about how they were able to overcome hardship, job loss, medical problems, maybe it's depression, any of these number of things and still being able to achieve their goals through planning and making a roadmap to really create that reality. And I think that a lot of times we forget that sacrifice has to be in order for us to reach those big goals. The reason why it is such a big deal for people to yell, "I�m debt free", is because it's so rare. It's so rare to have that experience and to be able to shout that. I think that by surrounding yourself with that education and that mindset that you can achieve these things that it does take planning and sacrifice, it also makes it possible. And so, what would you suggest for couples, perhaps there is someone who is married to a spontaneous spender? Maybe they are a spontaneous spender married to a planner, what would you suggest for bringing couples together that do have different types and want to create new habits themselves?

AMANDA [31:59]

Sure. There are challenges and there are advantages for every personality type. The challenge with that spontaneous personality particularly that you bring up is that it extends to maybe even when you don't have money that you go into debt to buy things you don't need possibly. You don't have money for the unexpected and you might feel powerless to control your spending whether or not it's your partner, your spouse you're dealing with or if it's you yourself. What we don't want is to keep money secrets or to feel guilty or ashamed. We do not want any of that with regards to money.

So, advantages of then knowing, "Okay. If I have a money personality that's strong in this area, let's first remind ourselves that just because someone doesn't have the same money personalities as me doesn't mean I can't respect or understand." So, advantages to that person though that that person brings to the table because remember, we're going to focus on strengths really to help us come together. That's one recommendation. So, enjoin adventures and the unexpected or being able to quickly respond to all opportunities is a strength in that person's wheelhouse. Getting things right away, getting these needs taken care of, and boom, it's done.

But I would probably research the best washer and dryer set for a month and my husband would say, "Well. Here's what I found today and we can pick it up tomorrow." I really appreciate that about him because I don't want to research washers and dryers for a month. So anyway, getting things right away or having a system or a group of friends that surround you that will go and do things and go places and do things when you want to go. So, I think we have to focus on the strengths that come with these money personalities and realize that it is just okay. One big takeaway with this money personality stuff is that I can expect money personalities that are different from mine. Especially in business and even with spouses and partners, at least that initial understanding of the strength they bring to the table can be a starting place I think.

CAMILLE [34:28]

I like that because I think a lot of times as we know, opposites attract with personality and those come with their own package deals of if you have a person who is spontaneous by nature and adventurous and really fun, chances are they are going to be respects to many they feel the same way that they like to spend spontaneously and they like to go on adventures that include spending money spontaneously. So, I think that that's true that it's focusing on the positive and then coming together to make a plan. What would you suggest for couples who are coming together looking at the positives that they have? What's a good way for them to come together and make goals together that work for someone who is more of a spontaneous type personality versus a planner?

AMANDA [35:15]

Sure. So, I think that one of the number one things you can do is take a big picture step back. So, there's the day-to-day spending that sometimes gets in our way, but then for the strengths that these different personalities together bring to the table is the little picture, big picture ability. So, I think creating a financial vision board and evaluating financial goals yearly. It's like 80% of Americans don't have a written financial plan. It's not a budget. That's a "Today, what am I doing? In a year from now, five years from now, ten years from now."

So, every decision we make every day affects the ten years from now outlook. But if we've never gone there, if we've never talked financial vision, if we've never really financially decided or thought through a plan, then that's only ever going to be if the day-to-day adviser is on and that's all we're looking at. I think couples coming together to say, "Well, what would we want life to look like in one year from now? What would we want to be different about our financial situation? What would be evidence that it was different?" That's usually the question that gets you, "Oh, well. We'd eliminate credit card debt or we'd be able to purchase a rental property" or whatever comes of that conversation, five and ten, and retirement. Again, it's not the spontaneous fun thing to talk about right now, but you better believe it needs to be a part of that financial plan as well.

CAMILLE [37:10]

Yeah. I am lucky because I also had that same class in Utah State from Alena Johnson and she was such an incredible teacher and so inspiring. I feel like financial literacy, it's such a travesty that our education system isn't centered more around that visualization and the planning and also the practices of how to make that happen. I feel like it's really something that as a country our kids are suffering because they don't know. They don't have those tools. But thankfully, I had that education and my husband is a CPA and the biggest numbers nerd ever, which is totally to my benefit.

AMANDA [37:53]

Awesome.

CAMILLE [36:53]

I know. So, what we've found that's been really helpful for us is when we're on really long road trips, he and I will visualize and make goals of what we want to see happen in our life financially as well as what it would look like, how we would get there. And we've recently found one that we've written five years ago and it was in a notebook of mine that I just randomly picked up. It was so cool to see that in each of those goals we had written for ourselves, we had met and surpassed every single one that we had written. I know. It's so cool.

AMANDA [38:32]

I love that.

CAMILLE [38:33]

I know. It's so fun. We've always done this and what I've always done is writing things down. So, I think that that's been key for us is the car ride visioning because it's a time that you're together and you can be on that long stretch of road and say, "Okay. What would it look like in five years from now? What would our goals be? What would it end up looking like?" And then, also to be able to look back and see how far you've come. That was such a huge payday for us. It just happened about a month ago.

AMANDA [39:07]

I love that.

CAMILLE [39:08]

Yeah. We need to coin it with something, but it's our car ride dreaming or something. I don't know, but that is really fun.

AMANDA [39:18]

Your vehicle visioning, Camille. Vehicle visioning.

CAMILLE [39:21]

There it is. Vehicle visioning. I'll tell you what. We have those big picture vehicle visioning moments, but what has really helped us keep on track is to have weekly meetings on Sundays. And sometimes, there are times in my life where I can be more of a habitual Amazon spender where we'll sit down and he does it too. We take turns. We'll say, "We just really need to turn off Amazon for the month. Let's see if we can do without ordering from Amazon for a month." You can. You can do it and it's just by doing those weekly check-ins to see where you are. Some of those weeks, it's, "Oh. We're actually doing really well. We could do a special date out with the kids or just with us." It's doing those weekly check-ins that I think really helps you get those vehicle visualizations.

AMANDA [40:16]

I love that. I'm going to use that form now on. That's great because you can do anything for a week. That's a thing. Being in a crunched budget for a month or longer, but for a week, yeah. I love that. I think small steps really impact financial health. I really like that a lot. How fun.

CAMILLE [40:42]

Yeah.

AMANDA [40:43]

That's so great.

CAMILLE [40:45]

Thank you. I know that you would nerd out about that with me too because you love it.

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CAMILLE [40:50]

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CAMILLE [41:27]

So, tell me. I want to hear about a time for you personally where you've set a goal for yourself whether it was personally or with your husband that you set out to reach a financial goal that really felt daunting, but then you were able to overcome it. What was that and what did it feel like for you? What did you learn?

AMANDA [41:44]

Well, so our biggest financial stumbling blocks came when we were pretty quickly forced with some infertility decisions medically that were not covered with insurance. So, all of a sudden, we were faced with taking on new debt that felt necessary and good in a way because how else would we bring a little one into our lives? But also, really weighed on us as far as our progress and our goals. We're just taking backward steps not forward steps.

And so, I can remember feeling good that we had what we needed to get the funds to move forward with infertility treatment, with IVF, which is one of the more invasive fertilization, the more expensive infertility treatments. And then, turning around right away and both of us feeling like, "Okay. How are we going to tackle this? What is the plan to eliminate this? Because we're not just going to sit here and make the minimum payment and feel okay." Neither of us were really okay with that.

So, I can remember sitting down and like I said earlier, you can skimp for a while but it takes a lot of self-discipline to skimp on your budget month after month after month. And so, we just went by categories. This month, we're going to really dial down our grocery spending. Anything left over is going to that IVF loan. The next month maybe it was entertainment spending and whatever we're going to throw on that loan. And then, the windfall or if tax return money ever came or a bonus ever came or anything like that, we already had in our minds where we wanted that to go because we were on that path.

I can remember paying off the IVF loan for our first and only child, feeling like a million bucks, feeling like that really meant something because we'd worked on it together and it wasn't necessarily a bad financial decision that got us in that spot in the first place. It was a medical need, so what do we do with our cards that were dealt and stay positive about it? We had family support. I will never forget the support that came along the way to help us with that.

CAMILLE [44:26]

That was so special. I really think that that is an unexpected cost that a lot of people are going through. I feel like it's more and more all of the time. I love that you also said that you had a plan of where that money was going to go, that it wasn't so much a question of if or the how, it was just that's where it's going, and so let's tackle this together in a positive way.

AMANDA [44:52]

Yeah. That really helped to have a plan ahead of time. If you don't, then months go by and you're not making progress and you just wonder, "Well, what is the goal here?"

CAMILLE [45:04]

Well, let's talk about the Powerpay Master Course that you helped co-author and what it is as a tool to help us understand our personalities in regards to money and how we can create a roadmap so that we can get those visionary vehicle moments to become a reality.

AMANDA [45:21]

Sure. So, this course created as a way to put online, record videos and create worksheets and link further resources, so people could deep dive into whatever topic they need. But the course starts with, "What's your why? What is your financial why? What is the big picture?" If you don't know, if that visioning board process has never occurred to you, financial vision board, you have to start there. And then, we dive into money personalities. As I mentioned, that quiz is included along with about a twenty-page PDF of, "So, what? Now, I know my money personality, so what? What do I do with it?"

CAMILLE [46:04]

Now, the work begins, yeah.

AMANDA [46:05]

It's so great. And then, tracking expenses and budgeting, saving, paying off debt, budgeting with unexpected income is talked about. So, all of these things that build on each other to create this well-rounded smart money mindset that then I think sets you on a road that allows you to make personal finances personal. So, you have to make personal decisions every month, every day almost about your finances. But we'd like to send you down a road that enables you to make those decisions informed and aware and confident rather than a road that you maybe just dive in without knowing and wished you had done things differently down the road or you just know you don't want to do things the same as your parents, which you're not sure what that looks like. There's a lot of uncertainty because it's personal, so it's universal in that no one can avoid money, but it's unique. It's unique. So, what the course does well, I think, is helps you see what are the expert tips, what are the tried-and-true pro tips that we can give people that then allow them to make personal finance personal for them.

CAMILLE [47:27]

Wow, I love that. It seems like that should be part of everyone's education and a part of everyone's step before getting married. Don't you think?

AMANDA [47:40]

I love that.

CAMILLE [47:40]

It just seems like a wedding planner should be a part of it and be like, "Okay. Well, in this side is where you go to your financial planning station before you pick up your flowers." It just seems like that should be the way it is. So, I�m so grateful.

AMANDA [47:52]

There's a business idea. There's a business idea.

CAMILLE [47:52]

Right? We could talk about it today. I have one more question for you and this is a little lulu, but I don't know. I believe in it. I don�t know if you do, but do you believe in manifestation of money? Do you believe in the power of your mind in regards to building business with money or your own personal finances? Tell me about your belief system with that.

AMANDA [48:19]

Yeah. I do. I believe if we plan to fail, we fail. If we plan to succeed, we succeed. So, letting ourselves tell ourselves, "I�m good with money." What a simple money mantra. "I can be good with money. There's no value on my personal self that has to do with money." That is separate, especially with women. So, I do think that the more positive we can be in our mindset, the better of we are and the more enabled we are to succeed. You might just surprise yourself. Self-discipline is linked 100% to that positive money mindset and that's where, like I say, you can make all the money in the world. We've talked our brains are naturally biased. We make money assumptions. We all have money history. But guess what? No one is stuck in that. And that's where the mental strength and the mental positivity can really make a difference, I think.

CAMILLE [39:33]

Yeah. Amen. I agree. I'm so excited. The Powerpay Money Course is available. You can purchase that at utahmoneymoms.com. Use the code camille10 to get ten dollars off which makes it only 30 dollars, which is just a no-brained in my mind. I'm so grateful for you for putting it together and that it can empower women to really understand their own abilities and to picture money as a woman, why not? I'm just over here waving the flag of, "Yes! This is so good." So, thank you so much for being with us today, Amanda.

AMANDA [50:07]

You are so, so welcome. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for having me.

CAMILLE [50:11]

You bet.

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CAMILLE [40:14]

Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. If you are wanting to create your own financial future with empowerment and security, check out the power pay master course using the code camille10 for your ten dollars off, making this course only ten dollars and worth every single penny. If you have any questions or you want to tune in with me, come and connect with me on Instagram at callmeceopodcast or on my website at camillewalker.co.

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