255: $40,000 Launch With Only 1200 Instagram Followers

Kelly: 0:00

And so I had different businesses that I started. Sometimes I worked in other small businesses, but I've always for the last 25 years, I've had all of this passion for small business owners.

Camille: 0:18

So you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know this is Call Me CEO. Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. This is your host, Camille Walker, and here we share mothers building businesses, how to do it effectively, and on today's episode, we're talking about how to have success without having a huge number of social media followers. This is a new trend that I'm seeing come into the conversation more about really engaging with your following, nurturing your email list, connecting with the people that are with you. And today we have an expert, Kelly Leardon, who is the CEO and owner of Walk Like Warriors, and she is here to share with us how she has been able to do this and really nurture her people and grow an amazing business. So, Kelly, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Kelly: 1:26

It is an honor. Thank you for having me, Camille.

Camille: 1:28

So tell our audience about you a little bit of a background, of how you got into doing what you're doing now and this concept of how you nurture your small audience to have a big income.

Kelly: 1:41

So much fun, and I will start this by saying I am the furthest thing from a social media expert. What I'm an expert in is, like you said, connecting and converting at a very real, raw level, so that your audience size doesn't actually matter whatsoever. And so Keith and I we've been married 25 years. He's my favorite person in the whole wide world. We have four kids together two girls, two boys 17 years old up to 25 years old, and my oldest two are married together two girls, two boys 17 years old up to 25 years old, and my oldest two are married, which is so wild to me. We moved all over the country. Every time he got promoted we had to move to a different state, and so I homeschooled because I was not about pulling my kids out of school every year and making them start over. That was kind of my experience when I was growing up and I hated it, and so I had different businesses that I started.

Kelly: 2:22

Sometimes I worked in other small businesses, but I've always, for the last 25 years, I've had all of this passion for small business owners. To me, they're just this raw, gritty bunch of people who have such a positive mindset and sort of like it's this or nothing. And so I started out as an administrative assistant, working alongside small business owners and you know then, executive assistant, project manager, just sort of like all these different roles. It was always almost always with small business owners. I respected them. The very first gentleman I ever worked with this is, I think, what really cemented it for me is he had to mortgage his house to get a loan to start the business, and essentially it was the epitome of if it didn't work. He was homeless and I remember just being so in awe of him and thinking these are people I want to hang out with for as long as humanly possible. So I had my own photography business. We got transferred a few states away.

Kelly: 3:19

I didn't want to start over from the ground zero. I mean, I've really done it all to the point where I'm almost embarrassed about my background because most of my adult life people are like, oh, she's always doing something different. But I just have this love for novelty. And eventually I got certified as a director of operations and I was working fractionally, essentially coming alongside a CEO and developing a strategy, figuring out where the pain points are, where the mess was, how to strengthen the business holistically, and I started to see patterns emerge, of course, and I realized I didn't have a presence online. It was all word of mouth and when you're a fractional director of ops, the retainer rate is pretty high. So you don't need 50 customers like you really need two or three clients and you're golden. But I just started to get this itch. So I was a super fan of Amy Porterfield and like that whole genre of female entrepreneurship. So I thought you know I'm going to start this page and my name, kelly, means warrior woman. As people listen to this podcast, they're going to be like that vibes, that tracks. I thought I really want women to feel empowered and that they are showing up and serving whatever way in the world they're supposed to and really serving their family and living in alignment. So I called it walk like warriors and I really want women to feel like the sort of warrior energy of being super driven and focused on what they were doing.

Kelly: 4:40

It started as a faith based page. I had no idea what I was doing. If you saw my first Instagram story, you would probably pass out because you would cringe so hard you would not survive it. It was so bad it was. So I'm telling you it was like deer in headlights bad. But I just kept going and, whether people want to categorize it or that, I'm only using this phrase so that people understand the way my brain works almost anyone would be like she has the most severe ADHD of anyone you've ever seen. And so I would talk about time management and how I was growing my business and just different things.

Kelly: 5:12

And it was a faith-based page. I was talking about marriage and kids and family and scripture, and my DMs were just and keep in mind I had 30 followers. But it was like, hey, could you talk a little bit more about you use an analog timer? Why does that help? Why can't you use the timer on you? So I would answer them and then 32 followers and I would lose four.

Kelly: 5:29

I mean, it was just the most painful three months of my life, but essentially I got to about 100 followers and one day I woke up there was a DM will you coach me? And I said I'm sorry, I don't do that. I coach entrepreneurs but I'm a director of ops, so that I mean these are small business owners, but we're talking multi, seven figures and usually with teams of 10 or more. So when you think small business owner. This was not solopreneurs, and I have these female solopreneurs in my DM.

Kelly: 5:53

The very next day, another one, totally unrelated hey, is there any time that you open your schedule for business coaching? And I said, I'm sorry, I don't do that. And then the third one came a couple of weeks later and then my business coach at the time said why are you doing that? I'm like well, I don't. How can I help someone who doesn't have a team? I don't know that my strategies does this apply? She said I just think you should do it. Why don't you just take a few? See if you like it?

Kelly: 6:17

And, camille, I fell in love with it because I realized these women are so driven and so hungry, but they're missing some key business tools in their toolbox and once they have those, oh my word, they are going to just like skyrocket right into the atmosphere. So I ended up then expanding a couple months later hey, I'll take up to 10. That filled within a week. And then I had a waiting list, and when the waiting list for one-on-one coaching got to be about 50 people, I was like this is not going to work. January 1st of 2024, I decided to close the fractional director of ops business and just go all in on this weird random walk like warriors page and see I have a tendency to jump off the cliff.

Kelly: 6:59

Pray that there was a net sometime before I hit the ground and I developed a group program and one thing led to another and it's been such an adventure. It's my favorite thing I've ever done. I'm never going to do anything else. It has that level of novelty. Every woman is different. Every business is different. I really like challenges. It's like a puzzle that my overactive brain gets to solve and I have the heart of a teacher. So being able to show up and help a woman scale to whatever that word means to her, I'm like getting choked up. I get so emotional about it. It's been so completely fulfilling.

Camille: 7:34

Oh, that's amazing and I love that it happened so organically for you, because that's where you know it's meant to be, because if people are coming to you and asking and you're thinking, oh, this wasn't in the plan, but this feels right, and this is scary, but I love it. So what? I'm curious for starting out and having those things that your business owners are missing. What are some of those key elements that show up time and time again for these business owners and those keys to success?

Kelly: 8:05

This is such a great question, and this is like that question where it tells me you're a podcast host who serves your audience well, because that's probably what they're curious about too. So I love this, and I just realized I never answered your social media questions, so I'll also answer that.

Kelly: 8:17

My brain squirrels all over the place, but when I launched my group program it sold out and I had 120 followers at the time and my coaching calendar was filled out as well. So when I say that I am all about well-aligned followers, that you show up and serve with all your little heart, it is the way, and so sort of like my claim to fame I'm doing air quotes, people can't see me but is helping women scale to six figure businesses with a thousand followers or less, like you do not need a hundred thousand followers to have consistent eight to $12,000 months. You just don't. That's the old way, that's the COVID post COVID way. Though that ship has passed, we can't grow by a hundred thousand followers with one great reel. That doesn't work like that anymore, and so this is one of those tools, kind of a segue here into answering your question.

Kelly: 9:09

I think a lot of women COVID sent us home right, like everybody is quarantining their home. And what are we doing? We're consuming social media content. We probably fell in love with some creators maybe some course creators or entrepreneurs or just influencers and I think with some women it sort of like lit this little fire of this would be amazing. She's saying she works four hours a day and she's got all of this money pouring in, and I think it gave people this new insight into being an entrepreneur. It doesn't have to mean starting a plumbing business or, you know, starting a house cleaning service, but you can actually do it from your home with the skill set that you have. I love that. I love that about post.

Kelly: 9:52

COVID it gave women like you and me so many more options than existed 10 years ago. The downside of that is that I think a lot of the people we looked up to, who then I'll teach you how to do what I did their students are not seeing that success because the landscape of social media has changed so drastically. I'm not taking anything away from those creators my hat is off to them. But 2020 to 2023-ish, maybe early 2024, that was like the golden age of social media. If you were getting on there and growing, your account was probably exploding pretty fast. I compare it to the California gold rush, is it? I mean, truly, there was like gold in the rocks and you could just pick it up. We are not there anymore, and I think that women, especially, are struggling with what do I do? I paid all this money for this course or this coach. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to grow. I'm showing up super consistently, but I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall at this point. I don't know what's, I don't know what's sticking, and so the main thing is how to grow, even with like, without being dependent on the algorithms. So that's one tool I would put in their toolbox. Another one is this our brains are very different than men's.

Kelly: 11:12

So, camille, when your husband, if he's working on putting something together he's putting a crib together he's just doing that. He's got the instructions, he's dialed in, and you're saying to him don't you hear someone's ringing the doorbell? The dog is barking? And he's just doing that. He's got the instructions, he's dialed in, and you're saying to him don't you hear someone's ringing the doorbell? The dog is barking, and he's like what? And you know we want to strangle them because we're like how can you not hear this?

Kelly: 11:30

Yeah, but that's because, if you were putting that same thing together, you're thinking about school drop off, as an hour later tomorrow you forgot to pack the one thing in the lunch that they asked for Science fair project is next week. You forgot to bring the cupcakes to the neighbor. The car needs to get in for an oil change. You're doing all of those things while you're doing the one thing. And so time management is a real big struggle for female entrepreneurs and it's not bad. It's just that we're different. And the only solutions that I see on Amazon and Barnes and Noble these systems are all designed by men and typically corporate America systems where there's teams and offices with doors on them and no kids around and no dogs.

Camille: 12:07

Oh, it's so different yeah.

Kelly: 12:08

And even the women coming out with these. It was typically just a regurgitation of something that was originally designed by men. And I don't know if you've heard like spaghetti brain, waffle brain. But men waffle brain, it's in compartments. So when he is putting together that crib or that piece of furniture, he is literally just in that compartment. He's not thinking about anything else.

Kelly: 12:29

Our brains are like spaghetti. Everything is all tangled up. It doesn't matter how hard we try those 15 or 30 minute blocks on our calendar, they just don't work for us. And when you add into the spaghetti brain, women have all the hats we wear as a small business owner. It's like we get overwhelmed. And so we have this tendency. We wake up in the morning and we're just scrambling as fast as we possibly can go, but we're not making forward momentum and we're not even totally sure what it means.

Kelly: 12:58

When people say income producing activities and needle movers, most of the women who come to me they're like I don't know what that means. Just tell me what to do and I'll do it. And so that's where you know being a director of operations it's the same skill set is there are certain activities that businesses need to do to be healthy and strong. How do we get that to work for a woman who's completely overwhelmed by all things home, family, health, faith, her business and then, when you break down the business, she's wearing 17 different hats, so she just feels like she's drowning. So the two main ones are algorithm proofing our businesses and figuring out a way to move through our week with intention where we can have fence posts around our work hours, where we're not thinking about work all the time. So a skill set that we need to learn is being able to shut off that switch in our brain so that when our kid is talking to us, we're not checked out thinking about our business, because that's really unhealthy. It's bad for our kids, but it's also bad for us, because another thing that men are different about is they don't struggle with guilt and we're plagued by it. We just we always feel like when we're showing up super strong in our business, we're failing our family, and when we're really on with our family, oh gosh, like all the wheels are coming off of my business and I'm a bad business owner. Those are really the main things that I'm seeing.

Kelly: 14:18

I would say a fourth one that I am seeing a lot, especially lately, is not understanding how to have clarity in our messaging where I'll say to someone what do you do? And she will go on for 13 minutes straight without taking a breath, because we tend to be more verbose. We struggle boiling down what we do in a way that's attractive to people, which can really leave so much money on the table and lead to a lack of sales. Because if you can't explain what you do clearly and specifically and in a very attractive way, I can't buy from you because I'm kind of confused about how you can help me. So I would say those are the main ones that I'm seeing and it breaks my heart because just putting a few tools in her toolbox, it really is the difference between staying stuck at a few hundred dollars a month and really being able to have consistent five figure months. Not everyone wants that, but I like that figure and that that, for a lot of American families, truly fundamentally changes that family's financial health.

Camille: 15:19

Absolutely yeah, I think that algorithm proofing your business. I think that is a piece where I would love to hear your personal experience with that, where you've had some incredible launches without needing to have this huge following. So I'd love to hear how you nurtured and created that so that people really felt like they could trust you, dm you and be like I need your help.

Kelly: 15:46

Yes, it really starts and I see this a lot with you and how your brand functions is you are somebody who cares about people. That cannot be faked. And so that's where I think you said this on a podcast a few podcasts ago, but you had said something like like attracts like, and I completely agree with that. So when you show up just authentically and you are a lover of people, people who will trust that and not think you're trying to manipulate them, they will come in kind and then it becomes this really beautiful, virtuous circle where I'm showing up and pouring into them totally for free. I don't believe in gatekeeping and they feel that from me, post COVID, there's just a lot of people that are burning and churning through their client base and hell hath no fury. Like a woman scorned you do wrong by someone who purchased from you, she telling everybody about that. And on the opposite end of it, when you wow someone's socks off, they tell everybody. And I really am a very meat and potatoes teacher.

Kelly: 16:46

So, to put teeth on this, on Thanksgiving um, last year, you know, thanksgiving, social media is kind of dead. Everybody's just eating pumpkin pie and drinking whatever, but all of a sudden, my, my, um, I usually have notifications off, but I had them on. My daughter was traveling. There was a whole thing to that. But I'm like, why am I picking up followers? Like it's hard to pick up followers if you didn't do something or put, and I'm thinking this is honestly a little weird, cause it was all back to back to back and I'm, and then all of a sudden they're getting my freebie and then all of a sudden one of them joined the wait list for my group program and I'm thinking this is honestly weird. I don't know if someone's punking me. And then one of my former clients was like hey, don't be freaked out. I'm sitting around the Thanksgiving table with my friends and family and I was just saying it changed my life, and so a few of them took out their phones.

Kelly: 17:32

And if that doesn't tell you an algorithm proof business, I don't know what would. If your people are having incredible experiences and loving on them is not enough, I'm going say It'll get you pretty far. You can have a pretty junky product and love people well, and they'll still buy from you. People are so hungry for that. But results there's too many digital courses, too many products and services that they're not getting results for people and so you're not gonna have that repeat business, you're not gonna have referrals flowing in. But when you do the one, two punch of really obsessing over your people and then having a product or service that just wows people, I don't think there's anything that can stop a business owner that commits their life to that. That's the biggest way to algorithm proof your business. I would say so.

Kelly: 18:18

I am very uncomfortable with revenue. Like people, I'm just like I would never have friends over and tell them how much my husband makes. But there's all these female business coaches that just literally post screenshots of their bank account and I get that it can be inspirational, but I'm just like really weirded out by that. So I'm going to talk in generalities. But I did have a multi five-figure launch, um with about 900 followers. Um, my email list at that time probably had a hundred people on it 150. So I want anyone, no matter what stage of business, to just be encouraged that when you have the right strategy, it's not a volume game and to me that's less work.

Kelly: 19:00

So I was on a podcast about that launch and I noticed after that podcast it's a pretty big podcast. I'm getting all these followers from it, which is great. I'm not going to complain. But I freaked the heck out because I looked at their accounts and some of them had a million followers, 1.2 million followers, 800,000. And I'm like oh my word, oh my word, I have 950 followers. I didn't go on Instagram stories the next day, which I coach for free every day in stories, camille. I was so freaked out. I'm like what, how can I help them? They're going to think I'm a fraud. But my husband said he's like, clearly on that podcast they heard that you can monetize a tiny audience and they are coming to you not for social media help. But they're like help me.

Kelly: 19:42

How are you doing when I and that was actually the truth. And then I've had two launches since then. Both of them were also multi-five figure launches. Right now I'm sitting right around 1300 followers on Instagram. I'm not the coach to help you go viral. It's. I mean, in six months I don't know what did I add Three 400 people. So it's not, the growth is incremental.

Kelly: 19:59

But I will say this about social media growth If you posted about me tomorrow and said I had a great conversation with Kelly and you tagged me and I just pick up one follower, that is worth a thousand followers from going viral. And this is what I mean. When someone is obsessed with your brand and they've built a really good community in their brand, your no like and trust from I don't know about this person to I wanna buy what she has is I'm holding my fingers about two inches apart. It's this long when you pick up followers because of a reel of you dancing around lip syncing nothing wrong with that. There's some strategy there not my own personal, but you know, teach his own. But if you held that same piece of string, tie it around the moon, because that's about how long it's going to take you to nurture and build and get them to the place where they trust you, because they don't know anything about you.

Kelly: 20:59

And so one of the ways that I've done what I've done is I post content that's never going to go viral. It's high strategy, it's educational, it's not share it with your business bestie and die laughing because it's so relatable. I don't post a lot of relatable content. I post good content. There's nothing wrong with posting relatable content, helping them feel seen and all that stuff. It's just when I go to bed at night. I only feel good if I felt like I really served in a really profound way, where I feel like opening up a vein and just pouring into people. And when I don't do that, I don't actually like how it makes me feel as a human. But educational content doesn't go viral, but what it does is people will repost and say this is my business coach or I'm going to take her success squad in the fall.

Kelly: 21:43

And even if it's three followers, camille, I am not lying when I say most of the time they get on the wait list for my group program within 24 hours. So you think about that string analogy. I would rather the string be two inches long than all the way to the moon and back long. It's less work to do it the way that I'm doing it, but I think, as women you said this so beautifully on a podcast a couple of podcasts ago but we are designed to care and nurture, and so that's why the cold DMs, the cold prospecting, doing things that make us feel really cruddy, it's not the way I prefer to lean into. The way that I was designed, which is to be a nurturer, to care about people.

Kelly: 22:26

I really feel good about my business Truth, like from the bottom of my heart, camille, like I've never been in a place like this where I just feel it's so authentic and even if it's not flashy, even if it's not sexy, even if it's not going to go viral, I just I go to bed every night and I'm like this is freaking amazing. Like I can't believe I'm getting to build like this and getting DMs from people. Hey, I can't afford any of your stuff, but you're changing my life. Hey, my husband and I just went on our first date in six years. You literally are changing my marriage Like I.

Kelly: 22:56

I'm crying right now. I mean, I cry over it. I'm like this is just such a blessing and no matter what. I mean. I'm about to see a business coach, but whether someone's a virtual assistant or a social media manager, or you had that attorney on it, doesn't matter what industry you're in. Caring about your people and having a kick butt product or service is such a rarity. I feel like the bar is so low, especially in the U? S right now, that if women will just lean into the way we actually are designed to function anyway, I think the sky is the limit for us in the twenties and thirties.

Camille: 23:31

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Camille: 24:31

I love this perspective. It's giving me a lot of thought because, having been in social creation for so long, I get so burnt out of doing it the rat race way where. That's why I'm like well, I have someone who posts for me and I'm not on it all the time because it just feels icky to me sometimes. So where you're saying getting on and doing education and making it valuable, but not like that you're trying to be viral, that really rings true with me. I'm like I should show up more with my face because I feel like sometimes I've been in this world for so long that I'll take a step back and just protect my peace of like I don't need to be on there every day, like I can, you know, do it from this back door, this other way, or having these really meaningful conversations through the podcast.

Camille: 25:24

I love this. So I love that you're treating social media that way, because that totally rings with me of that relationship of trust, that one-on-one that you really care that. That is where those relationships build. So I'm curious for actually launching the product, the service, the group coaching or the runway. What does that look like in terms of how you roll that out to have such a successful launch?

Kelly: 25:53

This is a highly strategic question, so I'm gonna try not to squirrel brain and do this methodically, which is almost painful for me, but I'm going to try to lay this out, okay. So one of the things, one of the biggest compliments I get from my group program girls, is that I'm a product of my product. They see me with my feet up at noon on a Friday sitting outside having a glass of wine with my husband. They they see me living this out and they always laugh because the day the cart closes on the group program, the day, camille, I'm telling you I'll say hey, doors are closed, you can't get in. Next round is in six months. Here's the wait list. They crack up. They're like you are filling that wait list literally the same day that we're launching, and that's how I do it.

Kelly: 26:37

I compare it to a drone versus a 747. So if you have low ticket which was super popular 2020 to 2023, you it was like a drone in your hand. You didn't need a runway. You could post an adorable reel, comment the word blank and you could sell 100 of those because it's low ticket, higher ticket and high ticket is let's define the terms right. So for some people it's over 500. Some people it's over 500. Some people it's over 1,000. Some people it's over 2,000. So my program's around $2,000. I consider that mid-ticket, but some people consider it high ticket. The bigger the ticket, the longer the runway. You're talking 747, baby. So it's not a drone, and what I see people do wrong with their launches is they're trying to launch a 747 from the palm of their hand, meaning they just start showing up in a complete tizzy and panic five days before cart open. It does not work that way. So to me, the success squad is a 747. And so she needs a long runway.

Kelly: 27:29

I have a goal to talk about the success squad every single week. I run it three times a year. Because it's running three times a year, it's be. I'm always playing with it, but it's between an eight and 12 week program, give or take probably a little bit over half the year. I'm running the program and remember, I'm not tooting my horn, but I only care about the results. It's a results heavy program. So every week I'm getting DMs. Omg, I literally just doubled my revenue, or like even just Kelly. I colored with my three-year-old today and I haven't done that in over six months. I'm mortified, but also I'm crying. I'm so happy I screenshot those, put them in stories. Here's the wait list. Here's the wait list. So the social proof is such a powerful thing, especially with the results driven program. So once a week, all the time when it's not running, I am pointing to that wait list and filling up that wait list.

Kelly: 28:19

I did invest in an amazing conversion copywriter because, in my opinion, we're all too close to our own business. We don't always communicate it as clearly as we should. I believe that a conversion copywriter should not use AI and they should interview past clients and those are deal breakers for me. If they're not willing to do that, I don't want to talk to them because it's a time investment. A lot of people don't want to do that. I don't want to talk to them Because it's a it's a time investment. A lot of people don't want to do it.

Kelly: 28:40

So her name is Gina Whitehouse. Fantastic, she redid the sales page for the success squad and it's so much better. It's just it reads really well. I think that actually is part of why the launches went well. I'm always filling that waitlist and then, like a 747 about to take off, it goes faster as it's about to lift up off the runway. So four weeks out, I start talking about it two times a week, talking about the wait list, talking about the wins I really am so heavy in the future and the feelings I forget to talk about the features. I've had people take the program You're going to laugh, camille but they'll say there's live calls. I didn't know that, like, I literally give her the details but they hear the results and they're like whatever it is.

Camille: 29:21

Whatever it is, I'm in.

Kelly: 29:22

Yeah, do I need to fly to your house? I'm not totally sure. What do we do here? So they're always pleasantly in a good way surprised at what's in there, because I really don't talk about the features a lot. People don't care about that. They don't care Tuesdays at 12 PM, it doesn't matter if they're investing, they're going to make space for that thing, whatever that thing is. And then, two weeks out, I'm every day, I'm talking about it every day.

Kelly: 29:43

I'm obviously a very excitable person, but I would say to anyone who has a launch-based business your enthusiasm sells. Stop talking with your lips a millimeter apart. Show your teeth, show the sparkle. So I'm always like I want to see the teeth and I want to see the sparkle in your eye. Light me up, even if I don't need it. I think that we get nervous to sell, and so our body language actually makes it uncomfortable for people to watch it. So I like expansive, like put your shoulders back. This is how meat and potatoes I am. I'm like literally telling people how to present themselves.

Kelly: 30:13

And then I do cart open, cart close On my size program. Cart open should probably be two weeks, but I don't want to launch for two weeks. It's taxing. It's emotional. I would be lying if I didn't say there's highs and lows. I beat myself up sometimes. It doesn't always go the way I wanted it to go, and so I limit it to a week and I don't work on the weekends ever during launch. So three times a year I'll work Saturdays, but even during cart open, I never work Sundays. I'm a recovered workaholic. That is a hard and fast rule. I don't do chores on Sunday. I don't cook, I don't do my business. Sunday is like my the young people call it rotting day, like I don't do anything besides go to church and hang out with my family. I do nothing, um, but so I really. I basically launched a bigger program in six days. One of the days I'm radio silent.

Kelly: 30:58

There's nothing there's nothing going out for my business. It's just the way that I choose to to to present myself. It's it's important to me. I've made a lot of mistakes in my life being a workaholic. I've often put work before my family, and so when I started to build Walk Like Warriors, I literally wrote down a set of rules for myself that I will honor and never break, and that's one of them. I don't work holidays, I don't work on Sundays and I don't work the last week of the year ever. So like. There's just these little rules that I made for myself.

Kelly: 31:27

But essentially, if people will be showing the proof that this works, have a lot of clarity in their messaging, always be filling the wait list and then treat it like a 747, not a drone as you get closer, what essentially you want is it would literally be impossible for anyone following or subscribed to not know that you're launching. That's what you're going for, and I'll have people say but Kel, if I do that, I'm going to lose followers. Can we talk about how ironic that is for a second? The reason that you have your email list is drum roll. It's to make sales. I would think right, cause if I just wanted to email people, I would just write letters Like I don't really understand. I, my Instagram, my threads, youtube all of it is to serve the purpose of building my business. So to then not sell only because of numbers that don't lead to sales, that, to me, just blows my mind. I actually, if I'm coaching someone, I encourage them to lose 1% of their followers during launch. The reason because women do better when it can be gamified. So my girls would be like I didn't lose any followers today, but I promise I'm gonna lose some tomorrow. And I'm like yes, girl, you have to push. You have to stop being afraid and getting your feelings hurt If someone here's the thing, camille, because you do so much high value content, I mean, this podcast is unbelievable. Oh, you're sweet, thank you.

Kelly: 32:46

Second, you try to sell and they're like ew, gross, oh, my gosh, how dare she? They're never buying from you, so you have to have the one-two punch of pouring into them. But then when you sell, it's almost impossible to lose followers. Like most of my people are like get it, girl, you deserve it. You deserve it. You deserve to have this launch because they see that 52 weeks a year I will there's very little I will not do for my community. And so when you've got that, you have to stop being afraid. Like people will say I've never.

Kelly: 33:14

I'll say how many subscribers do you lose during cart open? None, okay. Well, you're doing it wrong. I'm just telling you. You have to lose some, and it's also a good thing because you want to call, you want to call the herd right. So you end up with too many freebie takers. If you don't sell and push hard sometimes and if, as long as you're doing your part of the deal, which is really showing up and not gatekeeping and pouring into your community, they don't care when you sell and push hard. But I think women really struggle with launching. They don't give themselves a long enough runway and then, when it's time to push, they hold so much back and they leave so much on the table and I want cart closed to be. There's nothing left in the gas tank. She's running on fumes. That, to me, is a really beautiful launch and one that win or lose. I can sleep well because I know I really did put my all into it.

Camille: 34:03

That's amazing. What would you say from your launches? They've become more and more successful. What are some things you learned from maybe the first one or two times that you launched, that you changed or modified three, four?

Kelly: 34:16

In the interest of customer obsession it is, so it's probably it's dripped out weekly. I'm trying to think of how many hours of videos, lessons, all of it, but essentially I've burned it down every single time. I've run it and started again based on the feedback, and every time I've done that it's probably cost me, I would say, between 100 and 150 hours of time to redo the entire thing, and I did that the first three times. So it's gotten better and better to the point where there's not really a lot that they're telling me like oh, I'm confused about that. So we got that dialed in and they tell everyone about it because they see how hard I'm working to make this as impactful as possible. And I appreciate you saying they've gotten better and better. But one of the things that's really important to me with my brand is integrity.

Kelly: 35:04

So fall didn't sell out, but it was. I mean it was like a $30,000 launch. I mean I was stunned. I literally had my hand over my mouth. January we opened the doors to the waitlist. It sold out in eight hours. Wow, I had no words. My VA was here. We were like jumping up and down. It was crazy.

Kelly: 35:24

But the spring which I just ran, which again multi five-figure launch. It didn't sell out. So I always want to be honest with people that it's not always up and to the right. Spring launches tend to be softer launches for any business. It's a pretty hard time to fill. But people were like, oh my gosh, you sold out, you sold. These are all their names on the wall behind me and I was like, no, no, no, some of those are alumni. The alumni can come back at us. I try to go above and beyond to be like hey, hey, hey, it's not always. It gets better and better. Um, I was predicting that it's. I basically got the exact number that I had predicted. Did I want it to sell out on opening day to the early birds? Yes, it's so much easier and more fun to fill the program when you're like it sells out every time you've got to get in. But I won't be able. I a lot of it for me is sleeping at night, so I will not be able to sleep at night if I have come across, as it's only gotten better.

Kelly: 36:14

I made a huge oopsie with my waitlist. I put too many images, screenshots of testimonials in those emails and I got put in spam jail for my launch. So my launch emails in every round before were about 80 to 90% open rates and for the spring launch I had a 12% open rate because of something I did, and I know that the image to text ratio matters. I'm very careful about that with my newsletters, but for some reason when I was creating those launch emails it just logic went out the window and I was like, oh, this one's so good and I'm pulling all these in, and some of those emails had 10 screenshots of testimonials. So every major email provider put me in spam jail and none of those emails got delivered to my waitlist. So it's just things like that. You know, life happens.

Kelly: 36:59

I think the key to being a successful entrepreneur is grit getting punched in the face, keep getting up. But also a growth mindset is yes, did I get a little teary eyed? Yeah, I was stunned that I made that kind of mistake. As seasoned as I am in business, I was embarrassed. I was. I felt bad because my VA was so excited and it was just not a great launch for I mean, I, you know it. Just it was rough for like an hour and then it was. My first thought was cause I have a monthly membership after you grab graduate the group program. Oh, this is going to be such great content for them. Like I immediately just and that like a growth mindset is it's okay to feel sad. It's not like toxic positivity or anything, but it's always. What can I learn from this?

Camille: 37:37

How is?

Kelly: 37:37

this experience going to make me better. So I think if you've got grit and you've got a growth mindset and I do, and so it's not always up and to the right as a business owner and I think it's being able to take those disappointing moments it's okay to feel the feelings, but not like to me personally. My limits like 24 hours. I'm allowed to wallow for 24 hours but it's like, girl, pick yourself up. Nothing bad happened, You're still fine and just keep going. So I don't know what happens with my launches. I think it's a little bit all over the place. January in the education field is kind of our Superbowl. It's a little bit easier to fill programs in January. Fall is another great time. Spring, I think, might just always be soft, but the ones in there are having such great wins that I just feel like it's worth it, no matter what.

Camille: 38:21

Yeah, I can relate to that a hundred percent because I feel like, as women, we have seasons where we're ready to buckle in, and I've experienced the same thing fall, beginning of the year, great spring, it's harder. So I totally see that too. I'm curious. I was actually presenting to a group of women at my house on it was just a couple of nights ago, and you say you have ADHD, and one of the women there was like I'm starting this piercing business, I am doing this, but it's so hard for me to stay focused. I get these ideas. I, you know squirrel.

Camille: 38:54

She's like it's obvious you don't. And I'm like well, I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I do, but I don't know what is it about? Or skill sets, or advice you would give to her of how you have built such a successful, systematic business, where you're like I do this twice a week, I do this. It's very you've ironed this out. Where it's, you're doing the things and it seems like you're doing it with purpose and sequence and you and it's a rhythm. How are you doing that with ADHD?

Kelly: 39:24

Yes, and if you saw just to the right, my closet in my office, you I have to step over a three foot high pile to be able to get to my bed chair, which is where I have like my Bible and prayer reading in the morning Like I have to like step over piles.

Kelly: 39:36

It's my personal life is a mess. But some of the credit goes to my parents. They were pretty type A. They demanded excellence not in an unhealthy way, so I'm not saying they demanded perfection, but they did demand that we gave it our all and I think that in any other environment I wouldn't be able to function at a high level. But it made them proud. And then I started to realize I feel good when I'm bringing in my very best. I feel good, but I did learn that the systems of the world don't help me. They never have, and I spent way too many years of my life beating the crap out of myself because why can't I just get this? And I would do the little color coded 30 minute things on my calendar and then I would look at the clock and I'm seven minutes behind and then I would seriously feel like a panic attack.

Camille: 40:17

Oh yeah.

Kelly: 40:18

It was like and then I I remember taking a step back. This was right after I pivoted from director of ops to this and I was like what am I doing? Nobody is making me live like that that's how my time mastery system was developed was like. And I think you do something similar in that you theme your days. So I was just like okay, I know, as a director of ops, there are six areas of business that make it holistically healthy. Most women just focus on social media, let's be honest. But if these six are strong, it's almost impossible for that business owner not to be successful. So I'm like I bet you there's a way for me to manipulate this so that one day of the week is devoted to this. One day of the week is kind of devoted to this. And obviously I'm saying six, but I work five days. But there's a couple that are lighter and I'm like I bet you I could put those two together. And then there's some stuff that doesn't happen.

Kelly: 41:06

So I just started to play around with it and an ADHD business owner said to me she's like Kelly, I got to ask you I mean, how do you you're so high functioning, how are you doing this? And Camille. I was embarrassed. I was like, okay, I'm going to share my screen but don't laugh. And she's like I'm not going to laugh. But essentially it's kind of you picture like a spreadsheet, but like a pretty one, a fun one. So I like novelty, so I change the way it looks all the time, but I also need those dopamine hits.

Kelly: 41:31

So part of our deal, part of our problem, is we don't get the same satisfaction from doing what I call boring things as normal, like neuro, like normal people. If they clean the house, they take us, take a step back and they're like, oh, this is good, I'm not. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is 7000 tasks. You know what? I'm just going to go to Trader Joe's Like I just I don't when I'm facing stuff that I don't want to do.

Kelly: 41:56

I just decided to do something else. So this system I made little dropdown boxes in a Google sheet where it's everything is on red R-E-D and then as I do it, it changes from incomplete to complete and this is psychology says you can give yourself little hits of dopamine like that. So as I do them, it's kind of like that whole just feeling like you crumpled up a post-it note and threw it in the garbage Cause you did the task on it, um, and then, when I shared it with her, she said would you share that with me? I'd like, I'd like to just try it. And how honestly I was mortified. I'm like this is so stupid. People are going to think I'm three because it's color-coded everything.

Camille: 42:31

I love it.

Kelly: 42:32

Yeah, she like a week later she said she said I mean she was crying. She said I went from working 70 hours a week, I'm working like 20. I don't even understand, but part of the system is is you sit down and you know exactly what to do and it's a workflow and you do it and it usually only takes one of this time because you're training your brain. On Monday we do these and because it's only Monday, every day kind of feels fresh. It's not trying to do the same things every day, but I think it's one of those things where a lot of our success is hidden in the weird parts of ourselves that we think wouldn't help anyone else, but they're the exact things that help people like us. So I would say to her she needs a system like that. She needs to kind of feed in some some dopamine, that you know what. The reason the men's systems don't work for me is I don't get rewarded for doing any of the stuff, and so it feels like a slog and so I put it off. This is why. So this is being recorded.

Kelly: 43:32

Obviously, in the spring I'm seeing this everywhere Business owners are really in trouble with their taxes, and it's because, first of all, entrepreneurship tends to attract people with ADD and ADHD. I think it's a superpower. We just have to learn to get around like our kryptonite parts of it. But it's because no one loves doing that in the week to week, and so we let it pile up. We let it pile up and then all of a sudden we're pulling our hair out and we're crying in the shower because we've made such a mess of our finances, and so I figured out a way to make that fun for myself. So it's really about how can I make it fun. Also, how can I make it pretty but also make it so that it feels doable and achievable? And I would also encourage her to use an analog timer. I don't want my women using timers on their phones. Why? Timer goes off. We hit stop. We're scrolling reels. Two hours go by.

Kelly: 44:19

Oh, no what was I supposed to be. So I use literally an analog timer. I'll show it to you and it's a disappearing one. It's designed for people with ADHD, so the circle actually disappears as the clock ticks down. The circle actually disappears as the clock ticks down and that's been profoundly helpful, and part of it's because of Parkinson's law. So our work expands to fill the time we give it.

Kelly: 44:38

And one of the problems with entrepreneurship is we have quote unquote all day, and so all these tasks, like these 15 tasks, take six hours. But if we use the timer and did them in an ordered way, they would take 50 minutes. It's just no one listening to me believes that it will, because we're so used to being distracted and ping ponging. So it's just developing systems. She'll find her way. But what I would really encourage her is understand that the books at Barnes and Noble and on Amazon they're not going to help you. They are not designed for people like us, and that's okay. We just we make our own systems and it's incredibly freeing.

Kelly: 45:16

When I was in corporate I didn't have a problem like I have now, but that's because you're operating. The meeting starts at 11. This is at 1145, like you're by the clock. In entrepreneurship. That all went out the window and I very quickly realized this ain't going to work for me. I either will not be able to grow my business or it'll grow. But I'm going to be working seven days a week, 12 hours a day, not enjoying family movie night. Neither of those options sounded appealing to me, so I just broke the system, made my own way, and the wild thing is it works for so many other people, so that's been a blessing.

Camille: 45:49

Yeah, that's amazing. Well, this has all been so helpful. I want to get that little analog timer. That is so cute. I love that. It's rainbow too, For those of you watching on the video you can see that, but maybe we can find it. Link it below. Tell our audience where they can find you and learn from you and I know many of them well, because I am so excited to do the same.

Kelly: 46:12

Thank you so much. So the website is walklikewarriorscom. Over on Instagram. Somebody had that name, so there's underscores between the words. So walk like warriors I coach for free and Instagram stories Monday through Friday, but they're just underscores between them. If you'll know you found the right one. It's a bright yellow. Yellow is my favorite color color behind my headshot, so if you land on, that page.

Camille: 46:33

You're in the right place. Awesome. And for someone with ADHD, I'm curious with posting on Instagram and doing stories. What is your schedule and strategy there before I let you go, because I think that that would be interesting to know.

Kelly: 46:46

So good? Yes, we do well with a few gentle frameworks, but not where we feel like a prison.

Camille: 46:51

Right so.

Kelly: 46:53

I basically 5% of my of my workflow. It's called time mastery. I do for free and Instagram stories, and so on Monday, it's admin day. I get in every Monday. Hey, hey, it's Monday, it's admin day. Here's some things you can be thinking about and working on. Or the following Monday, I'll say this is why we do this like this. I don't have meetings on Monday. Why? Because it makes it really easy to have three day weekends when I want them. So then on Tuesday, hey, it's content creation day, and so that kind of gives me a nice gentle framework, and if I don't feel like doing that that day, then I just talk about whatever random things are on my on my heart to share.

Kelly: 47:29

I think, as I'm, I'm so close to the people I'm serving, I'm coaching so much that a lot of times it's driven by. I just get off a call and I'm like, hey, I wanna talk about this. Women are not packing the numbers in their business. This is gonna break your business. We don't wanna go from the gut, we wanna make sure we're measuring, and so a lot of it is free flowing. So this might resonate with you.

Kelly: 47:49

I like gentle boundaries that nothing bad happens if I break them, and so I do that. That actually, time mastery plays so well into Instagram stories because, if nothing else, I know I can talk like that, but some of your listeners might be like, nice for you, I don't have that. Anyone can do that. If you're a health coach, monday, just you don't have to be like it's Monday, it's my Costco find day, just on Monday. You share your Costco find On find day just on Monday. You share your Costco find On Tuesday. You're sharing something, a stretch you can do from your desk for three like you don't have to announce it, but it just gives you this nice rhythm where you're never like uh.

Kelly: 48:27

What do I do today? Yeah, cause that's where we get frozen. Totally. Yes, exactly, but it is. It's very, very helpful if it helps people, like when I'm first to be doing.

Camille: 48:33

Oh, that's helpful. And then are you posting in the feed a certain amount of times, or what do you do there?

Kelly: 48:39

Yes, I am. I believe in batching. Research shows that batching leads to better content. So that's a big thing for me is I'm all about strategy, but also batching empowers me. I don't know how you are, but I always have a couple of days of the month where I want to burn down my business, my house and everybody so don't look at me.

Camille: 48:58

I don't want to be on camera Exactly.

Kelly: 49:00

So it serves me well in that I just I mean, on Monday I was a very low energy day. I had content ready to pump out, I didn't have to do anything. Everything's on autopilot in my business and it was 1201. And I was drinking Cabernet Sauvignon and watching Pride and Prejudice. And I looked at the clock and I'm like this is wild that I get to do this.

Kelly: 49:19

But I believe in rhythms of work, play and rest. So I work. When it's time to work, I work really hard, but when it's not time to be working, I play really hard. And so following this rhythm, this pattern to my week, has been incredibly empowering. I think it's why I don't have to think about work when I'm not working, because I put so many systems into place. So I'm batching, but we had talked before the interview.

Kelly: 49:43

I am, I'm I'm really strongly considering a social media strategist firm agency, something, because I think my Instagram content is in stories is good. I have no strategy for the feed. I mean, I batch but I'm not. If I want to grow, it's probably time to call in an expert, because I have sort of this cavalier attitude toward it, like, ah, I don't need that, I'm just going to keep doing my thing, but the business is growing and scaling so fast. I really I love like your work with virtual assistants. We have to stop doing so much stuff ourselves. So VA, like my virtual assistant, it's like it needs to be people's first hire, in my opinion. I just there's such a demand for good ones, but I think it's I'm getting near the time where maybe offloading some social media I'll never give over the stories. I love being in Instagram stories, but the feed itself just not my favorite. I'll create the content, I just want someone else to schedule it.

Camille: 50:33

Yeah, I'm right there with you, all right, Well, perfect. Let's finish this up with the two questions I always ask, which is what are you reading, watching or listening to, and a motherhood moment that you'd like to share Reading?

Kelly: 50:47

I just finished the best book on sales that I have read in my life and that is saying something because I'm a voracious reader. It was written in the 1920s so some of it is dated, but it is like the best sales strategies by Frank Betcher and it's called how I raised myself from failure to success in selling. I annotated. I shouldn't have even written in it because every paragraph is written on now, so it's hard to read a fantastic book, good old fashioned selling strategy. There. Keith and I are watching Daredevil right now, and so that's been good. I'm not a huge Marvel, dc, I don't know about that stuff, but it's actually pretty good and I know. So the motherhood question right, I'm going to share this. Okay, I'm going to try not to cry.

Kelly: 51:29

My kids are teens and young adults. It's by far my favorite stage, my absolute favorite stage to be a mom. But last night my one son he's married. He lives like 30 minutes north of here he needed to pick something up from our house. My daughter, who's engaged it, just they all converged here and we had a meal together and I just looked around the kitchen and I'm like this is it? Just, I don't believe in like your kids have to call you every day or anything like that. But it was just this profound moment of my dad says it's like a bird feeder where they leave, they come back, they leave, they come back.

Kelly: 52:04

I'm really at an interesting point in my life where my adult kids really love to hang out here. My teenagers do. It's just like I never know when it's going to happen, but it's just magical that I'm not begging and pleading for them to be at every holiday. It's just more they will say, hey, can I come out and we'll have a meal together at random. And to the people with little kids, every second of the behind the scenes work is so worth it, cause if you want what I have now, it's in all of those hidden secret moments as a mommy that stuff nobody sees. That leads to healthy outcomes in teenagers and young adults. But it's just been like we'll play card games, board games. We've moved. I know not everyone likes this, but we've moved more into friend territory. They don't need to be parented anymore when they're on their own. It is more like mutual respect, and putting in the time to raise people that you actually love to hang out with is so worth it so yeah, that's the ultimate goal.

Camille: 52:59

I'm so, so happy for you it like is making me emotional because that, if I could like I tell my parents that's how I was raised is we want to be together and spend that time, and nothing no amount of money, success, anything like that can take the place of that. So thank you for sharing that. And, oh my gosh, you gave us so much good information. I'm just so, so grateful. Thank you for being on the show and to everyone listening. Thank you for being here and we'll check in with you next time.

Camille: 53:32

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Call Me CEO. Anytime that you leave a rating or review, it is a big help to us. So please do that and don't forget to subscribe. And if you are looking for systematizing your business, bringing in team members, helping you to create more white space in your business that is something that I help people with every single day. I love it so much you can reach out to me at camillewalkerco. That's my Instagram and I also have a second Instagram at call me CEO podcast. My website is camillewalkerco. Thank you again. We'll see you next time. Hey CEOs, thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know, in a comment, in a five-star review, you could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram at callmeCEOPodcast, and remember you are the boss.