247:The Hidden Link: Transforming Your Mindset and Body for Success

Kirsten: 0:00

Like that is the magical key and it sounds so hokey and woo-woo but it truly is. And you can do all of the mindset work you want, but if you don't feel it, if there's not a genuine emotional connection to it, it's just gonna feel like this thing you're reaching for that's outside of yourself and not something that you're in the process of creating.

Camille: 0:27

So you wanna make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know this is Call Me CEO. Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. This is your host, Camille Walker. It is so good to have you. Thank you so much for being here and, as always, we celebrate women who are building amazing businesses and also mothering amazing families.

Camille: 1:01

So today I'm so thrilled to have Kristen Tyrrel with us on the show. We are going to be talking about how to emotionally regulate, build up that emotional IQ, but also how to build sustainable, healthy businesses amidst the chaos, which that's what we're all here for. Right, and what's really fun is that, Kirsten, I said Kristen, when I first introduced you. Now I'm realizing that that's terrible. That is dyslexia. I don't have dyslexia, but we'll say that that's what it is. Kirsten, I apologize. We are so, so lucky to have you because you have so much experience and you have so much information to bring to the table, and I wish I had pressed record before we had started because we were already getting into so much good, delicious information. So here we are. I pressed record. You're not going to miss any more, Kirsten, thank you so much for being on the show today, of course, I was sitting here as you're introducing me and I'm like why have we not done this sooner?

Kirsten: 2:06

This feels like such a natural fit and we've both been in this space for a long time, which is what we're just talking about, and it's just. I'm happy to be here and I'm also sad it wasn't sooner. And that's not like your fault, that's just. You know, it's probably my problem for not getting out there and sharing all of this goodness. I think it's easy to get trapped in our own little world and do our thing and stay in our zone, but I just love you. I had you on one of the podcasts that I host Millionaire University a couple weeks ago and it feels like no time has passed since then, so I'm glad we get another chance to talk.

Camille: 2:37

Me, too. I think that this conversation needs to keep going. In fact, we're like we need to put together a mastermind. How do we get our minds together more? So fun. So, yeah, please tell our audience more, because there is so much breadth of knowledge here and the journey that you've had. Tell our audience about you. Where do you live your family, because I always like to include that in the context. And then also, how did you get where you are in your journey of coming to this place of emotional intelligence? Okay, so how?

Kirsten: 3:05

long do we have Like four hours?

Kirsten: 3:08

No luckily, if you want the deeper dive, I'm in the process of writing a book, so it shares like a lot of this in a little bit more depth, but I'll just give you the CliffsNotes version. I have three kids. We live in Southern Utah, st George, so in the desert, and we had like 80 degree weather over the weekend. It was wonderful. I know I know this is why we live here only for about two months of the year. We like this is the best place ever to live.

Kirsten: 3:35

But I was homeschooling my kids for about five years and it was mostly because I had been on that entrepreneurial journey for like 10 and my oldest is 15. My youngest is almost 11. And I think when you step into this world of time freedom and realizing, oh my gosh, we don't have to go through the system, like I can create whatever I want, I projected a little bit of that onto our family and onto our kids and said like, hey, we don't have to go, just be in school for eight hours, let's all be together, let's go on trips, let's have fun. We have the financial stability to do that. So we homeschooled for five years and it was a year before COVID shut the world down, so that's when I started.

Camille: 4:07

And it felt like you already got a head start. That's awesome.

Kirsten: 4:10

Yeah, our life, like everybody, felt the change during that time, but ours was so much less affected because we were already working from home. We already had our kids home, so I was grateful for that leg up. And then recently which is kind of part of my story as I get into the emotional intelligence side of things and just going through this level up in my life in November I decided to enroll them in a private school here because we just kind of hit that point where I had gotten so lost and this is just what we do and this is our lifestyle that I hadn't stepped back and said what do we really want? What's going to help our family thrive? How are we going to get along better? What needs to change? And I didn't immediately jump to that. It actually came with a lot of prayer and thought, just figuring out what. I hadn't asked myself that question for so long what do I really want with my life? How do I want to spend my time? And I tried at first just to do the self-work which I always feel like is the most important thing, and then, after I had done everything I could, it really had to come as a family discussion and saying to the kids, like what do you guys want? Are you enjoying the way this is flowing? And so we ultimately ended up with them in a private school.

Kirsten: 5:13

My husband and I had worked together from home for a while and he even a couple of years ago, was like I want to rejoin the workforce, like I want to go and contribute, I want to be back in that. The thing we think is awful as entrepreneurs the nine to five grind. And he wanted that. He wanted association and to use his talents differently. So now I'm like home alone, which is so weird after five years of everybody being around, and I love it and it's so fun and I get to spend my days doing things like this, having beautiful conversations, coaching women. It's like the dream life. It really is. It sounds so like you know, uh, like not real, but it is, and I think that's a choice.

Camille: 5:57

Oh, I love that the idea of creating the life with intention, because you can't identify what it is that you want unless you sit down and think what is it that I want to create for myself and what are the steps to getting there. And I love that you just laid that out, because obviously those seasons and those desires change and it's okay for those desires to change and that you followed that new path.

Kirsten: 6:18

I was doing some research. The other day I had a client come to me and she was having this question about like why was it so easy when my kids were little to build my business? And now I'm struggling? And the idea that came up with that was you're using an old map and new territory. And I think sometimes we do that. We're like navigating what we know, we are capable of doing things and we're still referencing something that used to work. And it doesn't mean that we're awful or that we can't do it or we're not capable. It just means we have a totally new landscape and we need different guidance, we need different tools, and it's okay to stop and say, wait a minute, like where, where are we right now? Cause we were headed here and we can't plan the how, we can't plan every single micro stop.

Kirsten: 6:57

We don't know what life is going to bring, and so I think it's really important to step back and have some intention, like I said, with that, and not just keep reacting and pushing and forcing, which is what I feel like I did for the last like year of homeschool is just like well, we're homeschoolers, right, I have this identity that we are homeschooling family. I'm a homeschool mom and this is what we just have to make it work, and I think ultimately that will lead to a lot more tension and stress than you need to really give yourself. And you need to detach. You need to detach from the stories that are attached to whatever you have been building that reality on. You know, and it sounds so simple, but it requires work, like it was one of the hardest choices for me to make to change what had been the norm, and it just had to.

Kirsten: 7:38

I had to require, like stepping back and zooming out and saying is this even like making us happy, is this even what I want? And being brave enough to determine what I really did want. And I wish I'd had that sooner, because and I didn't really get into, like my backstory, but I've been an entrepreneur as long as I've been a mom. I think a lot of us do. We fall into that category, right, maybe even before becoming a mom, and I think I was. I just didn't realize I was an entrepreneur and so I've always had something going, since I've had children and I started a podcast. We were just talking about this like before people knew what podcasts were and how to listen to them.

Camille: 8:11

This is crazy, I don't. Nine years ago. Nine years ago, yeah, tell us about that.

Kirsten: 8:15

It's so wild. I was actually a photographer at the time and I had some people hire me. They were like we need last minute photos for our podcast cover art. And so I met them at the beach and I had been researching, like how do we take corporate headshots of a couple on the beach? They show up in like jeans and they're jumping around and I'm like what do these people do? And they were in my. They went to the same church I did, so I got a chance to get to know them a little more and they were starting a podcast. So this was for their cover art called 8 Minute Millionaire.

Kirsten: 8:42

I didn't know how to listen. I thought you had to pay. Do you remember when you said to pay per song on iTunes? Oh yeah, like 99 cents a song. So I had never listened because I thought podcasts were the same. Turns out they were free. So I started binging their show and very quickly was like I should do this.

Kirsten: 8:58

I became aware of John Lee Dumas and he was talking about how to monetize a podcast. So I was like I don't know what this is going to look like, but I'm just going to try it. So I jumped in and found my niche. I wanted to speak to moms. It was kind of what I wanted. I needed more connection, I wanted to hear from inspiring women, and so I just started. And I look back now and I'm like man, I can't believe like that girl did that because there was no information, there's very limited information. My husband had to set my equipment up that's what I got for Christmas that year and I just dove in. I emailed or asked 10 different women that I thought would all say no and I think they all said yes and I was like, okay, we're doing this. And I did five episodes a week for several months because I was like we're putting it out there, we're going to be the best podcast, we're going to be like the best podcast, we're going to monetize, we're going to grow the downloads, we're going to get ads. Totally didn't go that way. The path ended up very differently, but it was like the first thing that I started grew my network massively.

Kirsten: 9:52

So many women came into my ecosphere and, like I was telling you before, and maybe even when you were on my interview, I wish I had known and understood back then that everybody was in the wild west and that I was an early adopter, just like the women I was bringing on. I for so long saw myself as like a student of life and I was just so lucky to be graced with the presence of like influencers and business owners and amazing women when none of us really knew what we were doing. We were just like going along for the ride, figuring out Instagram, figuring out blogging, social media, as we were like the ones who learned how to live stream when that was brand new, anyway. So that's like the long introductory story for me. But I still, to this day, I attribute everything that I have in my business, every connection that I have, to starting that podcast and just taking the step to grow something, even without having a perfect roadmap. So it's evolved.

Kirsten: 10:43

I've dabbled in so many different businesses, coached in marketing, done direct sales like, made millions of dollars and had lots of losses and failures. So that's, that's all the. That's the broad. You know we're looking at it from that 10,000 miles in the air or 10,000, yeah, 10,000 miles high down at the, at the journey that I've been on. So, whichever one of those things you want to dive into more.

Camille: 11:07

I know there's so many good questions, so, okay, I do have one about the podcast first, and then I want to shift gears a little bit more into what you're doing now, looking back at the podcast and the connections that you made, because I actually have helped a few women coach them through starting a podcast. Now, what would you say to someone who's wanting to start a podcast now? Because I feel like that's the new hot thing, that everyone's thinking, oh, I should start a podcast. And my first question to them is why do you want a podcast? Because the monetization, I feel like, is a little trickier even than Instagram. Because it's that's just my opinion, maybe I haven't had a lot of formal training in it, but just in my experience. I'd be curious if you were talking to someone right now, what would you suggest for them to have a successful podcast and what are those essential questions and answers that you would want them to have to have the success podcasting?

Kirsten: 12:04

Man that is so loaded Like I was thinking of all these different micro answers to give to that because, there's a part of me that says don't start a podcast as your like.

Kirsten: 12:16

Main thing, you want to have some kind of an audience to send to a podcast. It's probably the lowest in terms of SEO, so have maybe the audio as a secondary listening platform, maybe YouTube. Youtube is way more searchable. You definitely want to have a video podcast. So if you're going to do that and I recommend doing that anyway, like I loved back in the day when it was primarily audio because people could just roll out of bed and jump on a call, but I think nowadays we're so optimized to want to view video. So if you want to really double down on the content you're creating via podcast, do video. So you have clips, you have good content. People don't want to go to YouTube just to listen to an audio file where it's a static picture there. So you want to think that way.

Kirsten: 12:55

In terms of searchability, I think that when I was an early adopter, I was able to hit the top charts, like I was, you know, number two on the iTunes charts back then because, first of all, it wasn't as saturated and um, and nowadays, like you, have to be so much more intentional about how your show fills any kind of gap, like it can't just be you wanting to share your heart and share your story. There needs to be something in it for people and you need to see, like is there something missing in the world on podcasts? Is there a way that people are going to actually look for the thing that I'm talking about? Or is it just me having a passion project and feeling like there's something I want to share about? And then, with Millionaire University as an example, one of the things that works really well but is not going to work for everyone is we put a ton of money to grow the listener base so that at this point it's now a money machine. Like when we do an interview, when we have an episode of any kind, the ad revenue that we're getting from the show is higher than like we're making money. Does that make sense? Like we might pay for downloads, but the ad revenue we're getting because we have so many listeners makes it so that every episode is profitable. Um, organically, that would take a lot longer.

Kirsten: 14:03

It's possible, but it's almost like you have to be really laser focused on if you want to monetize a podcast. You have to really care about getting your numbers up. It can't just be this fluff thing. And, that being said, they're one of the best to monetize because you have really active, engaged listeners. So there's pluses and minuses, but it's not something you just enter into lightly. You definitely want to have a reason that it fits into your overall brand and that's not to say like don't do it because you're not good enough or your message isn't important enough. It's just there's a lot of other ways that you can be more visible, quicker and grow an audience faster than podcasting. It's a good supplemental, but I wouldn't say it's a good like top of funnel.

Camille: 14:53

You know what I'm saying. Unless you're going to pay for ads, drive content to it. So okay, really quick, about the Millionaire University. Are you running ads for listeners that way? Yes, and then for the ad piece is that through your host or is that through individual sponsorships?

Kirsten: 15:03

Both. We have an agent and so they're linking us up with big sponsors. We have, like Spotify. We have some really big brands that we didn't go and garner. Obviously we're not making as much because we have the agency. But then we also bring on our own sponsors, which you know, and it just depends on the CPMs for you guys cost per million impressions or per thousand impressions. So we do a little bit of both, but even just what's built in. And then there's like the platform ones that are specific to our host, that they'll run those filler if we don't have a current ad campaign running at the time. So between those like I think we're still even just scratching the surface on how much profitability we can have.

Kirsten: 15:42

And the strategy over there is like we're running an episode every single day. That's what we're working up to, because why, why not? And it hasn't dinged our profitability yet. So it's just kind of some behind the scenes of that. But again, like as a person, as a podcaster, even who's been at this a long time, I even have my show on pause right now because I have to think bigger. What's my strategy? Where does this fit in? And if I'm just doing it to do it just to have one more content piece, it's not worth it. Like I have to be so strategic about how every minute is spent, even though my kids are in school. Now I have like what 25 hours. You have so much on your plate and it's a longer form content piece, so you want to make sure it makes total sense and is going to drive some kind of revenue and some kind of like success into your business.

Camille: 16:28

I love that. I totally agree with everything that you said, that don't have it be top of your funnel. It has to make sense. In fact, one of my friends, alison Prince, are you familiar with her? Yeah, she's amazing, and when I went to her cause she was a podcaster that I know and love and I said what is your advice? And she said very first thing is you have to know how you're going to monetize your podcast or you'll end up resenting it, and that doesn't mean that it's going to be like an immediate thing that you're selling to your audience right away, but that you have a long-term game plan. And I think for both of us that's coaching and that's with helping women in different our different facilities. So thank you for answering those questions. And if you were to say, as far as like the ad piece, how many listens do you think people need to have to get ad revenue?

Camille: 17:21

or an agency Like how many listens.

Kirsten: 17:24

I don't know. Off the top of my head I can tell you where we're at right now to where we're profitable is like 15 to 20,000 organic downloads per episode. So obviously we boost that because it just helps us reach more people and then it increases the ad revenue. But I don't know the point. I know it's been like a year since we started running ads so it wasn't super long into it. But, like I said, they invested a lot of money into increasing audience.

Camille: 17:50

If I get any information on that, I'll let you know. Yeah, are they doing ads through Facebook or Instagram or?

Kirsten: 17:56

LinkedIn? We have, but not really. It's mostly just the organic, because you can run ads for your show to be seen as like a suggested episode in people's feed. So if they're listening to this show, it could show up underneath and say, hey, you should try listening to Camille on Millionaire University.

Camille: 18:12

So that's on Spotify or that's Apple, or they're running ads separately.

Kirsten: 18:18

Yeah, they're running ads natively through there and it'll show up to boost the show.

Kirsten: 18:24

Interesting. I know there's so many things. I'm like man, if I had just like only focused on the podcasting world at this point, I'd be a multi, multi, multi-millionaire, because you know riches in the niches and it's been such a high evolving space and it's just something I was like, oh, I'll try this, it'll be fun, and I think, again, there's more ways to monetize than just directly on platform ads, like what you and I are doing. That's really what I've mostly monetized is the networking getting asked to speak on stages, getting asked to write books and being invited to things and then having that network of people. If I'm doing a business, I have instant clients, I have instant connections, and so that's more been my monetization strategy.

Kirsten: 19:03

And then it's so funny, right, as you, let go and don't stress about it. I did start getting sponsorship and I still, to this day, get them. I just don't, I just don't do them. And I could, I totally could. It's just we don't have time for everything and sometimes you have to stay really focused in your lane because ads, even on podcasts, require there's there's a lot of things you have to make sure that you're doing to to adhere to their requirements.

Camille: 19:25

Oh yeah, that's its own thing. Own little ball of wax, yes, yes, okay, cool, all right. Well, I love that you shared that part of your story, because I think what that touches into that a lot of us can relate to is being a natural entrepreneur or someone who wants to build something. It is natural for us to do something and then want to try something new and then also learn. But here's the thing is that it's all information. It's like building upon and giving you ideas of what you want to do, moving forward. So I wouldn't look at that and be like, dang, you really missed out on that, because that's not where your heart was. So it's like, yeah, like you have that knowledge and you moved it into something new that aligned more with where you want it to be going.

Camille: 20:09

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Kirsten: 21:26

Okay, so I'm going to just give you kind of a cool like little story bridge too, and then I'll dive deeper into that.

Kirsten: 21:32

Millionaire University remember the first podcast I took those photos for is 8 Minute Millionaire it's the same exact people, and so they were my early mentors, like unofficially, and I jumped right into this world, learned from them didn't necessarily replicate their exact business model, aside from the podcast. And now it's so cool to look years later and I'm on the other side of this huge mountain where I was such a beginner, didn't know what I was doing, and now I'm a collaborator on the show and I remember listening as they rebooted this and thinking like, oh, I would love to be able to contribute and be an expert because I've learned so much and I just love this world, I love podcasting and I would love to contribute. And like within days, justin reached out and was like, what would you feel about this? Like, what do you think? And I'm like, well, that's like manifestation, if I ever saw it.

Kirsten: 22:18

Yeah, yeah, because I hadn't done anything tangibly. And so it's just cool to see like that is just one little anchor point in my story to another in terms of like you never know where you're gonna head. There's so many different like wine, twists and turns along the way and for me and I'll just kind of share like how the emotional intelligence layer comes in, and even a little bit more of my journey as an entrepreneur when I started one of the cool conversations that I had with Tara, who's the other host of the the show, knowing that she was a millionaire, I went to her and I was like man, what is it? Like? I didn't say what's your strategy? How do you do that? Because I didn't even know what questions to ask, right? I didn't know what an email list was. I didn't know what SEO was, none of that. I just knew you have a podcast. You're a millionaire. Tell me, what does that feel like to be a millionaire? And she said oh, it's amazing. You can look at a menu when you're at a restaurant and you order what you really want to eat, not what is the cheapest thing on the menu. Or you can go shopping and you can buy what you love, and you can dress for the body that you have instead of just like what the price tag is. And there was a couple other things that she said, and I remember we had, like gone out for frozen yogurt, and then, in that same conversation, she told me you need an email list, you need this.

Kirsten: 23:25

The thing that sunk in the most, though, was like totally embodying what that would feel like to become a millionaire, and I will tell you that, while I have learned tons of strategies, that moment right there was probably the most pivotal for me, and I still attribute so much to that because it was the first time, without even realizing what I was doing, which is what I teach and help women do now that I made this total shift, this total shift of my story, where, up until now, I believed well, you have to be a doctor, a lawyer or have a big, huge, complicated business to become a millionaire, and I'm now seeing this family who has three kids like me. They're not much older than me, they're millionaires. That means wait a minute, can I, can I become a millionaire? Like, is this possible for me? And then, leaning into the story that she shared, like the emotional connection to that feeling, oh my gosh, like that's what it would feel, like I can't even imagine having no stress about finances and just all of those really tangible things right that we've experienced if you've had money hardship, where you have to overthink everything and you almost worship money in a different way, because it's like constantly on your mind. And so I look back and I'm like that was so huge and what I think every woman needs to know, that it's so easy to want to just get information, but it's embodiment. It's like fully leaning in. And I remember coming home to my apartment, like my two bedroom subsidized apartment, and being like I don't live here, like this might be where my body goes, but this is not where I live. I had already created such a real picture of what my life was going to be and that felt more real than the reality I was in and that is like that is the magical key and it sounds so hokey and woo woo but it truly is and you can do all of the mindset work you want but if you don't feel it, if there's not a genuine emotional connection to it, it's just going to feel like this thing you're reaching for that's outside of yourself and not something that you're in the process of creating. So that was like a huge early thing that I didn't again. Like I said, I didn't nobody taught this To me.

Kirsten: 25:24

Over time, as I started learning more about quantum science and brain and like how we're so adaptable and how the quantum world works and how we are literally creating our reality every day we're not just perceiving it I started to realize, oh my gosh, like that's what I did. That's why this worked, because within three years, I had made my first million dollars doing something that hadn't even been an option at the time, right Like it was working in a company doing sales that hadn't even been formed. And then you know so. Anyway. Now, what I look back on, though, at the times that have been harder and that haven't worked, it's when I'm not doing that. It's when I'm I lose sight of vision, just like I said in the beginning, and you just start getting kind of carried down the river of life and you're not doing it with purpose, you're not doing with intention, and I went through a pretty big like hardship where the business that I was doing it just kind of blew up in my face. There was a lot of really awful things that happened and I was stuck in this like terrible emotional dip for probably four or five years and I was still showing up like from the outside looking in. You probably would have no idea how bleak things really were for me because even after like things resolved the emotional stuff I was carrying, I couldn't talk about it without starting to like shake and I would just replay it like I was there again.

Kirsten: 26:36

And so I went to a retreat last year with some amazing female entrepreneurs and it was rewind just a couple months. My dad had passed away last February, so we just hit the year mark of him dying and he's if you're watching video, he's here in this little picture behind me very unexpectedly. So talk about a shock. Right, You're going to have the same like reaction to something like that as you'd have to losing a whole business. And I got invited to this retreat and I was like this is the dumbest timing ever. I committed, committed and then I tried to pull out and I was like I cannot go talk to women about entrepreneurship Like this is maybe a few years ago this would be a great opportunity, but now, heck, no, I just I had to go anyway because I couldn't get my money back.

Kirsten: 27:18

So I showed up for this retreat and I met this incredible woman who taught me things and she dialed in so much. She was like I bet you keep starting things, I bet you keep starting things. I bet you keep starting things and you get just to the point where you're going to launch it and I bet you sabotage, don't you? And I was like, how did you know that? And she was like because, based on everything you've told me, success to you is extremely dangerous. Success is scary. And as she's talked, I was like, yeah, that's exactly what it is. And so she helped me and I decided to end up coaching with her, went through her whole emotional intelligence program and then certified because I realized this had been the missing piece. I had been able to think more positive thoughts, but I hadn't been able to fully process that trauma and that setback and that hardship that I had gone through, where my whole success was built on this identity Like I'm a millionaire, I'm this, I'm this leader, I'm all these things. And once that was gone, I lost who I was and I wasn't even sure how to begin rebuilding. So I was doing all the work, I was reading the good books, but it was just missing this piece of processing that trauma. So, at the same time, somebody someday I'll share this video I went through I learned how to physically regulate your body, because emotions they get trapped in there, right, like terrible things, get trapped in our bodies.

Kirsten: 28:30

They manifest as illnesses, they manifest as anxiety and I had this day where I finally was like, okay, I'm ready to let it go. Sorry, I'm talking so long, this is like the long story. No, this is great, keep going. And for me I'm a fighter Like that's my natural emotional response. You know, when we're talking fight, flight, freeze, I'm a fighter. And so I had a medicine ball, slammed the medicine ball down while finding this song and it was actually so weird how the song was like on an old playlist that was from that time period in my life, but I didn't remember the song at all. I was like, how did this end up on the playlist? But it was perfect, it totally embodied, and I was doing that to just let the emotion go that had been trapped the night that my dad died.

Kirsten: 29:08

Oh my gosh, let me see if I can find it on the playlist. I might have to like send it to you and have you link to it, because I've listened to it a few times, but again, like not the most memorable song, but it was just like where are these people who accused me? And it was just like about rising again. And so I listened to that and I'm slamming the medicine ball and I just lose it and I'm just sobbing and I'm talking to my dad and I'm talking to these people who had hurt me in these experiences I had, and it's just forgiveness and it's love and it's just letting it go. And I'm sitting here telling you right now.

Kirsten: 29:40

There's times, if I get too deep into the details of what happened in my previous failure, that it'll have a little emotional. I think there's still some stuff in there right, especially now as I'm being brave and putting myself out there fully again. But when I talk about the night my dad died, which was extremely traumatic, there's not one single visceral response Like I'm sad, but my body doesn't shake and I don't feel this like anxiety attack. I don't feel tension in my stomach and to me that's such a testament of how powerful we have to connect the mind to the body, and that was a hard thing for me to learn. I'm sure we all are good at this right. We're such good thinkers, we're such good planners and we can just live in our mind palaces and solve world hunger and then, when it comes time to do it, we're like well, what happened to her, what happened to the motivated strategic plan that I had and the person I wanted to show up as? And so for me it was like all the difference from going stuck in this darkness and this mire into finally moving into a state of creation. And it's not perfect, it's still a work in progress, but how powerful is that? And if you think about it, it comes back to that initial experience I had, where there has to be an emotional connection, and that, inherently, is what emotional intelligence is for me.

Kirsten: 30:50

You know you can define it in various ways, but for me it's like being able to have the body on the same page as the mind and the dreams and the hopes and the plans that you have, and not trying to fight it, not trying to like say I don't have time for my feelings right now. I have a plan. I have a business to build. I don't have time to feel sad. I don't have time for my feelings right now. I have a plan, I have a business to build. I don't have time to feel sad, I don't have time to be anxious or worried.

Kirsten: 31:11

So I think, as women, we do that. We kind of want to push it down, and there's a very masculine approach to entrepreneurship that we've kind of tried to find our space in. So I think it's a really important missing piece that so many women are trying to navigate without having that, you know, and they're just driving themselves crazy and they're not sure, like why am I not doing what I want to do? I have all the knowledge. What is holding me back? And it's probably that.

Camille: 31:35

Ooh, that is. I mean, there's so much to unpack there and thank you for sharing that story. I feel like there is so much to be understood about our, our mind, our body, our emotional connection, even with. I have helped a lot of parents, going through my own experience with my kids and how they're processing emotions and how, when kids are anxious or not feeling well, they'll process those emotions first in their stomachs or in their digestion and they don't even know how to explain that they're feeling a certain way or that they're holding onto a certain emotion. They just say they, they feel sick you know, and so it's.

Camille: 32:12

I feel like we're becoming more and more aware of what that emotional intelligence can look like and they first show. I mean, look at how it first shows signs in our kids, in their stomachs, because that's where emotion can be stored first is in that stomach or in that heart space. And so it makes a lot of sense now as adults, where maybe when we were kids it was oh well, you're fine, there's nothing wrong, like you don't have a fever, let's go to school, or whatever the thing is which, trust me, I'm guilty of. I'm like, if you don't have a fever or you're not throwing up, you're going to school. And that was before I understood that I had a child who needed to walk through and talk through the emotions that they were feeling and to help them feel safe. And then, once that was established, they were able to go to school without feeling that way.

Camille: 33:05

And it's really interesting too, because now, as adults, with starting a business or doing that scary thing, we have to connect our emotions with that process. And I love how you said navigating it in a masculine space, because men too, especially, are told not to cry about things or not to feel a certain way about things and not to let emotion show. So what have been as you've coached people through this, or for yourself, what are some good first steps of understanding if there's something that you're holding onto that you may need to work through to get to the level that you're going for?

Kirsten: 33:43

A good book I'd recommend is the Body Keeps the Score. And I'm not even I'm going to admit I'm not even done with the book. It's, I love it, it's science-y, it's like right down my alley.

Camille: 33:53

And.

Kirsten: 33:53

I also sometimes need a brain break, so it's taking me longer to get through it.

Kirsten: 33:56

I mean, we're talking years of getting through it because I'm like, oh, that's interesting. And then I go on a side tangent and want to learn. All your body will tell you and I think, when you're getting into that swirly whirly of thoughts, pay attention to what you're also feeling and where you're feeling it, because just the awareness sometimes is powerful enough to help you recognize, okay, something's happening inside of me. This isn't just a thought. This thought is causing some feeling and there's like back in the nineties there was this really great tape series by Janine Brady, like the bright tapes, and one of the songs is you think it, you feel it, you do it. It's that old think, feel, do polka. I loved these songs as a kid, so such a such a vibe, cause I still remember them, like 30 years later.

Kirsten: 34:40

Um, but I think if you realize that, like every feeling you have is originating from a thought somewhere, and so even just that, like capturing and saying, okay, what am I feeling right now and what was I thinking as I started to feel this way, and getting it down, like taking it out of your brain and recognizing it so you can look at it, I think this is something that women don't do enough, even if it's pull your phone out, write it down in your notes app. It's similar to telling your parents you had a bad dream and telling them what it is, and suddenly now you're laughing about it instead of it feeling really scary and like uncomfortable. So that's kind of two tips in one, I think. Just recognize, where am I feeling this in the body? Am I feeling this in the body? And it may not be in the way you think. It might not be as obvious as, oh, my stomach is like tensing up. You might feel cold. You might notice your eyes are like going unfocused. You might feel really overstimulated and like this tiniest sound is sending you over the edge. And it's because we all have this like window of tolerance where we can handle only a certain amount of stimuli, and the minute we are shot out of that, that's where our fight flight or freeze comes in, and freeze is actually the bottom of the window. This is where you numb out, where you scroll, where you just get really tired and you just want to be still and you might think like, well, I'm calm, I'm fine, and I think this is the most deceptive one.

Kirsten: 35:53

A lot of times we can hang out there until suddenly it's a little too much. And now we're like screaming and crying or freaking out on our kids or like sabotaging, burning the business down because we didn't honor what the body needed to do, and so it's not that you have to sit there and go. I didn't have to go relive trauma, right. It's just like okay.

Kirsten: 36:10

When I think about the thing, this is how I feel Like my shoulders tense, my stomach gets really tight, I feel nauseous, so you can literally respond to that with the same like symptom specific. So if I'm getting a stomach ache, like go rub some peppermint on your stomach or smell some peppermint, or consciously bring the tension to the stomach because it starts to like release and tell your brain oh, we're actually not in a dangerous situation, cause that's what's happening. You're moving into this fight or flight or freeze, similarly to if you saw a bear and there's like a social media trend that's been going on, like unfortunately, I mean, my brain doesn't know the difference between needing to clean my house and being chased by a bear, even though I know that consciously my brain doesn't, and so I think that that's like really in depth and that's something that I coach on to help you find and identify your own emotional response. And actually I have a quiz If your listeners want to take it. It helps you find your dominant natural stress response type so we can link to that in your show notes. But or you can go to quizkirstentyrrelcom, because sometimes even just the understanding of like oh, how do I naturally show up?

Kirsten: 37:14

I did a masterclass recently with a bunch of women and they thought they were one, and then there were so many that were totally a different thing. And the thing about the freeze and there's one called fond too. They show up when you don't honor your fight or flight, like they're secondary, when you were not able to successfully move through being able to run it off or get away from an unsafe situation, or you couldn't fight back because you had to be PC, like in my case. I had to, like, maintain appearances. I couldn't just full on fight. It's not that I needed to physically go fight someone. I needed to let my body feel like I was honoring my need to protect myself. And so had I done some airboxing or screaming it out, like it wouldn't have stifled the voice that I had, it wouldn't have led to me just pushing all of this inside, where then it comes out right. That's why the shaking happens, because I'm literally freezing. I'm freezing when I'm faced with fear, because I couldn't honor the fight or the flight. So isn't that fascinating.

Kirsten: 38:09

Like they are so intelligent and it's I think that it's like where you align with that that you say my body knows my heart and my mind. No, I just need to like bring it all together and be really purposeful and intentional about using emotions for a positive thing and not let them run the show in a negative way.

Camille: 38:27

I love that I actually went. I was attending an event that was being put on by my husband's law firm and there was a person who was presenting on anxiety and emotional intelligence and she said, even turning around behind you and assuring yourself that there isn't someone or something chasing you will help to reduce your tension in your body. And I'm like that is crazy. But it's so primeval or what's the right term, it's so primitive Primitive, thank you when our brain really does have some, where we have to have some tools to just help that primitive side of ourselves figure out that it's safe. And so I think that that is so interesting, that those secondary to fawn or to be fawn or freeze is secondary, because had you ran or punched it out is so interesting to me.

Kirsten: 39:26

Yeah, and there's a lot. There's a lot sometimes to unpack, depending on how long you've like pushed that down. And the beautiful thing is when I explained to you the day that I like slammed the medicine ball and I just let out this whole rage of emotions. It's not like I had to do it to that degree all the time. And we're talking what? Three to five minutes.

Kirsten: 39:46

And then I was like I feel better than I have felt in a very long time.

Kirsten: 39:50

I had a friend DM me because I shared recently, like I said, it's been the year mark, so I was sharing about my dad and I was talking about like this very thing that I'm sharing with you, how powerful that is. To say I had this huge event and I'm not just you know, speaking out words. Like I lived this, like I went through the most devastating day of my entire life and I can sit here and talk to you guys about it and I can share the raw emotion and it's not going to ruin my day, like I'm not just unhinged and I'm not broken inside. I have grief. Grief is so real and it's an emotion and I work with it. I don't suppress it and say, but when I try, sometimes I try to say I don't have time to cry today and then I always pay for it later, like it has to come out and I honor that.

Kirsten: 40:29

But I had a friend DM me and she was like this makes sense now why? Soon after my dad passed away, I was in the basement working out and I just lost it and cried and she was like and after that I felt so much better because the body needed to let go of this grief and sometimes the working out like if she had a natural fight response and she was just holding on to anger over that or feeling like she couldn't fix it. She needed to process that physically and so it is a huge. Like I said, it's the missing piece that I think a lot of us do not even realize, that we're not honoring and we're just driving ourselves nuts trying to think our way through it.

Camille: 41:04

Absolutely. And you know, even in moments of frustration, with moments of motherhood or being, you know if you're, if your kid is having a hard time emotionally regulating. But it is not your job to emotionally regulate them. It's your job to model behavior so they can emotionally regulate themselves.

Camille: 41:25

So as for let's twist it a little bit for, like the moms listening, which some of you may be and some of you may not be, or let's say, how do you do that within a space where maybe people around you, even maybe people you work with, are having emotional responses? How do you keep yourself in a safe and like a place where you are rooted and grounded and doing your own work, so you're not reactive?

Kirsten: 41:52

Yeah, and I think, well, you just you answered it even in the question like you have, you can only be responsible for yourself, right? We can't control anyone. That includes our kids, that includes our coworkers, and so I think this what I tell my husband, as I've been like teaching him these concepts, cause I've lived it and he's seeing enough now that he's like, okay, like, show me your ways, um, but he'll, he'll talk about like well, I just have boundaries. You know, when we talk a lot about boundaries, I just don't engage with that person and I said is that freedom to you to have to keep, like putting boundary walls up so that you're just? And I believe me, I'm a believer in boundaries, I think they're, they belong there. I think, though, that there are certain times when we just need to understand that true freedom can come from being able to be with anyone anywhere, and we are okay, like we can still feel safe.

Kirsten: 42:36

And I think a lot of that happens from the inside out and not outside in, because you can't control all the circumstances. Like if you've lived any days on this planet, you know that's the case. I couldn't control if my dad died. I can't control if you know my business fails I mean to an extent right, but like there's things that are just going to happen outside of your control. Your kids are going to have bad days, your coworkers are going to have bad days, and so I think it's knowing like what do I need to stay safe? How do I stay regulated and how do I give other people space in?

Kirsten: 43:03

In what I coach on too, I talk about like the power of shifting your stories, and something so beautiful about this is if somebody's coming at you and they're saying things you've probably heard this analogy If somebody tells you you have blue hair and you full fully do not have blue hair, you don't believe them. You're like okay, if they say something to you or they attack you and it brings something up, that's a really strong indication. There's something inside of that that feels true to you. I'm not saying it is true, I'm saying it's bringing something up from the past. And so what I love about going through this process with people is when you go through this shifting and you kind of write down this whole narrative of like well, they said this or I believe this about what they said, and you take the time to go through the swap, like you swap the story. By the end of that, you either have compassion for the person you're laughing about it, not laughing at them, but you're kind of laughing at the whole situation that you were even triggered in the first place. And it's similar, like I said, you're sharing the bad dream and suddenly you found this was just a story. This isn't real, this isn't true. And that's not to say we give people a pass to be jerks and to treat us like crap. That's where boundaries belong. But to be unfazed by that because you're taking care of yourself and you're saying this is only bothering me because there's somewhere a story attached to this. I'll give you an example.

Kirsten: 44:17

I have such. I don't want to use the word trauma lightly, but I do. I have a lot of trauma from past experiences with people in authority and so when I recently had a conversation with a business you know a business associate he had to call me after and was like I feel like something, I said something wrong and I was like, oh my gosh, actually no, it's me, and there was some technical stuff we could work through, but it was mostly. I was able to be vulnerable enough and say in the past when I get going on a project and I feel like I'm doing well and somebody comes in and tells me that it's not this or it's not that or I need to be changed Like in the past, that felt really unsafe because this is what happened and he was like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad to know that. Like I understand and it wasn't me saying I was totally justified in being triggered, it was me saying this is where I'm coming from. I'm owning the fact I clearly still have some work to do.

Kirsten: 45:08

I thought I had processed that I still have a story in there where I don't feel like I'm heard or I don't feel like I can exist in my genius zone without being course corrected and like how cool is that? To now engage in everything's a learning experience and everything is like growth for me, instead of just this terrible thing that I'm going to go rant about for hours to my husband and say how unfair is life and it shifts you from this victim, constant victim, which, I will be the first to admit, I think I lived in for the majority of my life. And this happens when you're surrounded by people who want to rescue you, like, even if their intentions are good, parenting right now too, like rescuing your kids from hard things, can really take away your ability to navigate those things. And so in many ways, I've had to retrain my brain to not view life as happening to me and view life as happening for me, and show up as the creator and engage in these challenging conversations and different experiences. You know different experiences with people in a totally different way, and it changes the game.

Kirsten: 46:05

I didn't change the person, I didn't change all the things that needed to be happening, like with the business and the course correction he was giving. I just changed my perspective on it and it made everything feel so much better. So, like I know that's a broad answer answer it's going to depend on the situation, obviously, but even with my kids you kind of mentioned, like in our families, I can't force my kids to regulate their emotions, but I can definitely model that and that's something I learned as I went through the coaching, because I'm seeing them. I'm like, oh my gosh, everybody's walking around like a bunch of emotional basket cases. What can I do? And my coach was like you just keep doing it for yourself, you keep being the example and for me that required.

Kirsten: 46:42

We had conversations. I told them, when you hear the slamming sound, mom slamming the medicine ball and it's because I want to get my frustrating feelings out on the medicine ball and not on you, because I love you and I want to show up for you. And I had to create that safety for myself so that I didn't feel like my family was going to laugh and think I was insane in here making all the noise. But then, like now, it didn't take long, my daughter will go slam the medicine ball, my kid will go run around the house.

Kirsten: 47:09

It's taken practice and conversation to really set the tone, for that is how we show up and this is why and we bring them, like I said, into the homeschooling to private school transition. They were part of the conversation and we aligned both our vision with their vision and anyway. So that's kind of going off the rails a little bit with the answer, but I think that's the key is you can only control. You Use the tools to help you stay in a regulated space, have the boundaries where necessary, but to me truly, freedom is being able to be in any circumstance and you are Zen. That is the Buddha right, that's a Buddhist mentality.

Camille: 47:46

Ooh, I love it. Well, obviously, there's so much more to unpack here and so much more that you share online. Please tell everyone where they can find you and your resources Of course so, kirstentyrellcom.

Kirsten: 47:57

I'm on Instagram. Everything's just my name, Kirsten Tyrrel, of course. So, kirstentyrrelcom. I'm on Instagram. Everything's just my name, Kirsten Tyrrel. It's K-I-R-S-T-E-N-T-Y-R-R-E-L, and you can find all the things. Like I said, you can take the quiz if you want to figure out like what's my natural emotional response type, and then I will send you some good resources to help you function and thrive in that way. And, yeah, come check out all the things. I'm making a lot more content about this to help you shift those narratives and have that full alignment with the life that you want to create. And it's super exciting work and I love helping women do it.

Camille: 48:27

I love it. This has been amazing. Thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your story and everyone. Thank you so much for listening in today. I appreciate all of the comments and the DMs. Please feel free to reach out to me and have these conversations. You can find me at camillewalkerco online and on Instagram, and also on Instagram at callmeceopodcast. Have a great one. We'll see you next time. Hey CEOs, thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment and a five-star review. You could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram at callmeCEOPodcast, and remember you are the boss.