Marketing Success & Unfollowing your Competition | Tanhnee Sanders

TAHNEE SANDERS [0:00]

Keeping your focus on what your ideal client needs and not being distracted by your competitors actually can be really motivating because when we start to second guess everything, I then always say to myself, but does my home feed on Instagram, for example, that I’m scrolling right now, is this what my ideal client’s home feed would look like? And no. It doesn’t. So, imagine what your ideal client scroll looks like and how can you be the one who brings value in that scroll because you’re probably not in there alongside 10 of your competitors.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE WALKER [0:39]

So, you want to make an impact. You’re thinking about starting a business sharing your voice? How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? We’ll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

One of the number one questions I get all of the time is what do I share online and how do I know what to share in a way that I feel confident in sharing it? One of the major things you need to consider is what is in your way that is making you feel less confident? Is it the things that you’re reading? Is it the people you’re seeing online? Is it someone you’re following? Consider what it is that you are using to fuel your mind and therein fuel your business.

Today, we’re talking with Tahnee Sanders, who is going to tell us exactly what you need to get rid of, who you need to unfollow so that you can create space for energy and flow and also those moments of really understanding what your client needs and how you can help them solve their problem.

[MUSIC]

Welcome everyone to Call Me CEO. This is Camile Walker, your host. And today, we are talking about unfollowing your competitors on social media. Is that a taboo subject? I don’t know. We’re going to dig into it with Tahnee Sanders today. She is the owner and CEO of The Strategy Studio. She helps people to write content to create a business that they love. And I am not saying it as beautifully and eloquently as Tahnee will.

Because I will tell you, listen really close because my mouth was so tripped up over what to say for her because she said it so beautifully. It was like one of those things where they’re like, “Come up with your 20-second pitch. Listen to this because it is refined.” So, Tahnee, thank you so much for being here. Tell us what you do better than I came.

TAHNEE [2:31]

Thank you. I really appreciate this opportunity to connect today. So, I always explain to people that I help female-founded service-based businesses to communicate their value, so they can connect with more of their ideal clients and that they can charge what they’re worth, so they run profitable sustainable businesses that light them up which is what we all want.

CAMILLE [2:53]

Boom! I mean, come on. That was really good. How long did it take you to come up with a perfectly polished pitch like that?

TAHNEE [3:00]

Actually, a really strange moment. I feel like I never exactly known what it was and I was in a business retreat and this was only in the last 6 months. And we had this coach talking to us a lot about purpose and I think I had always known what my purpose was, but I should I’m a marketing strategist and copywriter, but I never had that sentence that just fell out of my mouth.

And we were just having this roundtable discussion and the facilitator just asked me a question and it was just like, it sounds weird to say, an out of body experience, but I didn’t think about it. And I just said, “I help women communicate their value.” And then, I jumped back and was like, whoa, yeah. That’s it. And I’d always said the other pieces about knowing how to charge what you’re worth and have a profitable sustainable business. But to me, that missing piece was, yeah, communicating your value, knowing how to do that and I think, yeah, that’s the bit that lights me up.

CAMILLE [3:56]

Just that sentence, I had chills fall over me. And when you said it was like an aha moment, I absolutely believe in those moments. There’s a book that was written by Oprah and it comes from interviews that she’s done with hundreds of people and it’s called The Purpose-Driven Path.

TAHNEE [4:18]

I’ve heard of that. I haven’t read it. I’m going to go look for it now.

CAMILLE [4:19]

But you want to listen to it because what’s really neat about it is that it’s little bits of people’s lives, actors, activists, business people, musicians. And they share those moments where it’s almost like clouds are parted and there’s this piece of clarity that comes to you and you’re like, that is it. It’s beautiful.

TAHNEE [4:43]

It was absolutely one of those moments, yeah. It was really special.

CAMILLE [4:46]

That’s really cool. And you know what? For those of you listening and thinking, I haven’t had that moment or I thought I’ve had that moment, you can have that moment more than once. But I think that it’s so beautiful when it comes at the perfect time.

Okay. So, you are a copywriter, a marketer, and you help people explain their value and being willing to charge that value. That is something I think everyone listening to this would relate to. So, talk to me about helping women identify what words to use and how to talk to people that way and how your journalling or your journalist background has helped you in conveying those messages.

TAHNEE [5:21]

Yeah. So, I started out my career in journalism and I was in daily newspapers for several years. And I ultimately reached the point of burnout and also obviously, I’m in Australia, if you can tell by my accent, but I’m sure it’s the same across the world. The media landscape really changed and it no longer felt like I was doing what I was passionate about.

And for me, what I was passionate about was asking the right questions to get the answer that helped tell someone’s story. And once I realized that that was my thing, then the creation of this business just was like this natural thing that accidentally happened in a way, but now, I couldn’t imagine it any other way.

But in terms of how do we communicate our value? If I was to sit down with you now and say, “Communicate your value to me.” That’s not a thing. What is that? And I often think the answer to that is actually answering other questions first. So, if I was sitting down with a client and we were trying to nut out what that was, I would say, “Okay, talk to me about what your ideal client struggles with the most.”

So, I’m just going to take one of my clients as an example, but I would say my ideal client is feeling like no matter what they say, people still don’t get what it is that they do. So, that’s my ideal client struggle. So, they’d also say things like, “I know I should be charging more, but I don’t think anyone will pay that for my services.” So, I’m asking questions to them to elicit what it is that they’re struggling with.

And when I can, then flip it and say, “Okay, and what do you do to solve that? How do you solve those questions that your ideal client has?” Usually, your value is in those answers. And I wish I could say there’s a perfect formula for it. But really, instead of staring at a blank screen, I really often tell people to audio record themselves. Pretend you’re interviewing yourself almost because you don’t ever think it.

When you sit there at a computer with your keyboard and you try to just start writing, it’s like either analysis paralysis because you’re at a computer with your keyboard and you try to just start writing. It’s like either analysis paralysis because you just dumped so much information that it means nothing. Or on the flip side, it’s a blank screen. And there’s nothing more daunting than a white piece of paper when you’re trying to find the right words for something.

So, yeah, ask yourself what does my ideal client struggle with? What are they coming to me with? And then, the next question would be, and how do you help them solve the struggle? And somewhere in there will be what your value is because you will do it differently to everyone else.

CAMILLE [7:54]

That’s so smart. Actually, I know. I talked to a friend specifically where we will troubleshoot questions and answers about business together. And then, I’ll say something brilliant or so they tell me. And then, they’ll say, “Wait. Say what you said again. That was really good.” And I’m like, “I don’t know. It just came out. Didn’t you write it down?”

Yes, and so now, that’s actually what we do. We will set it up so that we do take notes with what each other says because I think the way that we speak often translates so much more human toned than the way that we write or even the way we record a video for social media or any of those things because it rolls off the tongue. It comes from the heart. And it’s that authenticity.

TAHNEE [8:45]

I tell people to do the same thing when they’re writing captions for social media. What do you want to say? Just voice record it, and then you can even just upload it to an audio transcription service and get it back as written text. Cut out all of the add-on in between, and then what you have to do is tidy it up. But often, we can say what we do so much better when it feels like a conversation instead of getting caught up in our head where we think, I need to be a writer. We don’t. We just need to have good valuable conversations and answers are always in there.

CAMILLE [9:14]

I love it. I could just bathe in this. It feels so good. So, let’s talk about unfollowing our competitors because listen, there is so much right now that we’re trying to come up with, with video. And a lot of it is about mimic something you’ve seen, but make it your own. Create your own storyline, but don’t do exactly what they said, but do the trending thing. So, it’s like these mixed messages of how do we know the right thing to do?

TAHNEE [9:42]

And I don’t know that there’s a right thing. There’s just a right thing for you. So, what I’m going to say might not resonate with everyone, but it’s what I have found has worked for me. And I didn’t always do this. But I found especially when I’m in a place where I do obviously a lot of marketing and a lot of writing.

And again, maybe this is the journalist in me, but I was so conscious of what if I accidentally copied someone? It’s where this thing started from. And I would never want to be accused of using someone else’s idea. But when we’re exposed to it en masse like we are now, that happens. You can’t help it. It’s very rarely intentional. But I was like, how can I just try and avoid this? So, that was part of it.

And the other part of it was getting so caught up in what everyone else was doing and was starting to second guess whether my ideas weren’t good. And then, in a conversation with a client, my client was second guessing everything she wanted to say and do because that’s what so and so did or but I’ve already seen this person do that.

And I’ve found myself in this conversation with a client saying, “But do you run your business for your competitors or do you run your business for your ideal client?” And she’s like, “My ideal client, of course.” I’m like, “So, we need to stop paying attention to our competitors.” And then, it was like a slap in the face to myself at the same time. And I just said to this client, I’m like, “Here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to go through our feeds and we’re going to unfollow our competitors.”

Maybe you still follow them on a personal account or something. I know we all generally tend to have two, if not more, Instagram accounts. So, I’m not saying in a nasty unfollow way, but maybe you need one domain or one aspect of your business where you exclusively focus on your ideal client and the freedom that can come from keeping your focus in what your ideal client needs and not being distracted by your competitors actually can be really motivating.

Because when we start to second guess everything, I then always say to myself, but just my home feed in Instagram, for example, that I’m scrolling right now, is this what my ideal client’s home feed would look like? And no, it doesn’t. So, imagine what your ideal client scroll looks like and how can you be the one that brings value in that scroll because you’re probably not in there alongside 10 of your competitors.

CAMILLE [12:08]

Yeah, no. I think that that’s brilliant advice because we do. It’s almost like that idea and this has a psychological term to it and I don’t know what it is, maybe you would remember, but when you’re thinking about buying a new car. For example, we’re thinking about the Telluride. Okay, and so then, I start seeing a Telluride everywhere. And it’s this car that’s so out of touch, but then everyone’s driving it and it’s not that now everyone has Tellurides, my mind is just more filtered to see it.

TAHNEE [12:38]

It’s called your reticular activating system.

CAMILLE [12:40]

There it is. You knew it. Slam dunk.

TAHNEE [12:45]

Yes. But it’s true. It’s that exact same concept applies to all aspects of our business. And sometimes, it can work in amazing ways to our benefit. You can be like I really think that I have this new service I need to offer or I’m thinking about this new product. I wonder if this would work. And just by putting it out into the universe, I call it your brain goes into google mode and it’s always just looking for bits of information to add into that thought.

So, sometimes, it’s super valuable, but other times, it’s epically distracting. So, it’s like a delicate balance of which one works, but I sometimes find the best inspiration comes from outside the social media platforms, which is why I think you can still unfollow your competitors to give yourself that white space to think more creatively, but your reticular activating system can still be on high load in every other aspect of your day-to-day life and you’ll still see all of those other ideas coming to you.

CAMILLE [13:42]

Yeah. I like that. And just as a side note, you don’t have to unfollow. You can mute someone.

TAHNEE [13:47]

Totally, exactly. Unfollow is a drastic explanation of it. I just mean not have them in your home feed.

CAMILLE [13:52]

Yes, which I love because I think that even there is a space in your life right now where maybe there are people that you absolutely love and adore, but they’re not best for your mental state in whatever capacity it is.

I share this story once of how I had just had a baby, my third, and I was feeling so gross and chubby and bleakly everywhere, just not feeling good. And a dear friend of mine was at the top of her physical physique. She was so fit. She looked amazing. She was crushing it at the creator game and I’m like, I love her. I can’t unfollow her. But I need to mute her.

And that’s okay. I think this applies as well where it’s like if you know that something triggers you in a way that makes you feel uncreative, unmotivated, or you can’t create, then pause it. Put it on mute. You don’t have to unfollow, but you need to unfollow with your energy, which I think that’s the intention, that brain, the reticular activator, all of that, where it’s like where do we put that creation and that energy?

So, talk to me. Let’s say that we have muted our triggers, our competitors, whatever the thing is that makes you feel like your message isn’t enough, whatever that is. Let’s say that we’ve done that. What are some good ways for us to find inspiration online or in our lives that can help us to fuel our business?

TAHNEE [15:22]

I think for me, again, this depends on the way you like to consume information. So, you might like audio. You might prefer video. You might like to read. So, it’s knowing what avenue you like to use to consume I think is an important one.

But I find podcasts such a great one because I don’t always have to intently focused and listening. So, for me, it’s like sometimes when I’m in the daily mom life situation, I can feel like that other part of my brain is getting a bit of a workout just by having an interesting conversation on in the background.

And I’m one of those annoying people that I always have to be like, stop, hang on a second. I just need to write that down and I just have endless notes in my iPhone of ideas that just come to me at different times. I was recently in Bali on a wonderful holiday, but I was having a facial. And thankfully, it wasn’t full in the bed one where it was awkward, but I was just sitting in a chair. But I got this idea and I was like, “I’m really sorry. Can you stop for a second?” Because I needed to write it down.

And I think that is almost a big part of it. It’s the, we get an idea and we’re like, I’ll remember that. I don’t know if it’s a mom brain thing, but I never remember it. So, I’ve just had to form this habit of whatever I’m doing, if it’s watching something, listening to a podcast, reading a book, when I get the idea, just to jot it down. It doesn’t have to turn into anything, but it just needs to be recorded somewhere.

And then, maybe once a month, when I get a chance, I scroll back through that note on my phone and look at all these random dumps of thoughts and half of them might be no good, but every now and again, there’d be one and I’m like, that would make a really great newsletter topic to send to my list or something. So, that’s part of it.

But then, I also think for some people, it can be reading. I’m a huge reader. I’m not a visual video person. Again, maybe that’s just the journalist in me and also making myself feel old here, but when I was in journalism, there wasn’t a lot of multimedia. Obviously, now that’s drastically changed, but I was writing when it was still the hey days of print media and people were still buying newspapers.

So, I think I’m a very big reading person. So, I love the tactile feeling of reading someone’s words on paper. And I’m that person that dogears the pages and highlights everything. And I think just hearing how other people do business, you don’t always have to take your ideas, but hearing how somebody else does it, it either gives you a great idea or it’s the complete opposite. You’re like, I don’t want to do that or I don’t want to become that. And also, I think there’s freedom that comes from knowing what you don’t want to do and what you don’t want to be. So, I think it’s not always looking for the answer. Sometimes, it’s looking for the non-answer that can be really motivating.

CAMILLE [18:06]

I love that. And I love that it’s real-life moments too where it’s like where are you feeling your most in your zone or in that realm of this is my speed? Because I think so often, I know that this happens for me where I’m like, if I’m on TikTok or Instagram and I’m scrolling and I just get sucked in, and even if it’s content that doesn’t benefit my life, I’m worried about someone’s gluten-free allergy and how they’re making something. I’m not gluten-free, but I’m absorbed in the content because it’s meant to captivate you. And so, if I’m not tricky, I can get lost in that. And then, all of a sudden, I’m watching transitions of 20-somethings in different outfits. And I’m like, what am I doing?

So, I love that. Creating space and time for real-life inspiration, being in a facial, being out in the woods. I actually recently interviewed Leah Remillet, who does dry erase board in her shower because she said that she will write notes and brain dumps that come down there. And I was like, that is a really good idea.

TAHNEE [19:14]

I love that.

CAMILLE [19:15]

Yeah. Write in the shower or she and her husband will write notes to each other or their kids leave and write notes to each other. And I think that sometimes, we forget that it doesn’t have to come through the screen. It can come through those other moments. So, I really love that.

TAHNEE [19:28]

Yeah. I like to say that movement is my meditation and that’s because I’ve just tried to meditate and I’ve tried yoga so many times. And I 100% appreciate it. I’m just not patient enough to invest in it fully to make it work for me.

But I do find I love running. So, when I go out for a run, that movement, I don’t actually listen to music. I listen to podcasts when I run. That, for me, is my white space time. And I just love, like what you’re saying, go for a run in the woods. I lived in North Vancouver for 8 years and we lived right at the foot of the mountain. So, I go for trail runs all the time.

And without a doubt, that’s when my best ideas came. It’s just that uninterrupted white space that in our day-to-day life is impossible to find and just having information thrown at us from every angle all day long. And it’s like that analogy of when your computer doesn’t work, you need to turn it off and someone says, “Have you turned it off and on again?” It’s like, how do we do that to our brain?

CAMILLE [20:26]

I love that. I’ve always thought of exercise as the washing machine of the mind where it just shakes things up and it’s like, okay, what’s coming out? What’s the good stuff? What’s in there? So, I love that you shared that. I’m really curious as you’ve referred to talking to people and women especially about charging their worth. And you’ve written copy on it probably dozens of times. What is advice that you would give to women who are wanting to charge more and are hesitant to that? What are the words that you help them through with that?

TAHNEE [20:59]

I always say your pricing should be based on your knowledge, your experience, and the quality of your product or service, not someone else’s perception of your value. And to me, what that means is when we set our prices, we shouldn’t be saying to ourselves, what will so and so think of this price? And I know that’s so much easier said than done, but your price shouldn’t be set in relation to what your competitors charge. It should be set in the result that you can bring.

So, an example for this for me was many, many years ago, I was working with a financial coach and she talked about how she set her prices and there’s this joke out there that when anyone’s setting prices whether it’s for an online course or a new product, it’s like $4.99, $8.99. It’s like throw random numbers out to see what sticks. And there is absolutely an element of that, don’t get me wrong.

But she was saying yes, it’s doing that, but it’s also saying if you’re in a business where you can actually quantify someone’s outcome, their result, which obviously in a financial type business, that’s much easy to do than something like marketing or copywriting is. But she said, if I can see the outcome that investing with me is going to bring someone’s business in 6- or 12-months’ time, I’m worth a percentage of that reward that they’re going to get.

And I’m not saying it’s a specific percentage, but it’s not about the 2 hours you spend with that person, it’s the outcome that they’re going to get from those 2 hours of being with you. So, I don’t necessarily believe in a pricing formula, but I do believe in your pricing exciting you.

So, I always say to my clients when they’re looking at, can I go up and be higher than my ceiling? And I say to them, whatever you’re currently charging, do you get excited to get out of bed and go to work or does it feel like a bit of a drag? And if they get “uh,” I’m like, that’s your answer. And then, I’ll play the game with them. I’ll be like, okay, what do you currently charge? And let’s say they say $1,500 for a service. I’ll be like, okay, I’m going to throw numbers at you and tell me when you want to get out of bed. I’ll be like, $1,750, $1,800, $1,998. I just throw numbers.

And then, there’ll be a number every time. And they’re like, “Oh.: I’m like, that’s your number. And then, they’re like, “I can’t charge that. No one will pay that.” And sure, maybe they won’t, but you don’t know that first up and also you can do things to communicate your value so people understand why they should pay that.

And I think there’s a really big difference between someone saying, I can’t afford that versus that’s a lot of money. They’re two different things. If you go shopping for a new pair of boots, there’ll be that one price that you’re like, I can’t afford that. What that actually means is you don’t value that boot. If you see a boot that you really love and it’s like double the price in your mind you intend on spending, if you really love it, you will 100% find a way to justify that purchase.

And it’s the same. If you find a service provider that you really resonate with, you binge their marketing content and their feeds and their email list and whatever it is and every time you just get this feeling like, I just want to work with this person. You will find a way to justify that investment because they have already invested in a relationship with you when you haven’t paid them a cent.

CAMILLE [24:37]

I love that. No wonder you’re good with words. I think that that is such a good way of creating that clarity of value where it’s like I heard someone say something like, first, what excites you? And also, if you’re looking at the value of your time for an hourly wage, that’s really hard to define. But if you’re looking at your years of experience, the amount of time and money you could save them by working with them especially if this is a service-based business, then there is so much value there.

And I think women especially have a hard time of getting to that place of valuing their services in that way where, and maybe this is a gender bias of mine, but I don’t think men struggle with that as much as women do because we are trained to be a little more subservient and to be a people pleaser and to serve and to love and to give and to nurture. That’s more of what we generally are told to do.

And so, to stand into our own shoes and say, no, I’m worth it and this is how I can change your business or your life or whatever it is, I think there’s so much strength in that. And a lot of times, it’s getting your mind there. So, as a coach, how do you help people get their mindset in that place of feeling like they’re worthy of it?

TAHNEE [26:00]

Yeah. I think the biggest part of that for me is conversation. It sounds silly, but mostly when I work with a client for the first time, it’s usually a 2-hour strategy session and I invest a lot of time in that session getting to understand their business. And we do a bit of that in our questionnaire beforehand as well, but I go into that strategy sessions with so many questions for them because I’ve got the black and white answer that they put on my intake questionnaire, but I want to dig deeper.

And it’s when I dig and ask those questions that they start to communicate more and more and more about what they do. And when I can repeat that back to them and sometimes there might be a touch of copywriting in it like tweaking the language to how you recommunicate that message. But often, we don’t know what we’re good at because we’re innately good at it. And I don’t mean that in a full of yourself way, but I do think that is a big part of why as women we struggle to charge what we’re wroth because so often, we create businesses, I don’t like to say by accident.

It’s like there’s so much work that goes into this. This was not an accident, but often, our businesses have come about because we realize we had this innate skill at something, whatever it is. And that becomes a business. And then, we think, this comes too easy for me. This only took me half an hour or whatever it is. I can’t charge $500 for something that took me 30 minutes. It’s like, why not? Why can’t you?

And it’s that example of you might have heard it before, it’s like Picasso in a café and someone comes over and asks him to draw a sketch on a napkin and he does. And then, he hands it to the woman and says, “That’ll be $1,500.” I have no idea what the amount is, but it’s a large sum of money. And the person’s like, “What? That took you 15 seconds.” He’s like, “No, it took my entire career.”

And I think it’s just that example. It’s not about how long it takes you to do the thing. It’s everything that goes into you being able to do the thing. So, when it comes to helping women stand in their power and knowing how to charge what they’re worth, sometimes I think we all just need encouragement. And we can have friends. We can have amazing partners, but it’s not the same as someone who’s in business who gets it, who can hear you say something that was hard that you overcame and can say to you, “Just stop a second. That was a really big deal and you handled that like a boss, like a CEO. Can you just own that for a second?”

And I just think so many of us in this business are on our own and we might have some contractors like we might have a VA or a bookkeeper or some freelancers we work with, there’s other people around us, but it is also a really isolating experience to be a business owner. And you can say I’m not a words of affirmation person. I don’t need the pat on the back. You know what? We all do sometimes. We all need the pat on the back sometimes.

And when we can have someone reflect that back to us, so it can be like, that was worth something, yeah. Actually, maybe that was worth a whole lot more than what I charge for it. And I’m not saying you’re going to listen to this conversation and double your price tomorrow. That’s not what I mean. But I do think we should always be trying to increase our price. We should never settle and say, I’ve reached my ceiling because I don’t believe that that’s a thing.

CAMILLE [29:23]

I love that. And I want to ask you as far as conversion with copywriting, what have you seen as far as marketing goes to be the most effective, let’s say, for a service-based businesses, coaches, people who are building businesses? What do you think has been the most effective strategy for actually getting clients? What do you suggest people do as far as a path, I guess the steps of how to get success in that regard?

TAHNEE [29:50]

I can’t say enough encouraging things about email marketing because I just think everyone is catching on to the sales page. Everyone knows that sales pages have a formula and they’re all trying to get something out of you in order to convert you somewhere. And I love a good sales page. Don’t get me wrong. I’m a sales page junkie. I will read all the different ways that they’re done because I find it from a psychological and a strategic sense fascinating and I love it.

But I do think there’s just become this movement towards the big flashy sales page and to be completely honest, it’s never going to work if you haven’t invested in the relationship in the first place. I shouldn’t say never. It can. There’s always going to be the people that make the impulse purchase and that’s fantastic. But if you’re looking at longevity of a sustainable business, the best investment that you can make is in building a community of people that know, like, and trust you.

So, in terms of what that copy is, for me, it’s the showing up in your social feeds regularly. It’s the sending the newsletter more than twice a year. And then, people say, “What do I write in my newsletter?” I’m like, “Send me a DM and I could give you 15 different newsletter topic ideas.”

It really does just depend on what your expertise is, but I always say the more you serve, the less you have to sell. So, the more that we can do to serve our community valuable content that brings value to their life and helps make their business life easier or whatever it is that your ideal client does, the less you have to go in on the hard sell.

And I think again, as women, we can often struggle with the sell. We give, give, give, give, but we never ask for the sale. So, a part of it is standing up and owning your expertise and being willing to ask for the sale, but I think it’s so much easy to feel confident doing that when you know that you have served so well with your content in advance of that. You haven’t just gone in for cold sale, having bought no value beforehand.

So, that’s a roundabout way of answering your question of what works with conversion, but I think what works with conversion is nurturing a relationship and get to nurture them. You have to have them on your email list because you want to invest in a real estate you won. We’ve all seen when there’s been a Instagram updates and things have gone pear-shaped and people have lost their accounts. And as devastating as that is, we’ve been warned of this so many times.

And I think eventually, we’re all going to be like, why didn’t I start that email list 12 months ago? It’s like, yes, why didn’t we start that email list 12 months ago? So, I think for me, that’s one of the first things I encourage people to do very, very early in their business, even if you’ve not written the email yet, just start the list.

CAMILLE [32:40]

And do you suggest that people have a freemium? What do you see is the best freemium for people to capture people’s attention and want to sign up for the email?

TAHNEE [32:50]

Yeah. So, I love having some kind of lead gen freebie that you give people. It has to bring value. It can’t be a sales pitch. There should be no part of it that’s like, “And then, you buy this thing from me.” It should be 100%, “Here’s this thing that can help you.” But it doesn’t always have to be a PDF that you make.

Again, depending on what your expertise is, some great ones I’ve seen have been a 15-minute meditation you can do to get yourself in a productive headspace. So, it’s like an audio recording you can listen to. For some people, I’ve even myself done once a month I block off an hour of my calendar and I do 15-minute free mini sessions. So, there’s no prepare research that I can do in advance, but you book a time, we get on the phone, and it’s like a taste of working with me. So, that’s another way, but you only get access to sign up for those if you’re on my email list.

So, you could be telling people if they want access to free mini session with you, they need to be on your list. It could be a free webinar that you run. So, that’s more of a one-off thing. So, you’re getting a burst of subscribers at a particular point versus an on-going freebie that’s out there in the world. But I think it’s about knowing how your ideal client likes to consume information.

And I don’t think there’s necessarily one answer to that. I always encourage people to have multiple different types of lead gens, freebies, whatever you want to call them based on the different ways that they know how their ideal clients like to consume their information. But the number one thing that I would say is they need to get something in return. They’re the one that needs to get something out of it more than you.

So, I also love quizzes like finding your interior design style or whether it’s, yeah, a survey that categorizes you into whether it’s the type of writer you are or the type of business you are. Whatever it might be, people love a good quiz.

I would just say once they have got on your list and have received that thing from you, you can’t then just ghost them. It’s like I always say going on a first date, but it’s been a really long time since I’ve been on a first date, but if you go on the first date, and then you hear nothing, you’re like, okay. Cool. Bye, kind of thing.

Whereas if someone follows up and nurtures that conversation relationship with you, you’re more likely to continue to be interested in them. You might not go on to be in a relationship with them in terms of turning into with the analogy of a paying client, that might take much longer to happen. But you’ve at least maintained their interest in your brand.

And there’s thing that’s called I think the 2-week train. So, when someone follows you on Instagram, you’ve got 2 weeks to continue engaging them in order for your feed to continue showing up in their feed. But if they follow you, but then you don’t post for 2 weeks, you’re lost in their algorithm.

So, I think for me it’s the same thing with the lead gen. They’ve downloaded the freebie from you, whatever that is. You’ve got a 2-week window in order to remind them that you still exist and you’re going to bring them more value than just that one freebie that they got. And if you don’t take that opportunity, it’s not lost forever, but it’s a harder win back of their attention.

CAMILLE [36:05]

For sure. And for real with Instagram, you are lost. I think it’s really fascinating to me because my old account that was converted from My Mommy Style, my blog account, now to @camillewalker.co, the ability that I have to connect with and latch on to people viewers on that account that’s much larger is way harder than my smaller account, which is the @callmeceopodcast account because it’s newer and I guess people are more into the niche thing.

But it’s interesting because you yourself, I myself have thought, yeah, what about Rachel? I haven’t seen her in my feed for years. Where is she? Yeah. I’m still following her, but you really have to fight for that spot, which I think makes email even more appealing because you don’t have to do that. You don’t have to be fighting for attention as much in that way. Would you agree?

TAHNEE [37:05]

100% agree, yeah. And I think that we’re all a bit more guarded now in how freely give over our email addresses because we know everyone’s trying to market to us. Every time you make a purchase in the shop, they’re like, “Can I grab your email?” And I always stop and I’m like, “What would you like my email for? Do I imagine that you’re a brand I’m going to want to receive emails from?”

But I think we’re all a bit more cautious about that now. So, I think we really need to be conscious that when someone does give us their email, that’s a big deal. I’m always so grateful. I’ll get a notification that someone has joined my email list. I’m like, that means something to me. That’s valuable that they’re giving me space in their life. And I think we should never take that for granted.

CAMILLE [37:46]

Yeah, I love it. This has been so fantastic. I would love to hear just touching in on motherhood. We didn’t even talk about your kids and I don’t do that. I want to hear about your kids and I also want to hear about how growing your business has affected your life and maybe sometimes saving hacks that you’ve been able to implement and help so that you can be present with your kids and also run your business.

TAHNEE [38:07]

Yeah. I have two kids. I have Lydia who is 5 and Jacob who is 2. So, Lydia was born when we were living still in Canada, and then Jacob was born a few months after we moved back to Australia in 2020. We got insanely lucky with our relocation and we got back to Australia 2 weeks before the first COVID lockdown happened, which was a very big thank you universe. We were meant to be home. My husband is Australian as well. So, we were meant to be home and close to family.

But my business, I started when Lydia was maybe 8 months old. I’ve been doing the things that were part of my business just like everyone, a bit of a side hustle. Yeah, exactly. And I’ve been doing it in contracting roles in loads of different capacities, but I was like, no, this is a thing. I’m going to make this a thing.

And I think again, like so many people, becoming a mother made me say and made me go, I want to be there. But I want to get to choose. I want that flexibility. I don’t want to be asking for someone else’s permission to be at the school assembly. I want that freedom and I think that for me was the tipping point of I’m doing this. This is a real thing. This isn’t a side hustle. I’m going all in here. This is going to be hard, but it’s going to be worth it.

And it has been. It’s been a million times worth it. And yeah, there’s the downsides of having two children and not having actual maternal leave, but that’s fine too because what I’ve learned about myself is that I’m a better mom when I can also engage my brain in other ways. And I personally loved that I could have a little 8-week-old in my lap and by choice send an email or by choice go on the social media.

For me, it wasn’t about having to do it. I know there’s that big negative thing around people hating seeing pictures of moms on Instagram like breastfeeding a baby and being on their laptop. It’s glorifying the hustle. Yeah, sure. That’s one perception of it, but for me, when I look at that, I have a different emotional response to it and that’s such an individual thing. And I was the person that was like, I see you in that moment and I love that that felt fulfilling for you in that moment. I hope that that’s why you’re sharing it. I hope that that’s how it felt, but that’s how it’s been for me.

So, I took 3 months, backed off from my business when Jacob, my second, was born. But now, they are both in preschool. They go 4 days a week. So, my work week is structured is I have a day that’s for my business. I have a day that’s for strategy. I have a day that’s for copywriting, and then I have a day that’s for my retainer, my regular clients.

So, I didn’t always do it, but that for me, has been a massive productivity hack for me to have days devoted to really specific parts of my business because I was just a ping pong ball like bouncing around, never actually getting the most of my time. So, that made such a big difference. And then Fridays, we have both my kids and we call it adventure day and they get to decide whatever in the world we do on adventure day. And Jacob’s obviously getting his language now and hearing his little voice say, “Adventure Day!” is just the best thing in the world.

And that, for me, is why I run my business. Lydia starts school next year and to know that I can go to the athletics carnival and I can go to the swim carnival and I don’t have to pick and choose which one I can get to. There’s no greater reason for me to want to have my own business than that.

CAMILLE [41:46]

That bit just makes my heart so happy. That is what I want for every single mom. That’s why I created my 60 Days to VA program is exactly so people could say that, that I didn’t have to choose and I could do both and you can have the and. So, we have been so richly fed today. I’ve loved our conversation. Please tell everyone where they can find you online.

TAHNEE [42:10]

Thank you. At www.thestrategystudio.com and the same on Instagram, @thestrategystudio and on my website, you can find freebies to give you ideas for marketing content, for when you get writer’s block, how do you overcome it? I always say my DM’s open and I genuinely mean that. I love it when clients send me a screenshot of a new website header being like, “This doesn’t feel right. Can you quickly tell me why this doesn’t work?” I’m like, “Sure, would love to.” That kind of stuff fuels me. Love it. So, please reach out. I love having conversations in my DMs.

CAMILLE [42:42]

Perfect. Thank you again so much for being on the show.

TAHNEE [42:45]

Thank you for having me. I really loved this conversation.

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CAMILLE [42:52]

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you were inspired or felt like there was something that really rang true to you especially in terms of finding a business that works for you in the way that you create the business you love, consider becoming a virtual assistant and take my 60 Days to VA program. I am matching up entrepreneurs with my VAs all of the time. And it’s been successful matchups and every side is so happy.

And it’s really, really wonderful for me because that’s what I created the business for was to help other people to create the life they love and get income as well. So, I hope that you enjoyed this episode. Please feel free to leave a rating and review that helps other people to see it and discover it as well so that we can help other moms create lives they love. I love you. I mean it and I’ll see you next time.

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