149: Redefining Motherhood: Hot Takes on Building a Fulfilled Life with Hannah Olson

HANNAH OLSON [00:00]

And I want every woman to love motherhood because she understands what it is and to love that relationship for what it is because it is such a beautiful, wonderful thing. And I think it gets so confused and misunderstood in our society, like you were saying, with the negativity on social media and stuff and so.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE WALKER [00:28]

So, you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

[MUSIC]

Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. I am your host, Camille Walker. If this is your first time here, welcome. If you've been here before, welcome back. This show is all about embracing motherhood and also what it's like to run a business, run a home, and the passion and the purpose that are behind the stories of the women who run said businesses and homes.

And every single week, I am so inspired by the messages and the stories that are being shared. And every once in a while, I will attend a networking event or I'll go somewhere where I meet someone and I think my audience, you, as a listener, needs to hear this. And that is certainly the situation here.

Today, we have Hannah Olson on the line. And she is the owner of @freckledhan on Instagram. And her messaging is all about redefining motherhood, what is the actual relationship of motherhood and what that means and what the element of caregiving is and how they are different, not to mention, running a house and a home and being a spouse and all the other things that were called to do.

So, I'm really excited to dive into today's episode. I think you'll find it very inspiring and maybe help you to redefine motherhood in a way that helps you to feel uplifted and to realize that you are valuable as a mother and that role that you hold. So, Hannah, thank you so much for being on the episode with us today.

HANNAH [02:12]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about our conversation.

CAMILLE [02:16]

Yeah. So, let's introduce everyone to you. You're pregnant with your sixth baby, you guys. I thought it was her third. I was like, "Oh, this is your third." She's like, "No, that was three babies ago. This is my sixth." Holy smokes. And I asked her like, "How are you feeling?" Because I hear and from experience of having four, I feel like with each pregnancy, I just got more and more tired. Has that been your experience?

HANNAH [02:40]

I don't know that I noticed being more tired with each subsequent pregnancy. But, for sure, this pregnancy, I've never been so tired in my whole life. So, I don't know if it was just like saving up. I mean, obviously, you're more tired when you're pregnant. But I was still a functioning level of tired. This first trimester that I finally just got out of was unreal, how tired I was. I was literally sleeping 12 hours a night and would have to take one or two naps to be able to make it through the day. It was crazy.

CAMILLE [03:12]

Wow. That's amazing. And I remember with my fourth pregnancy, it was the first time I remember sitting down somewhere and not remember falling asleep like in the middle of the day. And thinking, wait a minute, what just happened? Waking up and then realizing I'd fallen asleep or falling asleep in a movie theater, I typically never do that. So, the fact that that started happening, I was like, this is another level, so I'm sure.

HANNAH [03:41]

I'll be really interested because I pretty much fall asleep in any movie at this point, even for just watching movie at home or whatever. I always fell asleep. And that did not used to be the case. So, I'll be curious to see if that's just me forever now or if after. So, my oldest is seven right now.

CAMILLE [04:02]

Wait. Your oldest is seven. And you're pregnant with your sixth.

HANNAH [04:08]

Yeah.

CAMILLE [04:08]

Okay. So, tell me what you're going to say. And then, tell me the ages of your kids. Because now, I'm like, yeah.

HANNAH [04:13]

I was just going to say that I'll be curious to see once I've gone a full year without being pregnant if I'll be able to actually stay awake for movies. Because right now, that's nothing.

CAMILLE [04:25]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. So, oldest is seven. Tell us the ages, genders, all of them.

HANNAH [04:31]

I have one girl and four boys. And they're all 18 months apart. And then, I actually had a miscarriage earlier this year, which would have put this baby about 18 months apart. But now, this baby will be two years after the last. So, the first five are 18 months apart, and then number five and six are two years apart.

CAMILLE [04:50]

Wow. Amazing. So, this is something really stepping into motherhood was a whirlwind because as soon as you're pregnant and getting that one on to the next stages of even toddling, walking, you're pregnant again. Has it been a goal for you to have a certain number of kids or what has been the process? I think that's amazing. My mom had five in eight years. I had four in eight years. So, the fact you've had six and seven, I'm just like, whoa.

HANNAH [05:21]

The sixth isn't born yet. So, it will be six in eight years. But no, it's actually interesting because I do think that a lot of what I have learned, there were a couple of reasons. First of all, I came from a family of six kids. I always said, I wanted to have five or six kids. I always thought it'd be five. I really wanted to feel after my fifth was born that I was done and I just couldn't get there. But yes, this is the final chapter of my family. I feel very confident with that, which is honestly really exciting. There are sad things about that too. But just feeling complete in that way is something that's really exciting to me.

But it is interesting because I definitely had a lot of martyrdom mentalities around motherhood. And I always knew that I wanted to be a mom and that I would have kids. That was never a question in my mind. And it was always very much, if nothing else, it was like my religious duty to have children. And I absolutely do not regret having my children in any way, shape, or form.

Just as I've learned more and I've unpacked a lot of what I believed about motherhood, I think that part of it, I do like having our kids close together. And there are lots of advantages to that that I have found. At the same time, I think there was some element of like I have to live my life for these children for as long as they are little, right? Once they grow up, then I can live my life again for me. And so, I want to get them here as fast as possible so that I can go back to living my life. Does that make sense?

CAMILLE [07:04]

Yeah, it does.

HANNAH [07:04]

Because I had this, I had a very like, okay, once you become a mom, once you start having kids, everything that you want for you needs to be put on the shelf, needs to be put in a box, needs to be put away. Because now, you're living for your children until they are grown. And then, you can be like your own person again.

And so, I think a lot of that deeply internalized messaging around motherhood and what that meant for me and what that sacrifice looked like for me, it was like, okay, if I'm going to have to do that either way, let's get it down as fast as possible.

And, again, I am really grateful and spacing of kids is something that we have so much less control over them. We think we do anyways. But I do love having a bunch of little kids. It's really fun for me. But it is interesting to just see like, okay, I wonder if I had thought about it differently? I don't know. You just don't know

CAMILLE [07:59]

Yeah. It's interesting, especially with what I do and interviewing women every single week and their different perspectives of what motherhood is and the right amount of children for them and what it means for them to be a successful involved mother and the definition of that, it is so diverse. And it's really taught me a lot about what motherhood can look like.

One thing that stuck out to me the very most is that when someone told me once, the only reason why you are experiencing shame or guilt around motherhood is if and when your values don't line up with the way you're spending your time or the way you're interpreting the relationship.

And I thought, oh my gosh, that is so true. Because I can talk to a mom in New York City where one kid is all they ever planned on and more than enough and I talk to another mom in Utah where eight kids has always been the plan. They even wanted to go to 12. But they stopped to date. And that's what it was for them.

And so, I love that it's not that you're coming to this conversation of motherhood is so heavy and I hate being a mom. It's I love being a mom. But that doesn't define me entirely, nor does it define my role. And so, tell me how you got into this place of exploring what motherhood means and how you are redefining it.

HANNAH [09:30]

Yeah. A lot of it came just initially. So, I said I always wanted to have kids and I thought of it more as the duty than anything, I think, to have kids, especially babies because I've never really been someone that loved babies or wanted to hold people's babies or anything like that.

And so, we found out we were pregnant with our first unexpectedly. And from the outside, it seemed like ideal timing. We've been married for a couple of years. I was just about to graduate from college. My husband, he was a year behind me, but we were in a financially okay place. And, like I said, I was graduated.

And just from the outside, it seemed like ideal timing, but I went into a little bit of depression feels like too strong a word, but I was honestly dreading becoming a mom because of what I believed it was going to mean for me and because of that weight that you mentioned of like, okay, not only the responsibility of making sure that they turned into a good person, but also just all of the tasks. There's just so much and so much hearing about women losing themselves out of motherhood and just the phrase "motherhood is hard."

I felt like people were just pounding me over the head with that phrase like, "Are you sure you're prepared for how hard this is going to be? This is really hard." And it was like to the point where I honestly questioned why people chose to have kids for any other reason than the fact that it was a duty to God basically.

I would ask my husband that all the time. I'm like, "Why do people even have kids?" And he was excited about having kids the whole thing, but he couldn't really articulate to me why. And so, it was really difficult to navigate that pregnancy of just feeling continually and on social media too, I'm sure, it's one of those things where you find what you look for. And because I was already in a pretty negative headspace, it seemed like everything was validating that story, that motherhood was going to be the worst thing that ever happened to me.

So, once my daughter was finally born, I realized like, okay, there's something special here that I wasn't anticipating. And I get it, I see this now. I get why people like this, but also they're not wrong. I'm doing a lot of really hard things. And so, that was what led me on this path of trying to articulate what is motherhood anyways?

Because, yes, I'm doing a lot of hard things. Being home alone with the baby all day is hard. Being up in the night with a baby is hard. Breastfeeding is hard. Yeah, those are hard things. But are those things motherhood? What is it that's actually making you her mom?

And it wasn't until years later that I finally had the language that was like, oh, hold on a second. Yeah, those things like being home with a baby, changing diapers, feeding babies, making dinner, those are aspects of caregiving. What motherhood is, is the actual relationship. And you can use those tasks to build the relationship. But also, you don't have to.

I was looking at my husband who would leave in the morning for work and then come home eight, nine hours later, he wasn't doing a lot of the caregiving things that I was doing. And yet, oh, look, he had a really great relationship with our daughter too. And so, that was when I realized, again, it was years later after I'd had a couple of more kids, that I finally had this epiphany that was like, oh, my gosh, I have been equating these as the same thing.

Because as a society, we label everything that has to do with children, motherhood. Driving carpool is motherhood. Making dinner is motherhood. Doing laundry is motherhood, right? And so, it wasn't until I finally had the clarity to start breaking down everything and being like, wait, no, doing laundry is not motherhood. Driving carpools is not motherhood. Those things are things I can do sure as their mom, but they're not making me my kid's mom. Someone else could do them. And I would still be the mom, just like my husband is still their dad.

And that shift was so powerful to me because I was able to take that weight off because I realized any of these tasks that were weighing me down was something that I was in some way or another choosing to do, either because I wanted to do it or because I felt like it strengthened the relationship. Otherwise, there was no point.

And I could start reframing a lot of these thoughts I was having. Where people would always say, motherhood is hard, I was able to start thinking of that as caregiving is hard because caregiving is so hard.

Now, I will say relationships are also hard, right? And motherhood has relationships. So, yes, you could also say motherhood's hard. But usually when people use that phrase, they're talking about being at home with young kids during the day.

Another perfect example of this is motherhood is lonely. I used to hear that all the time. I used to think that all the time. Now, it's like, oh, caregiving is lonely. And even just that tiny shift took such a weight off of motherhood because then motherhood was like it's a relationship.

And, yes, relationships are complicated. They have their own difficulties that you're working through. But the job aspect of caregiving, yeah, lots of people have hard jobs and that just removes the pressure of my kids from it. Does that make sense?

CAMILLE [14:48]

Absolutely. I think that you're really onto something here, especially I think the message of motherhood being lonely and being hard and all of those tasks that you're talking about, the laundry, the dishes, the caregiving, the house, the babies, that does get lumped into the label of motherhood.

And honestly, I've had a lot of people who I've met younger people who aren't mothers yet, who will say, "I love when you share content online that you love being a mom because most of the stuff I see online is that being a mom is so hard. And so why would you ever even want to have kids?"

And statistically, I think you could look at the numbers of people having children or wanting motherhood or seeing motherhood in a positive light as going down and down and down. I think that the messaging around what being what a mother is, is making it so people are thinking it's this horrible idea, which is really sad, because being a mother is so wonderful.

Does it come with hard roles that can be involved in all those things the caretaking in the house and all the things? Yes, but I love that you are defining it in a way that it makes it so it doesn't have to be the same thing. I think that is such a refreshing way to look at it and a healthier way to look at it.

Because then, we can separate our relationship or even the option of holding resentment towards children or spouse or whomever to creating more of a healthy relationship with the whole thing. So, yeah, I think that's amazing.

HANNAH [16:29]

Absolutely. Because I think the counter argument to people who only spoke positively about motherhood on social media is other people are like, "But you're not acknowledging the hard and the hard is there, too." And that's where I feel like it's so helpful to have the language to separate the two because there are a lot of hard aspects that come with children.

And so, if we can just label those as caregiving for children, it's hard, right? And it's so much easier to talk about it. And then, it's like, but I love my kids. I don't always love caregiving. But I always love my kids. And so, it's so easy to be like, I can acknowledge the hard parts of caregiving. And I can acknowledge the hard parts of the relationship, but not confuse them for each other. Because so much of the hard that we see talked about on social media is actually, like you were saying, the managing the household, the caregiving for young children, that kind of thing.

CAMILLE [17:28]

Cooking every meal, yeah.

HANNAH [17:29]

Exactly. So, on the days that I work on my business, I have a nanny. And she deals with all the same hard things that I deal with on the days that I'm the primary caregiver, right? But she's not their mom. So, she's their caregiver. And so, I just think it's so important that we can see the difference between those two.

And I know for a lot of women, I've been doing this for years. And so, it's very, very clear to me to see the difference. But for a lot of women, this is the first time they're hearing this. And they're like, whoa, I'm so confused. But it is really helpful to just every time you think of something as motherhood, just pause for a second and think like, wait, is that the relationship? Okay. Let's change how I'm phrasing that then.

CAMILLE [18:11]

I really liked the way that you correlated the relationship that your husband has with the children, that he has gone at work and he can still maintain a wonderful relationship. And he still is their father. I think that that really puts it in a light of like, oh, yeah, that doesn't seem.

HANNAH [18:28]

We have examples of this.

CAMILLE [18:29]

Yes. Because I think honestly, there are a lot of women that I talked to, some who work inside the home, some who work outside the home, and many who will feel guilty for wanting to escape because being at home every day can be mundane and hard.

HANNAH [18:47]

And lonely.

CAMILLE [18:48]

And lonely. And they'll feel guilt for wanting to expand beyond that or to build beyond that or even work outside the home. And there's this guilt that comes with that, which is crazy, because men aren't feeling that way about having or wanting a job. And there have been times that I've had a discussion with my husband, where if I'm lamenting about, "This is really hard." And if he's ever said like, "Oh, I'll switch. I'll swap you." I'm like, "No, you wouldn't."

I think that it can be a grass is greener situation. But a lot of times, it's needing validation and also more division of the caregiving or the household or the dinner. And each couple has to figure that out for themselves. But I think that looking at it in that respect or in that light is such a healthy perspective because it can help alleviate that shame or that guilt.

If you're having feelings of being overwhelmed or needing help or wanting to ask for maybe in a more equal approach to things, what has been the biggest thing that you've heard from women that you've coached or who you've helped through this?

HANNAH [20:05]

Yeah, I want to touch on what you were just saying really quick first because I completely agree. And I think that is one of the costs that comes from equating everything with motherhood. Because if making dinner is motherhood, then all of a sudden, if I don't make dinner, I'm a bad mom.

And when you realize, oh, making dinner isn't motherhood, making dinner, making sure my kids are fed so that they can be their best selves, sure, that's part of motherhood, but making the meal itself? No, it does not matter if you make the meal or if someone else makes the meal.

And also, like you were saying, how they have this skill of giving, letting things go or outsourcing or turning things over to the husband or whatever, the irony, I don't know, whatever the word is, but the sad part of that is that I believe that in so many cases, what would actually be better for the relationship is if they were able to let some of those things go.

But because they're holding so tightly, that's where resentment can more likely come in. Because it's like you're doing everything for these kids and they're not even appreciating it. And you've lost yourself and you don't know who you are. But you're doing it for them because you love them.

When ultimately, the best thing would be to be meeting your own needs first and modeling that for them. Because your relationship with your kids can only be as strong as your relationship with yourself. And so, making sure that being a whole person to be able to then feed into that relationship is so much better for them and for you than being so possessive about keeping all of the tasks in your control.

CAMILLE [21:40]

Yeah. Which can be easy to do, I think, as a mom because when a baby is brought into this world, most often, it's the mom that is providing every need for that baby physically, emotionally, middle of the night feedings.

And I think that it can be a tradition or a sense of normalcy that we do everything for them, that it can be hard or feel opposite of what nature intended if we allow other people to help or if we ask for help or if we get to a place where we're desperate for help. And I think that that is really unhealthy for us as moms. We need to be taking care of ourselves first so that the foundation of the family doesn't fall apart.

HANNAH [22:33]

Right. I agree. Okay. Sorry. Back to your question.

CAMILLE [22:36]

Yeah. So, a good place to start, I like that you mentioned seeing that, as a woman, you need to nourish yourself first. Let's dive into that a little bit. What does that look like in your eyes? What are some established self-love, self-care routines that can happen before we move on to not establishing but building and nourishing the relationship with our children?

HANNAH [23:04]

Yeah. Obviously, we hear the term self-care thrown out all the time, right? But a lot of people are like, what does that mean? What does it look like? And I heard a quote, it was actually during COVID or shortly after when everyone was in shelter in place. And I think collectively, we can say, as a society, our collective mental health was lower than it normally is, right?

And anyway, I heard this quote. I wish I could credit the source. But basically, it was self-care is having something to look forward to. And how during COVID, that was taken away from us, right? Nobody had anything they were looking forward to you anymore because you weren't going anywhere. You weren't doing anything. You weren't seeing anybody. That was just not a thing anymore.

And so, I really love that definition of self-care because that makes it so individual and so simple. Some people will say, going to the grocery store by yourself is not a form of self-care. Hey, if you're looking forward to going to the grocery store by yourself, sure, that can be self-care. Is that something that I look forward to? No, not usually. It could be, right?

Or even a shower or a bath or whatever it is, having something that you're looking forward to that then you actually follow through and do is self-care. So, for me, I really look forward to the days where I get to work on my business and create content or do that kind of stuff. I really look forward to that.

I'm part of a podcast club, actually. So, there's a group of women in my neighborhood. We get together once a month and we discuss a podcast episode that we listened to. Just things like that that don't have to be super crazy or big. Date nights are a great thing that I look forward to. So, just choosing something that you're looking forward to and then doing it. I think it can be that simple.

CAMILLE [24:58]

I like that. I don't think I've ever heard it quite put that way. And what I love about that too is that one of the main things that I love to gift and to receive is experiences with people I love. And that can be with myself, as you put it that way, and I'd never thought of it that way. But I will plan one-on-one dates with my kids, my spouse, or even vacations.

And that's actually a big part of what motivated me to start my business in the first place was because I wanted to create experiences with my children around exploring new things together. That was a big piece of foundation of relationship with my siblings and my parents and even my grandparents.

And at the end of the day, relationships are what mean the most to me. So, I love that it's a focus on quality time spent with yourself. I had never quite thought of it like that. That's really interesting. I like that.

HANNAH [25:51]

I think it can be with other people too, but yeah.

CAMILLE [25:53]

Yeah, sure. It's that same concept.

HANNAH [25:55]

Either one, yeah.

CAMILLE [25:56]

The quality time that you're putting effort because a big part of that is putting effort into knowing what brings happiness and fulfillment for you. And for some that could be a bath with a book. For others, that could be writing content for business. For others, that could be going to a feature walk.

HANNAH [26:16]

Going to a bike ride. Yeah, exactly.

CAMILLE [26:17]

Or all the above. I like all those things. So, I really like that it's a focus of making plans for self-care on purpose, that it's something that you're anticipating, something you're looking forward to.

HANNAH [26:28]

And the intentionality behind it, yeah.

CAMILLE [26:28]

Yes, the intention. I love that. So, now that we're spending time focusing on that intention with ourselves, what would you say the next steps are for establishing those roles of relationship versus self-care? Sorry, relationship versus the tasks of caregiving is what I meant to say.

HANNAH [26:29]

Okay, caregiving, got it. So, I've considered myself, I'm a part-time stay-at-home mom, part-time work on my business. So, I have different days where I'm always working, right? That's the only thing that I'm really adamant about. And I appreciate it before when you said, some of the women work inside of the home, some of them work outside of the home.

Because I think it's really important to acknowledge that it's all work, right? We're "working moms." It's just the what that work is different. But before I started my business, I was just thinking, if I was going to start treating being a stay-at-home mom, like it was my dream job, how would that look? Would I get dressed in the morning? Or would I wear whatever I slept in, right? Would I have a plan? Would I start the day with a plan and know tentatively?

When I had a couple of little kids and I still battle on the days that I am the sole caregiver. I still battled loneliness really, really hard. Because I'm a huge people person. I love being around people. I love talking to people. And sometimes, it's just hard to make plans with other people that are around because there's so many schedules and naps and blah, blah, blah. It can be really tricky.

So, one thing I do is I listen to podcasts. And especially when my kids were little little, I was just literally listening to podcasts all day long. And I really gravitated towards a lot of business podcasts, even though I didn't have a business at the time. And I wasn't even planning on starting a business. I just really, really appreciated them.

And after I listened to so many these podcast episodes, it was like, oh, I'm like a CEO too as a stay-at-home mom. And I was realizing all these like, okay, when you're starting a company, you don't exactly know what you're doing all the time, right? You're not getting paid a lot of the time. You struggle with work life boundaries, which hello, every meme on Instagram. That's like being a mom is 24/7, right?

Because it's true. Being a mom is 24/7 because it's a relationship and relationships are 24/7. Being a caregiver does not need to be 24/7. Nor do I think it's healthy for you to expect to be a caregiver 24/7 for your kids. Work life boundaries, even as a stay-at-home mom is so important. And so, yeah, figuring out, I'm like that can be something as simple as like, I'm going to eat my lunch without helping anybody get anything for 10 minutes, right?

I will give my kids their food. Then I will sit down to eat my lunch. If they're still hungry, I say great. I'm going to eat my lunch. When I'm done, I can help you, right? It can be something that simple or it can be on certain nights of the week where when your husband gets home, you're like, "Hey, I'm taking out. I'm going out for the evening," and whatever it is. But just understanding that just because you are the primary caregiver during the day does not mean that you are by default always and forever the primary caregiver.

CAMILLE [30:02]

Yeah. I think that that can be really easy to slip into as well. So, I think if you're listening to this right now and you're like, when was the last night that I had a night to myself to go for a walk or go shopping or go get a pedicure or whatever the thing is? Make it a priority to sit down with your partner and say, "I think I need to create some boundaries for myself, so I can get a little more me time."

And your loving partner, if approached in the right way, they all want that. They want you to feel fulfilled and you have moments of rest and that you can have time to yourself. And I think little kids, it's important for them to know too.

I think it's interesting. I'll share an example of one that I do with my kids, which is silly. But now that they're a little bit older, my youngest is seven and my oldest is 15. I'm at a stage now where they now want to keep you up later because that's when they want to talk to you, you guys. They don't let you sleep because they want to hang out with you, which is awesome. I love hanging out with my kids. I watched Clue with my older two last night. It was so much fun.

But it can get to a point where you have to kick them out of your room because you need alone time. And you and your partner need alone time. And that's now a new boundary that I am helping to establish.

So, with my little kids, I've said to them before, I say, "Mom goes to bed at nine o'clock and it's Camille's time." And so, I've even had my seven-year-old say to me, "Mom, I mean, Camille, could you help me with this, this, this, and this?" And it's funny because they know I say it's really important for me to take care of her too, that part of me. And really communicating with your kids and sharing it out of love that you've given them all you can give them for the day. And then, after you put them to bed, it really is a time to transition and to be put to bed.

So, one of the boundaries I put in place with my little kids is that I'll tell them, "If you want a proper tuck in, where we go through the whole thing of reading a book or I snuggle with you or my boys love to wrestle and be tickled or I help you with brushing your teeth or whatever the tradition tuck in is that you do, we need to start by eight o'clock. Because if you come to me at nine or ten, I'm done. I've clocked out. It's now, you get to tuck me in."

And so, there are even times that my younger kids, my seven- or my nine-year-old, I'll say, "Yay, you get to tuck me in tonight." And they will. They'll put my blankets on. And they'll even do some of the funny things we do together and they'll turn off the light. And I think that it shows them that I have a stopping point or even some days that I'm like, "I am really feeling grumpy tonight. I don't have to give what you want from me. I say I have three or five minutes, take it or leave it."

And it's really interesting because I think kids will show up if you talk to them that way. And, of course, this is within reason like a three-year-old, a four-year-old, they're not going to get it. As they get a little bit older and see those boundaries and that it's important for you to take care of yourself too, I think that it translates to them, that their relationship with themselves is important too. And they can set those boundaries and that that's a healthy relationship to communicate those needs.

HANNAH [33:31]

Yeah. I'll do a similar thing where I'll literally tell my kids like, "I always love being your mom. But sometimes, I need to have a break from being your caregiver. So, someone else is in charge." And I'll use those words with them to help them see there's a difference.

I always am going to be your mom. I always love that. I'm always going to be here as your mom. Sometimes, my job as your caregiver, I need a break from. And it doesn't mean I don't love you. It just means that people need breaks from their job.

CAMILLE [33:57]

I love that.

HANNAH [33:58]

They're little. So, I don't know if they get it. But I hope that as I continue using it as they get older that they'll eventually grasp the concept.

CAMILLE [34:06]

I think they will. I think that's something where the kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for sometimes and communicating with them, even when you're working on your business or maybe you're not feeling well or maybe you're feeling short-tempered.

If you can create that space and time to communicate that with them and do your best to use language that they would understand, I think that strengthens the relationship so much because they see you as human. They allow for you to mess up and kids are so forgiving.

And I think that even language I use with my teenager, even to this day, I'll say, "I'm trying to figure this out right now. And this is my first time being a parent of a 15-year-old. This is your first time being 15. Let's figure this out together. I'm not perfect."

And to just say that and to realize that every kid is different, every stage of your motherhood is different. And so, none of your kids are going to be raised by the same mother, nor will they experience the same things. So, I think that having that open communication between caregiving and mothering, I really liked that.

This has been so fantastic. You have an amazing offering coming up this fall that I would love our audience to hear about. Please tell us where we can find more content from you and more about this program that you have coming up.

HANNAH [35:36]

Okay. So, my Instagram, like you mentioned at the beginning, is called @freckledhan. My name is Hannah. So, it's like my nickname is Han. People always mishear it. They think it's like ham or something like a pig. Anyway, @freckledhan. And then, I have a podcast as well that I'm just getting up and running again. it's called Rantish.

But the offer, the program that I am starting in the fall, is my redefining motherhood program. And it's a six-week live program where you can come listen to the content that I teach live every week. You can ask your questions. It's recorded. So, you can get access to it later if you want. You can ask me questions at the next session, whatever you need.

And really what we do is we break down this concept of separating the relationship of motherhood from the job of caregiving. So, the first week is specifically about the relationship. The second week is about the job and just really helping you guys be clear so that when we go to the third week, which is about your thoughts about motherhood and we start making some of those shifts around motherhood is lonely turns into caregiving is lonely, you can be so clear on the difference of all those things. We also touch on becoming the CEO of your home. We talk about creating a connected relationship, avoiding burnout. These are all parts of this six-week program. And it is so much fun.

And the feedback that I've gotten from people who have completed the program in the past has just been phenomenal. Literally, actually one of my last cohorts went through and it overlapped over Mother's Day. And one of the participants messaged me. And she was like, "Being in your program right now, I'm just cringing at all the ways people are misusing motherhood in their talks," because that is a notorious time where people get really confused between the tasks in the relationship.

And the whole point of separating them out is to give you the foundation to strengthen the relationship because it's so easy to let the tasks become more important than the relationship. And that is what we want to avoid because the whole purpose of the tasks is to support the relationship. And so, if those are out of alignment, then the relationship is what suffers.

And I want every woman to love motherhood because she understands what it is and to love that relationship for what it is because it is such a beautiful, wonderful thing. And I think it gets so confused and misunderstood in our society, like you were saying, with the negativity on social media and stuff. And so, I feel so strongly about helping women really separate the two to feel empowered and just confident in the way that they show up in that relationship with their kids.

CAMILLE [38:18]

I love that. I can tell you that I've learned a lot from following along on your account. I am so grateful to be a mother. It is my favorite job. And what I think is interesting is that it can be your favorite. And it doesn't have to be everything about what you do either.

And so, I think there's a lot of beauty in understanding that and really embracing who you are as a total person. And so, that's why this is so helpful is it helps people really define what it is that they love about motherhood, strengthening those relationships and creating language and understanding around needing a break and not letting that reflect on how you feel as the performance as a mother. So, thank you so much for being on the show, Hannah. It has been so wonderful to have you.

HANNAH [39:02]

Thank you so much for having me.

CAMILLE [39:03]

Hey, CEOs. Thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment in a 5-star review. You could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram @callmeceopodcast. And remember, you are the boss.

[39:25]