“Call Me CEO” is your master-class on innovation, creativity, leadership, and finding YOUR perfect balance between motherhood and entrepreneurship.

Mary Clavieres is a very accomplished wife, mother, and business owner. Last episode, we heard her story about creating Brief Transitions, the dreamy mesh underwear for postpartum women. This week, join us as she shares her story of becoming a mind consultant and helping people understand the way their mind works and how they process and achieve things! Mind mapping has really made her the most productive in her work, and it can help you too!



The mind mapping we learn from Mary is about thinking preferences and how you can scale your business using the Herrmann Brain Dominance Instrument. By following this process you can understand how your own mind works and what areas you need to exercise or work on. Understanding your own mind will help you know how to better perform and get more out of your day.



  • The specific process of mind mapping
  • Mind consulting for entrepreneurship
  • Creating time blocks and space to live a balanced life
  • Figuring out and understanding your purpose
  • Becoming certified in mind consulting

resources and links mentioned during this episode:



Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. I am your host, Camille Walker. And today, we are doing Part 2 of my interview with Mary Clavieres. If you missed Part 1, please go back and listen because she shares with us all about how she launched her product, Brief Transitions, which is a mesh underwear specifically made for women after delivering a baby. I don't know why this hasn't been to market before but she made that miracle possible.

Today, we're actually covering mind mapping and understanding how our brains work, so that we can create the best business possible. This is something that you're going to want to take notes with so I suggest grabbing a pen because there are so many awesome gems of wisdom here. I learned so much. So, let's get started.


CAMILLE [0:54]

So, you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? Well, listen each week as we dive into stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.


CAMILLE [1:12]

Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. And if you listened to last week's episode, you will know that I am with Mary Clavieres. And today, we are actually talking about thinking preferences and how you can scale your business using the Herrmann Brain Dominance Instrument. And if you have no idea what that is, don't worry. I didn't either. And Mary's going to take us all the way through it.

We're going to have really detailed fun conversations about how understanding how you think can actually help you understand how to better perform and get more out of your day. So, thank you so much, Mary, for being here. I'm so excited to dive into this episode with you.


Thanks so much, Camille. It's really nice to be here.

CAMILLE [1:51]

Well, I'm already feeling like we're besties. I feel like we can dig into this one a little deeper. Now that we've gotten a background with Mary, she actually left the corporate world, started her own product called Brief Transitions, which makes it possible for you to get that wonderful mesh underwear at Amazon and on your own time because that is something I can't believe wasn't even on the market. And now, you can have as much of it as you want to.

But today, specifically, we're going to be talking about how the brain works. So, Mary talk to us a little bit about you. Firstly, for those who haven't heard the introduction from the last episode, and then we'll start talking about this brain work.

MARY [2:32]

Great. Yeah. So, I�m based in New Jersey. I am a mom of two and I live right across the Hudson River from Manhattan with my husband and my two girls. They are seven and four and a half. And, yeah, I'm a business owner. I own Brief Transitions, post-partum mesh underwear, as you mentioned. And I also have programming to support mom business owners and entrepreneurs around community and group programs and coaching that all relate to how you can really scale in a way that makes sense for you and that's possible for you versus trying to follow what everyone else out there is doing. But really, do something based on the way you think and how you operate, so that it can really be the best you.

CAMILLE [3:23]

I love that approach to it because we all do operate and think differently. Before talking to you, I would never have thought of framing my career and my progression towards working with what I have on the scale of the way that I think. I've just never heard of that concept.

So, let's talk about that little bit. How you got introduced to this programming and also, how you transitioned from developing your own product and then thinking, "I want to help women and entrepreneurs do this for themselves."

MARY [3:54]

Yeah. So, I started some of this work when I was still in corporate. So, I have a corporate background, which I know we talked about before in pharmaceutical manufacturing. So, I spent about 15 years in the corporate world before going out on my own and in my last position before I left, we, as a leadership team, had done this Herrmann Brain Dominance Instrument.

We had an outside speaker come in and take our own individual profiles, and then work with us as a team on what thinking preferences we had within our group, and if everyone was really a fit for what they were doing, and how this could help us be a better team and more cohesive and perform better as a group. So, I really learned about it from there.

And then, when I left corporate, I mean, for me it had such a big impact, it was so eye-opening like, "Wow, yes. That is how I process information." And it also shares how your thinking preferences under stress, which was a real eye-opener for me. So, again, I was like, "Wow, yes. That's where I go and how I think under stress." And it all kind of came together for me as something that was really impactful for how I operate my business and even just how I live on a daily basis, right? In my life and how I react to things at home with my kids and even with my husband, it all ties together.

So, it's a really great way to kind of have some self-awareness and get some self-development. Also, there's practical application and tools, so it's not just like this is your personality type of thing. It's not a personality test. So, it's really about how you prefer to think and what you can do with that information in very practical ways, which is really my style.

CAMILLE [5:51]

Yes. I just really want to dig into this a little bit more. How many different types are there? Is it like a set of four? How is it categorized and how do you really understand what it is that you are and how to move forward with that?

MARY [6:05]

Yeah. So, there's four quadrants to the brain the way they have it set up. The analytical quadrant, the creative quadrant, the emotional or relationship quadrant, and the implementation quadrant. So, there's these four different parts of the brain and what is done with something like this Herrmann Brain Dominance Instrument is, it's called whole brain thinking. So, even though, you might have a thinking preference. You can be a combination. You can have from one to three. Most people do not have all four as their top preference. One to three preferences and then, it's about how do you use those, right?

So, for example, if you're really analytical and you really practice and really a doer, very tactical. You could have thinking preferences in both of those quadrants and really process information in that way. But then, if you look at it from a business perspective, you're leaving out the creative aspect and the emotional or relational aspect of your business, right? So, a lot of things that are more associated with say, right brain thinking. So, when you use all four of them and you put processes in place or use this as a tool, using all four of them is really about whole brain thinking. So, you're not leaving anything out.

You're really following and using your whole brain, or you have other people in your team, right? That have these other thinking preferences from you, so that you can still have a whole brain. Because I mean, if you try to operate a business and you don't have the analytical quadrant like that's where everything is with the data and with the financials and running a business. You can't really run a business without that, right? But if it's not your preference, what things can you put in place to be able to have that still standing in your business? Because you want to be successful for the long-term.

CAMILLE [8:05]

Yes. I know this wholeheartedly. Analytics for me is not my favorite. Spreadsheets, I mean, I think they operate beautifully, but it's just not my go-to. And thank goodness, I married someone with that brain type because he runs my finances and he loves spreadsheets. And if I ask him about creative things, it's funny because he'll just get really overwhelmed and say, "Oh I just don�t have the mental capacity to even process what you're saying." But if there's a spreadsheet or something where he says, "Oh, just take all that data. Plug it in and you can do this equation and it will give you that output for the profit loss or gain of each whatever, transaction." And I'm like, "I can't do that."

So, it's funny because even just listening to that description, I very, very easily can pick up on things that I know my husband and I, and thank goodness, again, I feel like those complimentary angles, opposite attract things, that he will do the financial part of my business. And thank goodness, because I know that that is not my strong suit.

MARY [9:08]

Right. And it's like that for a lot of people. And if they don't have a spouse or a business partner or someone else to do that with them and they're really growing their business from the ground up and don't have other support, it's really important to know all of that, and to be aware of it, and put some things in place. I'm not saying that you're not going to become someone that loves that quadrant that you're not, but put some things in place to help you get by and help you operate until the time comes where maybe you can hire someone else.

CAMILLE [9:40]

Yes. And I feel like a lot of times with entrepreneurs, they are good at vision, like being more visionary and having the big picture and all of the nitty gritty details, the minutia of it all, can be really overwhelming. And so, if and when you have the capability to hire that out and to establish a routine where it's systems that are set up for you so you don't have to get lost in that, that's where you can really find success. I know that when I took that transitional piece from my own business of having to do it all to opening it up to other people who do it a lot better than me, that is when I saw real success and growth.

MARY [10:15]

Yup. Yeah. And it's really about how can you get by until that point comes?

CAMILLE [10:24]


MARY [10:24]

But you bring up a great point about the ideas, a lot of entrepreneurs have a lot of ideas, right? The execution and the implementation might not be so great. Or it's not like you're getting things done, you could have execution in you, but you're not seeing the end results that you want because you probably don't have the right kind of strategy around it.

So, also building whole brain strategies is part of it where you make a plan and make a strategy that uses all four quadrants. So, that you're not just firefighting, you're not going from one idea and then try to execute on a different idea. And you're wondering, "Why am I spinning my wheels?" That's what I see for a lot of people. It's like you have the idea, and you can do some of the stuff, but you're doing the wrong things for the wrong idea. It's not all lined up, right? And that's kind of where some of this comes into.

CAMILLE [11:21]

That's fascinating. I think one of the most interesting partnerships that I've seen that really displays playing into your strengths is with Walt Disney and his brother. And we never hear much about the brother. It's only because of my close relationship having worked with Disney that I heard a lot about the beginnings and how that business was made.

And Walt would have been done for had it just been him alone. He needed someone who really understood that other side of things to make it a success while in the same breath saying, "Walt Disney is Disney." You wouldn't have the vision of that without him. And so, let's talk about getting into those quadrants and really understanding where it is that you lie and how to really find out more about that.

MARY [12:06]

Yeah. So, if you picture a circle, right? And you cut it up, a line in the middle vertically and horizontally. The top left quadrant is the blue quadrant and it's the analytical quadrant. So, that's where everything lives. Like we said before, it's related to data. It's related to business operations, like the financial piece of it. It's also considered the what of your business. So, like what programs do you offer and how does it run?

Then, if you go to the top right, that is the yellow quadrant. It's the why quadrant. And that's where you get into the creative space. Think long-term vision, mission, purpose, all of that type of stuff, the creative ideas, the future state of where you want to go with your business, all of that sits in there, which is a dreamy kind of place. So, a lot of entrepreneurs are familiar with that in terms of having lots of ideas.

Then, the bottom right quadrant, is the who quadrant. That's where the emotional and relational side lives, so really about relationships with other people, how you connect with feeling and with, for example, business, collaborations, like who are you collaborating with, working with? The customer service part of connecting with your customer. All of that goes in there.

And then, the bottom left quadrant is the green quadrant. That's the how quadrant. And that's around implementation and processes and how you are executing on your ideas.

CAMILLE [13:49]

Okay. So, basically, it's breaking down all those elements of the business and once you can identify those, then you can really fix those holes that are missing for you.

MARY [13:59]

Yeah. The way I usually approach it with my clients is we go through what, why, who and then how. So, in that order, because a lot of people, they get an idea, and then they go execute. But really, they don't know what it's related to, who is helping them. They kind of skip around. Or people that are strong in the what and why, they'll look at some data. They'll have an idea and then they'll say, "Okay. Let me look at more data. Now, I have a new idea." And they'll kind of circle and loop and like data, idea, data, idea, without actually executing, right? I mean, you could probably think of people in your life like that. Maybe they have great ideas but they never actually follow through and implement on them, right? They're missing a lot of that green, a lot of that how quadrant.

So, depending where you are, I take everyone through all four quadrants and that's what comes up with whole brain thinking because without that, you are trying to get to a destination without having a roadmap, if you will. You're driving around aimlessly.

CAMILLE [15:06]

Yeah, which I think is so easy for us to get stuck in because although a lot of times, I mean, especially as a mom, there are so many things pulling at you and demands. And so, you might have these ideas but really figuring out how can be daunting because everyone else is going to dominate your time unless you have a specific plan of how to squeeze it in, right? Because as moms, when we're building businesses, we really have to have our sacred time blocks of space where we have a direction, otherwise it's just spinning around in our heads.

MARY [15:39]

Yeah. Or you're just chasing or checking things off a to-do list without knowing what's the end game. How is that actually helping me? Why is that connecting to? What purpose is that connecting to?

CAMILLE [15:51]

That's really interesting.


CAMILLE [15:55]

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CAMILLE [16:42]

So, this training that you did, how long did it take to get certified?

MARY [16:47]

The certification, I think it's changed now during the pandemic because it's online. But the in-person version, it was about a week. Yeah, about a week. And yeah, I took my training in Atlanta, Georgia. They have them throughout the year in different locations. But like I said, now, there's a lot that's online and then there's work and homework in between the sessions.

CAMILLE [17:12]

Okay. So, if you were to be my coach and help, because you do coach people and help them understand where their strengths lie. How would you go about walking someone through that process?

MARY [17:23]

Yeah. So, first, they take the assessment, so it's about a 15-to-20-minute assessment online. And then, I go through their results with them for how they work and how they prefer to think under steady state and I also take them through how things change from an emotional standpoint like when they're under stress.

And then, it really depends on the person. It's really customized to, "Okay. What are their thinking preferences? Are they seeing certain challenges and struggles that show up in the way that their thinking preferences are, right?"

So, if they're not seeing traction, if they're not able to take action, and they're really missing that how quadrant. Like that lines up, right? So, it depends on the person, but we look at where they are. And then, how we can make a whole brain plan for them so they can really see the success they want in their business, whatever it might look like for them.

CAMILLE [18:25]

I mean, is that a vehicle for you to be able to open up the coaching and the membership group that you have and how does that work in with this assessment?

MARY [18:35]

Yeah. So, it depends. So, I use the assessment as a tool for all things, really. For one-on-one work, it's obviously very powerful because everyone gets individualized instruction for where they are and where they want go. That's how they can see perhaps like the fastest results and the ones that are most unique to them.

It's also built into my group program. So, I do a group program for mom business owners. It's a 12-week group experience and one of the first things we do in there is people also take the assessment and I teach them about the assessment. And then, we apply that in both life and in their business. And then, the membership community is a place where everyone can kind of convene and get together and network and I have different programming in there. Sometimes, I cover some things related to whole brain thinking or I have other experts come in on other topics as well.

CAMILLE [19:32]

And what program do you use for that membership site? What facility do you use for that?

MARY [19:37]

Oh, it's online. So, you mean in terms of like technically?

CAMILLE [19:42]

Yeah. Technically.

MARY [19:43]

Like web-wise? I use WordPress for the website for the membership community for all the recordings and all the tools and resources, PDFs and templates and things like that. And then, we have a Facebook Group for the connecting piece of it.

CAMILLE [19:59]

Okay. So, let's walk through a problem. I�m curious. And I'm putting you on the spot, so I don't know if this might be a little difficult to do.

MARY [20:08]

It's okay.

CAMILLE [20:09]

But let's imagine a problem that someone has and how that person might solve that problem depending on the dominance of their thinking.

MARY [20:19]

Okay. I can give you an example. So, I had a client once that was really struggling with process. It kind of goes to what we were talking about before. She was really struggling with process and really feeling disorganized and kind of like a hamster on a wheel, I would say, like a little bit of, "Okay, what am I doing?" But always kind of not feeling like she really had it all together, right? And she didn't have any help. It was just her.

So, in her thinking preferences, it showed that she's very strong in the vision, mission, purpose. The why quadrant, the yellow. And not so strong in the how. It was a 3rd level preference for her. So, no preference for it at all. And I should also say, the why and the how quadrants are diagonally across from each other, so they can also be in conflict with each other.

And same goes with the data and the emotion. So, if you think of a CEO and their admin, right? The CEO might have all of these ideas and the admin's like, "Okay. But how do we actually execute on those things?" Because they're thinking tactically from the how quadrant.

So, since she was so high in the vision and she had all of these ideas of what she wanted to do next and try in her business. But she didn't have the execution piece ironed out so well. We had to spend time working on her planning. I'm like, "How can we put a plan together that links back?" Because it's really important. You want to pick the ideas that you want to work with and link back to them, so that you're not just picking. People do this all the time, like chasing squirrels, right? You get so excited like, "Oh, this is a new idea" or "This is a new opportunity."

That's great. Does it fit into what your strategies are? It's okay if you have to revise your strategies as long as you're not doing that every day. But how can you get it all worked together? So, we worked with her. We worked on putting plans together and putting implementation plans together for which ideas she wanted to prioritize and really work on first, for what was going to move the needle in her business. Then, eventually, this was a really exciting part, she eventually grew to a place where then she wanted to hire someone. And so, her hire was someone to help her with the tactical piece, to help her with the administrative stuff.

I share that one because it's a pretty common one for entrepreneurs and a pretty common one for moms. And sometimes, we're great at all that practical stuff. I'm great at that stuff like the planning, whatever, although for myself, it's harder, right? It's always harder for yourself. But there comes a point where you need the help, where it's not worth your time to be doing that if that's not where your money-making activities are. And she grew to a place where then she was able to bring on support.

And, of course, there's a whole other thing that goes into that. What kind of support are you bringing on? What types of responsibilities do you want them to have? How are they helping and supporting your business? And it looks different for different people.

My first hire actually for Brief Transitions was to get a book keeping service because there are so many just different tasks really, all different costs and everything related to whatever, buying product and inventory, just all of these kinds of things, packaging materials. And it was getting to be too much for me to track in a spreadsheet. So, I had to go to that blue quadrant, that what quadrant and say, "Okay. I need support with the actual financial piece of my business." And I�m not saying I'm disappearing from the financials, but I could look at it and not spending hours on a spreadsheet myself first.

CAMILLE [24:19]

Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense and it's really relatable. What would you give advice to the entrepreneurs and the moms who are listening who might be stuck in that next step of bringing on the help? What advice would you give women on that spot? Because I feel like that's a very common place to be, knowing the when and the how and the what of just that, bringing new people on, the trust level that needs to be in play.

MARY [24:43]

Yeah. It can be very scary. I agree. A lot of people, they get so hesitant that they usually end up hiring too late like when you're first thinking that you need to hire, you probably should have hired like a few months ago. It's usually how it works out. But okay, you can't beat yourself up about that.

I think the most important thing. There's a few things. One is being clear on what you want the person to do, the type of role and the actual activity. So, if you think, "I need help, but I don't know where", just start making a list of all the different things you do in your business.

Then, after a couple of weeks, between two and four weeks probably is best, so you can kind of get a landscape. Some things you only do for your business once a month. That's why usually it's four weeks is better. At the end of the four weeks, for example, you can look at the list and say, "Okay. Which are the things that I really don�t like the most?" Or "Which are the things that take up the most amount of my time where it's not where I want to be at the core of the business?"

And look at those, and then figure out what type of role would support that. And it usually lines up very well with whatever your thinking preferences are. So, obviously, when I work with people, we're looking at their profile and we're looking at what they discover from that activity. But it can be very scary. So, the other part that I usually tell people is to do a trial. I think a lot of people are just like, "Okay. I'm ready to hire. I'm going to jump right in."

But doing a trial over a two or four week period, depending on the role and if the person's open to it or whatever, or signing up for one month first or, making up an example, giving one or two or three tasks to see how they handle them to see how they communicate. All of those are really helpful things to do because you can learn a lot from interacting with those few things and it saves you a lot of time in the long run if you learn some of that upfront. Because you'll know right away sometimes, like this person is not a fit and before you spend all the time fully onboarding, integrating them into everything, and then seeing that it's not the right person.

CAMILLE [27:00]

That is really good advice. I think that you can know a lot just from a couple of brief to-dos, tasks, whether or not they do the work quality that you're looking for and/or if they communicate well with you. So, that is excellent advice.

MARY [27:16]

Yeah. I always recommend that because it might seem like a lot, but in the short-term a lot of people don't necessarily like to do that because they're like, "Oh, I have to set this up. And it's not for real. I don't know for sure that I'm committing to them." But that's kind of the point, you do that so that you know when you're committing to them, it's going to work or not, or it'll be better at least.

CAMILLE [27:38]

Yeah. No, that's fascinating.


Camille [27:43]

Today's review comes from AllergyAwesomeness. As a small site owner, and as a fan of Camille and Jen�s for a long time, I really enjoyed this podcast. I love hearing how successful people became successful. It�s easy to think it all came easily to them, but it�s encouraging to hear the back stories and hear what were their pain points too. Excited to hear more!

Thank you so much for this review. It truly is my favorite part of sharing these stories is the ups and the downs and what we can learn from the together. If you want more from the Call Me CEO community, please join us at Call Me CEO Community on Facebook and on Instagram @callmeceopodcast. I would love to connect with you there.


CAMILLE [28:26]

So, tell me about through the lens of seeing yourself and the way that you're able to think and process better, have you found that once people get a hold on understanding that better that they're able to operate better in their lives and moving forward? Is that something that you keep on getting a refresher on or once you understand it, you have the tools you need.

MARY [28:48]

Understanding, it is definitely the first part. And I think there's a lot that you can learn just in the beginning in terms of tools and different techniques to help you. But there is so much that you can grow and learn over time, like specifically with the Herrmann Brain Dominance Instrument, there's a lot of different whole brain applications, so you can apply it to business strategies. You could also apply it to communicating and the way you communicate with people, recognizing there's clues. Recognizing how they communicate, and then meeting where they are.

So, I mean, there's whole brain innovation, whole brain teams, like running teams, and everything. But the thing that I would say it was very powerful for me was understanding how my thinking preferences change under stress. So, I become very emotional. I go to the emotional quadrant under stress. I go fully into the red quadrant, so the relational quadrant. So, it usually shows up that I'm putting stress on myself, right? And or whatever, even if a situation triggers it, and then, I'm like reacting to that somehow.

And what I've learned and practiced over the years is, how can I stop reacting in that moment and give myself time and space? And then, bring myself back to center. So, for example, when you get frustrated with your kids. This is what a lot of people talk about. If I get frustrated with my kids, and then I start yelling. What can I do? So, there's like acronyms in that situation, you can tell yourself STOP. So, STOP stands for stop, take a breath, observe what's going on, and then proceed. And it can bring you back.

I mean, I probably hear this a lot from different people, either coaches or doctors or wellness experts, taking those breaths to center yourself, is a really powerful tool. It seems like something very simple and like, "Oh. That won't work" or "I don't need to do that." But it actually really works. Yeah.

CAMILLE [31:07]

I would believe it because I know I've seen other people that talk a lot about being present in the moment, and even I have a child who is a more high anxiety child and a therapist suggested to me that I have him rub his fingers together, or even just rub his fingers along his face to bring back that sense of presence, to really recenter yourself and connect with that present moment and to not be in that frantic state.

MARY [31:40]

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's a great one.

CAMILLE [31:42]

Yeah. I like that to STOP. So, it's stop, take a breath, what else?

MARY [31:47]


CAMILLE [31:49]

Observe. And what was the P?

MARY [31:52]


CAMILLE [31:52]

Proceed. Okay, got it. Yeah. That's really interesting. I think a lot of us do go to that emotional state when we are upset or angry. And that's so, so easy to do. And to take a breath and really assess what is happening in the moment is so essential, especially as a parent.

MARY [32:12]


CAMILLE [32:13]

It's hard.

MARY [32:14]

Yeah. Because if you're going to change, if you really want to make a change, you have to do something different, right? You can't continue. It's like a definition of insanity or something. It's doing the same thing and expecting different results.

CAMILLE [32:29]


MARY [32:30]

So, if you always get frustrated and angry and you always act out, and then afterwards, you're always sorry and you feel bad and there's shame and guilt and all those things, like how can you break that cycle? You have to try something different.

CAMILLE [32:43]

Something that I really like that you just reminded me of was Brene Brown and she talks about the difference between shame and guilt. And I have a child, the same one I was talking about, who when he does something wrong, he can really spiral into feeling like he's a bad kid.

And I was listening to one of her books. It was Dare to Lead, but she talks about this in a few. And she talks about knowing the difference between shame and guilt and shame is believing that your actions make you a bad person, where guilt is recognizing that what you did was bad and that you're not bad, it's the action. And then, you can say sorry and improve from that.

And so, explaining that to him and even saying in my own situation, when I yell and when I make mistakes, I mess up too. Everyone messes up. It doesn't mean that I am a bad person. It means the choice I made was bad, but we can learn to apologize and to be better. That's the whole point of this life, right? And so, I think being human and really allowing your child to see that in that moment is empowering for them because then, they know that the same grace extends to them.

MARY [33:57]

Yep. It's very powerful. I've definitely practiced and learned to apologize to kids when I do something that I'm not happy after with how I acted and generationally, I think maybe it was not as common when I was young.

CAMILLE [34:11]

Oh, no. No. It's mom and dad are right, no matter what. Yeah.

MARY [34:14]

Right. Right. And now, I'm like, "I was wrong and I'm sorry." And I can literally see the expressions of their faces change when I do that. It makes a really big difference for them.

CAMILLE [34:29]

Yeah. I love that. Listening to the way you talk about how the brain systems work and that preference makes me want to learn more about it, not only for myself, but for my children because I think that we're all different. We're all wired different, so whether it's a working relationship or a familial relationship, understanding those things really does make a difference.

MARY [34:50]

Yeah. Definitely. So, there's individual, pair, and team reports, like you can use it with one person or two people or three, plus and it'll overlay the results how everyone thinks compared to the others. Super powerful.

But for my certification, one of my pair reports was with my husband, so that was super eye-opening because I could see like, "Oh, this is why there's so much tension when we fight." How he processes and handles when he's stressed compared to me is very different. It's very different, so since I learned that, I do find I have more patience and understanding and compassion just because I know he's coming from a different place than me. It's just easier when you can see it in a tangible way. That it really makes a difference.

CAMILLE [35:45]

That's so powerful. I feel like this is a training that everyone could benefit from.

MARY [35:50]


CAMILLE [35:50]

So, this coaching that you offer, tell our audience how that works. What is the step in doing that? How can you be a role in helping them understand?

MARY [36:01]

Yeah. So, really, the first thing. I mean, it truly applies both in life and business, so I talk to people and meet them wherever they are, right? So, if it's something that's going on in their home life that they really want a change with or if it's something that's going on with their business. Of course, they want to either scale or they want to start to see different results, maybe they want to make more money or they want to reach bigger goals. All of this helps them to get there. So, I usually talk to people one on one first and then, we kind of go from there, see if we're a fit. And then, they take the assessment and we have some sessions around it to really get them to where they want to be.

CAMILLE [36:42]

So, from start to finish, how long is the process generally?

MARY [36:46]

It depends on the person and it depends on what their goals are. I'd say anywhere from three to six months is usually how I work with people because that's where you see more of the transformation. I have one off strategy sessions too and those are 90-minute sessions, so you take the assessment. And then, you get a debrief. And then, we talk a little bit about your goals and where you want to go next. Most of the time, anyone that does a strategy session wants to continue because there's a lot that you can cover in 90 minutes. It's not enough for all.

CAMILLE [37:20]

Yeah. That's really just scratching the surface. I would think. Yeah.

MARY [37:24]


CAMILLE [37:27]

So, would you consider yourself in a way, I know you're not a therapist, but I think with understanding the way the brain functions, you really are opening the door to understanding people's own emotions and ways of thinking, which essentially that's what a therapist is, and I think that that is so powerful that you can offer that. So, on a whole, with your mom business coaching and everything, how does that integrate? Is that separate or does that integrate into this system at all?

MARY [37:53]

Yeah. I kind of work on them together, so you're right. I'm definitely not a therapist, but I love this lens of self-development and personal development in a way, and personal growth, and I integrate it. It's all about integrating it into what works best for people.

So, depending on if it's one on one coaching or if it's through a group program, whatever it might be for whoever comes to me. Yeah, I work with them wherever they are. So, obviously the higher touch and really where you see the larger individual transformations is from the one-on-one work because we can really pinpoint and look at specific things like, "Do you really need to overhaul your strategies?" Or "Do you need to overhaul your implementation plans?" And it's not about getting bogged down in a million things, but what are those top things that are really going to make the difference in the needle?

CAMILLE [38:55]

What do you think has been the most rewarding, I don't know how to frame the question, but the most rewarding aspect of doing this kind of work? Do you have examples of stories where you've been able to see help? I just think putting someone through this would be so moving for not only them, but for you. What has been the most rewarding thing?

MARY [39:18]

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot. It depends on the person. I just love to see their growth and where they were and how far they came. If it was someone that was running their own business and ended up hiring people to scale because they're making more money, and they can afford to have the help, and they need the help to support them with their systems and structure to grow, that's always super rewarding.

But just even like listening to people talk about how eye opening it is for them. Like I'll have people come back to me months, a year later, even some friends that I've did the assessment for, and they're like, "Oh, I saw this in my husband." And it had a lightbulb for them. Or they had a situation at work that they were just able to put into the context of this framework and it really helped them.

I mean, there's so many different ways that it's shown up, but really when I see the growth, the internal growth that they go through, but then, also the external accomplishments from that growth. It's really, really awesome to see.

CAMILLE [40:32]

Yeah. I would think it would build the people's confidence who are understanding it, and really, because a lot of times, I know from my own experience, if I'm unable to do something or I feel like I have short comings, you get down on yourself. Like, "Well, why can't I figure this thing out or why am I not awesome at coding?" Or whatever the thing is. But I think going through a training like this would really help you to see, we're not meant to have all the pieces. I think that's why we have each other, so that we can really draw from each other's strengths and create those collaborations and those relationships.

MARY [41:13]

Yeah. As entrepreneurs, we either feel like we have to do it all or we want to do it all, right? Because we want to control all the different parts and do all the different things, but at the end of the day it's really around diversity of thought, right? And different people think different ways and how can you use that to work together and bring something else to the table?

I mean, that's what drives innovation is by working with people that have things to offer that are different from what you offer. This is another thing. People usually want to hire someone that's most similar to them because that's where they feel comfortable, right? And they're like, "Oh. Well, I'm used to this. So, this is how I want to hire this person."

But really, you usually need to hire someone that's very different from you. One, so that you can leverage their skill sets and their strengths and their thinking preferences, even if it might come with a little more maybe discomfort because you're not exactly the same, but that's the point.

CAMILLE [42:23]

I love that advice. First of all, I love that you said diversity in thought. I'd never heard it put quite like that before, but there's so much strength in that. And I also love that you say that it can be uncomfortable. Because I think a lot of times, many times, maybe those who are more introverted or may not be able to express themselves as well with word are fantastic at writing in a way that maybe you're better at speaking. I know that's in my circumstance for example. Or someone who may not be able to communicate well with word is fantastic at creating code. Or whatever it is. There's just so many different intelligences and I think that that's what is so beautiful. I just love that so much.

MARY [43:08]

Yeah. Me too.

CAMILLE [43:10]

Very cool. Well, Mary, this has been so enlightening. I have loved it so much. We talked briefly about this call about taking questions and maybe doing a follow up to this episode. So, if that is something that you want to hear more about and you have specific questions for Mary and I to do another episode, please DM me at callmeceopodcast on Instagram and we could schedule a follow-up interview for that as well as if you want to connect with Mary individually, she could do an assessment for you. So, Mary, tell us where our audience can connect with you or learning more about this.

MARY [43:45]

Yeah. So, the best place is maryclavieres.com. There's an option for both companies like larger companies and also mom business owners through the transitions collective. But it's all right there on maryclavieres.com.

CAMILLE [44:02]

Perfect. So, if we have people who are listening and may have a team already set up, you can do an assessment for them as a group, as well as on an individual basis.

MARY [44:09]

Exactly. Yeah. For teams, the team assessment is really powerful and really eye-opening into how your team is running today and it will show where you might be having challenges and how you can run in a more efficient way in a whole brain way. Yeah.

CAMILLE [44:27]

Now, I have to ask because I'm putting together my team right now, and what would you suggest the best way for hiring? Do you suggest that someone maybe take some sort of assessment or test before you hire them and knowing the way that they operate or a strengths finder type quiz or assessment? What would you suggest for people who are hiring new people on their team?

MARY [44:54]

Yeah. So, you're typically not allowed to do some type of assessment like that and hire people because of that. When you onboard them, you can definitely have the assessment, so you understand a little bit more. The key is really knowing the roles that you're hiring for and having the job description really suited with words and phrases, and the actual activities that fit with that quadrant with that type of person you want to be hiring because then, the people with those thinking preferences will gravitate towards that job description.

CAMILLE [45:32]

Oh, okay. So, you're saying, be really specific about the job that you need to done and the task load like what exactly it is that you are looking for because then it will attract the right people, hopefully.

MARY [45:43]

Yeah. And the important thing too is usually, we would write a job description based on our experiences and what we're interested in. The key is, can you add to it, like really sit in the quadrant of what you want them to be doing?

So, for example, if you were high, let's say, in the creative, in the why and the who quadrants, but you are hiring a tactical implementation person. You don't want to write your job description from the why and the who quadrants, you want to write it from the how quadrant, so that the person applying will relate to it. So, it's really about using terms and vocabulary that fit more with that quadrant.

CAMILLE [46:34]

That is really good advice. I think that's probably the best advice I've heard about hiring ever. Because a lot of times, I think, like you say, we write from our own perspective and interests. And so, that may not be getting the right person that you need because it's not using the right verbiage or text that you need to attract what you actually need. So, yeah, that's really good advice.

MARY [47:00]

Yeah. I mean, that's why people end up hiring people that aren't really a fit and that could be one of the reasons why. And also, unclear on what they really want them to be doing. So, it's really important to spend time on what are the activities you actually need help with, like tracking those, and then sitting down and say, "Okay. This is the type of role that I need."

CAMILLE [47:21]

Yeah. Well, before we close up on this episode, why don't you tell our audience about your community for mom business owners that you have?

MARY [47:30]

Great. Yeah. So, I have a community for mom business owners. It's called The Transitions Collective and we do different programming within there, but it's really a place for moms that are building businesses from the ground up to really connect and work with each other. Because, I mean, what I found out when I was building Brief Transitions is it's lonely and it's a lot of work to build your own business.

So, really, have a network of the right type of support is really, really important. So, The Transitions Collective is the place where you can find all of that and I have a few different things within there. The membership community, the group experience, the programs which also helps moms, and of course, the one on one consulting as well.

CAMILLE [48:13]

Awesome. Well, you are amazing. Thank you so much for spending this time. If you missed Episode 1, you've got to go back and listen to that because we dig into more of Mary's personal story about building her business. But Mary, for this episode, please let us know where our audience can find you.

MARY [48:29]

So, I'm on Instagram @thetransitionscollective. Oh, and I have a scorecard, a business scorecard for your audience. So, if you go to, I'll give you the link as well, but thetransitionscollective.com/Camille, they'll be able to download an assessment. It's not the HBDI, but it's a tool where you can get a high level picture of where you are in your business right now and it gives you some prompts to kind of take your next steps and your next actions, the big picture.

CAMILLE [49:01]

That sounds amazing. Thank you for doing that. And again, remember, if you have some specific questions that you want us to do a follow-up, please DM me and join me @callmeceopodcast to get new episodes this week like this that are with incredible, successful, amazing women. And Mary, you are no exception to that rule. I have just love spending time with you today.

MARY [49:21]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I love the conversation.

CAMILLE [49:25]

You bet.


CAMILLE [49:27]

Thank you so much for tuning in today's episode of Call Me CEO. If you found it helpful or inspiring, I would love it if you shared it with a friend. And also, I would love it if you came and joined me on Instagram @callmeceopodcast where you can join other likeminded mommas like you who are looking to step up in their lives and make it even better. Thank you so much and I will see you next week!



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