Have you ever wondered what it takes to raise an entrepreneur child? In this episode, Camille welcomes Margot Machol Bisnow, the author of Raising an Entrepreneur: 10 Rules for Nurturing Risk Takers, Problem Solvers and Change Makers. She is also a mother of two entrepreneurs: Elliott Bisnow, the co-founder of Summit Group, and Austin Bisnow, the co-founder and lead singer of the band, MAGIC GIANT.
Margot shares her experience and findings on what makes an entrepreneur and the skills a parent needs to help encourage and allow their child to pursue their passions. She also shares some of the inspiring stories from her book about children with diverse backgrounds and the common themes found in their families.
If you’re interested in learning about how you can raise your child as an entrepreneur, tune into this episode to hear Margot’s advice on how you can help your children identify their passion and to raise them as creative, confident, and resilient children who are filled with joy and purpose.
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MARGOT MACHOL BISNOW [0:00]
Not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Not everyone wants to take on that much risk. Not everyone wants to work 80 hours a week within an uncertain payoff. And that’s okay. But I think the things you learn, the skills and the attitudes, will help you whatever you do, if you’re more entrepreneurial, more creative, more risk taking, more problem solving. So, I think it’s a good thing whether you become an entrepreneur or just you become more entrepreneurial.
CAMILLE WALKER [0:36]
So, you want to make an impact. You’re thinking about starting a business sharing your voice? How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? We’ll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.
Hey, everyone. If you’ve ever wondered what it takes to raise an entrepreneur, you have got to listen to this episode. My guest, Margot, has an MBA from Northwestern that she had achieved 20 years ago. She was in the government. She actually was from Washington DC, but as a mother of two and one of a son who started a Summit entrepreneurial business, she really wanted to dive into what makes an entrepreneur and what are the skills a parent needs to have to help encourage and allow a child to really spread their wings in that regard. So, today’s episode is all about what you as a parent can do to help raise an entrepreneur and also to give them joy and purpose helping them find their way. Let’s dive into the episode.
Welcome back everyone to another episode of Call Me CEO. I am your host, Camille Walker. I am so thrilled today because we are speaking with my new dear friend, Margot Machol Bisnow, who is the new author of Raising an Entrepreneur. And when I got an email on my inbox about this topic specifically, I was thrilled because I feel like this is something that so many universities are starting to actually teach kids how to be entrepreneurs.
Before now, in my mind, it’s been a very divided like you go to college and you go get a job or you don’t go to college and you start a business. And I don’t know if that’s just in my mind because that’s probably not the case. But rewinding to the very beginning, it really starts in the home. So, Margot, I’m so excited to have you here today. I know our listeners are going to love this. Thank you so much for being here.
It’s my favorite topic of conversation.
Yeah. So, we have a lot of things that we were relating to, that we have Utah ties with each other, but I want to go even further back. Give our audience a little bit history of what your background is and what led you to having interest in this topic.
My background has nothing to do with any of this. I got an MBA and moved to Washington DC and spent the next 20 years in and around government mostly in international economic policy. I set up economic think tanks in eastern Europe and I was at The Council of Economic Advisers, just all sorts of Washington things.
Then my oldest son, Elliott, started an organization called Summit in 2008, which is organizations of young entrepreneurs. And I’d go to all these events and I’d meet all these young entrepreneurs who had started really interesting companies or organizations and I’d never really met anyone like them. And I was just so curious how they turned out the way they did.
And I asked all of them. I said, “I’m just so curious. How did you end up being willing to work so hard to achieve this goal you have and to take on so much risk and single-mindedly just to battle forward on this thing? Where did this come from?” And they all said the same thing to me. They all said, “I had someone,” usually they said my mom, “who believed in me who told me I could do anything I put my mind to.”
And I was so struck by this and I just kept talking about it. And my kid said, “Okay, you have to write a book.” I’m like, “What? I can’t write a book.” And he said, “You have to write a book.” And I can’t write a book. Anyhow, it’s a long story, but I decided to interview 70 entrepreneurs and generally their moms, but sometimes also a different family member, to see how they were raised.
And my goal was to take as broad a group as possible. So, it’s half men, half women, every race, every religion, every socioeconomic background, from single moms who had barely gotten out of high school to parents who were doctors and lawyers and stuff. And there were families who lived in the US for generations. There were families with immigrant parents. There were people born overseas. There were people in small towns. There were people from big cities. There were single kids, three in a family, five in a family, seven in a family. Parents married, parents divorced, blended families. Just as different as possible, and then they went into very, very different careers.
So, to me, an entrepreneur is anyone who starts something. So, it’s for-profit companies. It’s non-profit companies. It’s artists and it’s activists. And to my amazement, despite these people coming from hugely different backgrounds, in all the basic core ways, these people were raised the same. And it just blew my mind. And I got so much more excited about it as I was getting into it than I was when I started because it’s just wow.
Yeah. First of all, I love that you did your homework and you made it such a wide sample of so many different people and upbringings and socioeconomical backgrounds. That’s a feat in and of itself. Did that primarily come from the Summit group that your son had started? Was that how you were able to aggregate them all?
That’s probably 2/3 of them maybe. Then I come from Washington DC, so some of them were people I knew. And then, some of them was me just reaching out. I’m just looking for some more activists because it’s not a world I’m familiar with and I just wanted people who’d really gone into very different kinds of professions. So, I would reach out and ask people I knew to introduce me to other people.
That’s amazing. Let’s dig into the meat of this. Let’s talk about it because I would love to hear what are those key factors that these entrepreneurial kids are being taught in the home?
No, I would love to share these with you. And you said sometimes, you think people make a decision before college about what they’re going to do, but I think the traits that mean you’re going to end up becoming entrepreneurial are instilled way, way, way before.
And I don’t think you can make your kid an entrepreneur, just like you can’t make your kid an orchestra conductor or a doctor. You can simply encourage certain kinds of behavior and attitudes so that they end up going that way. I think you can definitely kill it, but you can’t make them an entrepreneur.
Of all these 70 people, there were only 5 examples where there were two in a family who became entrepreneurs. And in all 5 of those cases, they have a third sibling who did not. So, I think that the parents can definitely lay the groundwork, and then it’s up to the kids.
And can I just say not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Not everyone wants to take on that much risk. Not everyone wants to work 80 hours a week within an uncertain payoff. And that’s okay. But I think the things you learn, the skills and the attitudes, will help you whatever you do, if you’re more entrepreneurial, more creative, more risk taking, more problem solving. So, I think it’s a good thing whether you become an entrepreneur or just you become more entrepreneurial.
Yes. That makes a lot of sense because as a mother of four, I look at each one of my kids who are all raised by the same set of parents and their personalities and what drives them and what they want to do and be and they’re still quite young, they’re just so different, what motivates them.
And what I see their risk-taking factor too. You can see that pretty early on as a mom. I remember when my oldest was, I don’t know at the playground, let’s say age 4 or 5 and my oldest is extremely cautious by nature. He follows the rules. He wants to go on the stairs. He will make sure he’s walking in line or whatever that looks like. He’s afraid of getting hurt. Where my youngest, by the age 3, 4, 5, he always had a goose egg on his head. He was always falling over. He was always jumping and running and just has more of that risk of risk taking.
So, I completely agree with that. And it’s really fascinating as a parent to watch your children develop at the different stages that they’re in. So, what would you say are some characteristics that we can help encourage and harness and empower our children with?
So, can I just say you’re obviously a great mom because you understand and respect and appreciate and encourage that your kids are all different. And I believe this passionately and even more so after doing this research, I think every child comes out with a gift. Every child is born who they are. And all we can do, our job as parents, especially as moms, our job is to help them figure out what that is, and then nurture it and support it. And that’s the best thing we can do for our children.
And so, the answer to your question and the most important thing that every single person in this book is they all ended up having a passion outside of school. And in every single case, their parents supported it and their parents believed in them. And their parents said, “We know you can do it. We’re here for you. We know it’s not going to be smooth. We’re here when there’s bumps in the road, but we know if you work hard and you put your mind to it, you can get to be successful in doing this.”
And every single parent said this. Every parent. And I just think it’s beautiful. And when I’ve talked around the country on this subject and they say, “So every one of these parents believed in their child.” And people say, “Come on, Margot. Every parent believes in their child.” And I’m like, “No. Every parent wants their child to be successful and happy, but most parents believe that if their child does the thing they love the most, that they can’t make a living.” So, so many parents with a child like my younger son who was writing music from 8th grade on, will say, “Of course you can take music lessons in high school, but in college you have to major in something useful.”
Or my oldest son whose passion is tennis and he was playing three, four hours a day, six days a week from 8th grade on. And a lot of parents will say, “Stop spending so much time on your sport and spend your time studying.” And when Elliott was honored by the tennis center where he trained, he was one of the first graduates to be honored for what he did off the court. And he said, “Everything I am today is because of tennis.” He said, “I wasn’t that interested in school. I wasn’t a great student.” He said, “Tennis is where I learned grit and focus and hard work and determination.”
And so, parents just have to support their child and tell them how proud they are for their success in the thing their child loves. That’s the most important thing. Not like, “I’m glad you’re doing whatever it is, painting, acting, singing, baking, cooking, playing tennis, whatever it is, but put that away and get back to your history.”
I think one of the challenges today of the modern parent, I think I’m speaking for myself and many others, is the challenge of video games where that can be a child’s only interest where I see so many skillsets that are built through teamwork and sports and extracurricular things where you’re putting yourself out there. What would you say to the parent who is struggling with something like video games be their passion? Is that something that you’d say, “Go for that” or would you encourage them to expand?
So, I actually have one person in my book.
And it does happen, yeah.
Yeah. His name is Thomas Vu and he ended up being the lead producer on League of Legends, which is a big video game like 100 million people play it. It’s like worldwide. And his parents always said, “As long as you get straight As, you can spend all your time on video games you want.” They were tough.
And he ended up, he was majoring in bioengineering in college and they had a speaker in one of their classes. And he went up and talked to him afterwards about an idea he had for the game. And the guy said, “Come to Sim City, the Electronic Arts, and come talk to us.” And he became one of the first group of Sim City interns. He dropped out of college. And he’s doing very well.
So, I think it’s hard to tell not knowing the kids, but video games, it’s a profession. And I don’t know anything about video games really, but Thomas feels like that’s where he learned risk taking. That’s where he learned problem solving. That’s where he learned so many different things that have helped him in every aspect of his life.
And I would say to the parents, they have to decide if it’s healthy or unhealthy, but it can definitely be a job. It can definitely be a career. And it’s an interesting question you’ve asked because I think something that’s hard for parents is they have this image in their head that the world is the way it was when they grew up.
And when you grew up, you needed to get good grades in all your subjects. You needed to have lots of extracurricular activities just so you were well-rounded. You needed to get good grades on the SAT and get into a good college and you needed to graduate. You needed to get a good job. That’s just gone. That might work for some kids in some professions, but it’s definitely not the only group to success in life anymore and parents, they’re trying to be helpful, but they’re often not.
Yeah. I appreciate that you say that because that was what I was thinking going into it of at least in my mind, growing up in a family of educators, there was a very clear path of you graduate high school, you get a degree, and then perhaps to go on to higher levels of education from there.
And I think especially with the internet, I teach groups of moms how to become virtual assistants from home so that they can support their family and also have their own business. And that’s something that when I was going to college, that didn’t exist. And I tell my kids now, I say, “Chances are what you end up doing may or may not be available right now. The world is changing and there’s so much opportunity and growth and innovation.”
And so, I think that is at the stage in where there’s not this cookie cutter path of this is the way to success because really, it’s a universe of success. There are so many paths that you can take and really it comes down to the grit and the risk taking.
So, what would you say, and I’m curious about from hearing the kids’ perspectives that were willing to take the risk, what kind of financial risks were they taking and were the parents supporting them financially as they were trying to work out whatever business or activism that they were a part of? How was that handled? Because I know that can be an issue is that financial support piece and how long are they attached to their apron strings, so to speak?
There were a couple families that gave their kids some money to start their business, $10,000 or something, but most of these people did not. Mostly the way that they supported them was by saying, “If it fails and you need to move home again, it’s okay.”
So, for example, Jon Chu, the movie director who did Crazy Rich Asians, and I love his story which I’m happy to share with you later. So, he was filming. He fell in love with movies, making little movies when he was in 4th grade and it was his passion. And he was in high school.
He was supposed to be asleep and his mom came into his room and he was doing a movie on his computer. And his mom said, “Put that away and get some sleep and get ready for school. You have to start focusing on your studies.” And he burst into tears and he said, “You can’t make me stop. I love this. This is what I want to do for my whole life.” And his mom said, “Go to sleep. We’ll talk tomorrow.”
And she picked him up at school the next day and she’d gone to the library and she’d borrowed all these film-making books. And she said, “If you want to do it, be the best.” And he said he always had the most support from his parents after that. And he went to USC film school and he’d produced this small film at the end. And he was showing it and it actually got him an agent and really got him started.
His parents ran a Chinese restaurant on Palo Alto, Chef Chu’s. And a week before, his mom said, “What are you serving?” And he’s like, “What?” And they’re like, “You have to serve food and drink to these people coming to your film.” He was like, “I hadn’t thought about it.” So, his whole family drove down to Los Angeles and went to Costco and got plates and plastic glasses and cases of champagne and food and served everybody. And they’re just so sweet. But Jon said he always knew he had his parents’ support. He always knew he could go home again if he failed. And he said that’s what enabled him to take risk.
I love that so much. I love it. Okay, you can relate with that mom saying, “Go to bed.” And you can relate with that feeling of you have to get good grades because that’s what drilled into our heads. I know it was with mine. And I love so much that she embraced that and said, “If you’re going to do it, be the best,” and just gave that little nudge out the door.
A story comes to mind of John Krasinski, which is very similar. He was one of main actors on The Office and it was where his mom said, he was ready to throw in the towel and she said, “Give it one more year. Go for one more year, and then let’s see.” And sure enough, it was three weeks later that he got an interview for The Office.
So, I love that as a child, you want to please your parents, that’s just the way it is. And that’s the way it always will be. You want to please your parents. And so, to have that unconditional support is just priceless.
Priceless. And they all had it. Every one of them, which is amazing to me, but you were saying you grew up in a family of educators. My father was a professor. I grew up in university towns. I didn’t know anybody who didn’t at least have a college degree. I have an MBA. My husband has a law degree. It actually never crossed our mind that we could have a child who didn’t graduate from college. It just wasn’t something that occurred to me until halfway through his junior year of college and said, “I’m taking a semester off.” And then, it was another semester. And then, it was another semester.
And looking back, it was the best thing he ever did because a month before he would have graduated is when he did the first Summit trip. He cold called 18 young entrepreneurs and invited them for a ski weekend in Utah. And if he’d spent another year and a half in college, not studying classes he wasn’t interested in, the moment would have passed him by.
One reason the Summit ended up being what it was because it was the very first time millennial entrepreneurs had gathered together in 2008. So, if he had waited, graduated from college, and they just wouldn’t let him take one class he wanted. He decided he was interested in finance, they said, “There’s a calculus requirement.” It’s ridiculous. I have an MBA. I never took calculus. It’s just stupid for them to say, “You can’t take an entry-level finance course without calculus.” So, there was just no class he wanted to take and we were horrified. We were horrified. We were like, “Oh my God, how is he going to survive without a college degree?” We thought that was essential. And there you go.
And it wasn’t. So, you have two sons. You have one that started the Summit entrepreneurial group, and then you have another son that is in a band, which I was just pulling up the music before our call and it’s MAGIC GIANT and I love the music. I already added it to favorites. It is way chill and fun music. Tell me about your other son that has his band.
Yeah. So, I consider both my kids entrepreneurs. They didn’t start businesses, but they started organizations. My son started a band. And it’s wonderful. And as you know, they’re both basically in businesses that were affected by the pandemic.
Having an organization that has in-person events that had to be put on hold, and then the band in the winter of 2020, they were on a 40-city sold out tour across America. Friday, March 6th, 2020, they were on Good Morning America and it was just wow, the band is taking off. And they went home and they thought three weeks later, they’d go out in the spring tour. It was the last live show that Good Morning America did in 2020. The world just shut down, and then they had to stop performing live for two years.
So, I’m just curious. This is off topic a little bit, but was that a time for them as musicians that they were able to continue creating? Did they just come up with a bunch of songs?
Yeah. So, that’s pretty cool. I’m curious also if they’ve been trying to grow their following on TikTok. Do you know?
A little, but not that much. They have a lot of loyal fans.
Tell them to get on TikTok because I’ve seen some really new and exciting musicians that really even got their start during the pandemic on TikTok where before they were just doing covers of other people’s music, but their songs just took off.
And it’s been a really interesting phenomenon for the music industry in my opinion is TikTok because the sounds are reused, reused, reused, and so then they are actually picking up songs that are popular on TikTok and putting those on the radio. So, anyway, side note, I know that’s so random, but that’s just something that I’ve seen in the pandemic that’s affected the music industry in a way I’ve never seen before.
Yeah. They don’t really do covers.
No, of course. It was actually people who started as covers, but then they got their own music.
I see what you’re saying, yeah.
Yeah. It’s like they wouldn’t have been discovered otherwise where it was like maybe I can do this myself. And so, it was just a really interesting way of getting into becoming an artist in that regard of I have an audience now that likes my voice. I’ll come out with my own music kind of thing. So, it’s been interesting.
I just wanted tell you one more story about dropping out of college. So, I was actually at a Summit event in Powder Mountain and talking about raising kids and everything. And a distraught father came up to me afterwards and said, “Can I talk to you?” And I said, “Sure.” And he said he was so upset. He hadn’t talked to his son in three weeks. His son was at college and had started some little company in his dorm room. And his dad thought it was a stupid company and his son had just told him he was going to drop out and move back home and try to work on the company. And his father was hysterical.
And I saw somebody standing over there who I knew had made billions of dollars and hadn’t graduated from college. So, I called him over and I said, “Craig, I want to ask you a question. You have a choice of two kids to hire. One kid started a company, worked at it really hard for a couple years, decided it wasn’t a go, but he’s a go-getter and now he wants to try something different. The other one stayed in college, graduated, no real passion, no particular subject that he’s excelled in, but he did graduate from college. Which one will you hire?”
And without blinking, Craig said, “The first one and so would the other 150 entrepreneurs in this room.” And this father was like, “Wow, okay.” It just hadn’t occurred to him. It’s what you were saying before. It’s like a new world. He thought his son was ruining his life.
That’s so interesting. I would love to hear another story from your book. I know you shared with us Jon Chu. Was there another that comes to mind that you love?
I have hundreds that come to mind.
Give us two more. How about that?
Okay. Two of my favorites, so okay. So, one of my favorites is this guy, Dhani Jones. And he played football in high school and he was really good. And he hadn’t really started playing until I think he was a sophomore. He just wasn’t on the radar of a lot of scouts. And he was a good student. And he really wanted to go to the University of Michigan where he had a family member who had gone.
And he had gotten into Michigan on the strength of the grades and he was being recruited by some other schools, but not by Michigan. So, he and his mom went to the University of Michigan to look at it and they made an appointment with the football coach. And they talked to the coach. And the coach said, “We’ve already given away our football scholarships for his position, but if he wants to try to walk on in the fall, since he's gotten in on the basis of academics, that would be fine.”
And his mom knew that if you’re a walk-on, it’s not just the money, you just don’t have any of the prestige. And she also had this suspicion that the coach had never looked at her son’s tape. And she looked over at Dhani, who was just sitting there crushed. And she said to coach, “I’m not paying for him to go to Michigan when the University of Washington has offered him a full scholarship, but just to let you know, when he sacks your quarterback in The Rose Bowl, you’re going to be really sorry.”
And apparently, this encouraged the coach to look at the tape, his football tape. And two days later, they got a call saying the quarterback’s coach was coming down to watch him play. And three days after that, he had a full scholarship offer at Michigan. He was an All-American three years and his senior year, when Michigan played Washington in The Rose Bowl, he sacked their quarterback twice.
There you go. Oh my gosh, I have chills. I love this so much, yeah.
I love this story. And the whole point of this is just it’s standing up for your child and showing them you believe in them and giving them confidence in themselves. And by the way, he’s a very confident guy today. But it’s a beautiful story.
I love that. If there’s anyone that’s going to advocate for your child, it will be you as the parent. There’s no one else that cares as much. And not that that means you need to be the one on the sidelines shouting foul when it’s not, but to be willing to speak up for them. I think there’s so much strength and a lot of times, it’s a matter of asking. And I’ve seen that in my life time and time again that the first no doesn’t have to be the final answer. So, I love that so, so much. Okay. Do you have another one for us? This is so fun. I can’t wait to read your book.
Okay. This is a beautiful story and I always have trouble actually saying it without crying. So, there’s a woman named Nyla Rogers and she was raised by a single mom. And she always knew she was interested in international affairs and had interned at an international agency like the UN or something and was thinking she would do something like that after graduate school.
And her mom got cancer and ended up dying shortly. So, what Nyla hadn’t realized, her mom was so lonely when Nyla was off at college and she adopted a kid in Africa where you send money and write back and forth and back and forth to each other and he was almost a second son. And it had always been her dream to meet this kid, but she never did.
And shortly after her mom passed away, her boyfriend’s mother’s friend was leading a school group to Africa and asked Nyla if she wanted to come and chaperone and help her. And Nyla said, “Absolutely.” And it turned out it was in the same village where this young man, Bernard, was from. And he wrote to the sponsoring organization and asked if she could meet with him when she got there.
And when she arrived, there were 500 people waiting, singing Amazing Grace and having a memorial service for her mom and it turned out that when her mom was sick and she never had much money, she’d always been very much we give what we can and we do what we can, and Bernard had written and said, “If we can get $1,500, we could start a community bank.”
And her mom didn’t have $1,500, but she decided that she would raise it and she did bake sales and all these different kinds of things. And she had sent $1,500. They’d started a community bank. 10 women had started companies. 8 of them had paid the money back and more women were using it to start their companies and her $1,500 had transformed the village.
And Nyla said, right then and there, she decided that her mom’s $1,500 was more impactful than any of these large aid programs that she had seen. And she decided that that’s what she would spend her life doing. And she started an organization called Mama Hope. And it goes to different communities and says, “Tell us what you need and we’ll see if we can help get you the funding for it.” And they’ve helped hundreds of communities in countries all over the world now.
Wow. That is so beautiful. What an incredible impact and I think that a lot of times, I wonder about who and what to donate in situations like that because I have been scammed before of people saying, “Send money to my village.” And I’m like, “Who are you? Is this a real deal?” So, I can’t wait to look up her organization because that’s something that I’ve been looking for and I would love to interview her.
What a cool story. Oh my gosh. This has been absolutely phenomenal. Thank you so much for spending this time, Margot. And I want everyone to buy or listen to your book. So, tell us where we can find it.
So, it’s called Raising an Entrepreneur, how to help your children achieve these 99 stories from families who did. And the audiobook is on Audible and the e-book and the paperback are on Amazon. And I’m sorry the paperback is currently sold out at Amazon, but if you sign up, they’ll get it to you as soon as they print some more copies.
Yeah. They’re pretty good with that. I have some things on Amazon and it doesn’t take too long. So, we’ll make sure to link that below and we are also going to be doing a book giveaway. So, stay tuned on @callmeceopodcast on Instagram so that you can make sure to take part of that. And Margot, thank you so much for being on the show today. It’s been an absolute pleasure.
For me too.
Hey, everyone. Just taking a quick minute right now to tell you that I am accepting new students in my 60 Days to VA program where I teach moms how to be business owners. You can be an entrepreneur yourself and I will take you from the very bare minimum of not knowing anything of what a virtual assistant does to creating and marketing your own virtual assistant business.
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Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you haven’t yet, please subscribe and leave a rating and review. Every share on this podcast helps it to grow. And as an entrepreneur podcaster, it means so much when you do that. So, please reach out. Let me know if you have any questions or comments or ideas of who you’d like here on the show and thank you so much for listening.
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