“Call Me CEO” is your master-class on innovation, creativity, leadership, and finding YOUR perfect balance between motherhood and entrepreneurship.

Have you ever wondered what steps you can take to improve or switch your career? In this episode, Camille welcomes Ken Coleman, the #1 bestselling author of The Proximity Principle and the host of the nationally syndicated radio show The Ken Coleman Show. He helps people discover what their purpose is, identify their talents, and coaches them on how to find their dream job and what they need to do to improve their careers. He is also the author of the new book, From Paycheck to Purpose.

A really good coach has got to have a heart for the person and the heart for the result, not just good at it and enjoy some of the technique and the teaching part.

—Ken Coleman

Ken describes his 10-year journey from starting a career in politics and shifting to broadcasting after realizing his purpose and talents. He talks about the seven stages to achieve work that gives you both impact and income and the questions you can ask yourself to determine what steps you should take to further your career. He gives advice on how to overcome the feelings of self-doubt, fear, and pride when facing difficult career choices and the importance of having a coach and a mentor.

I think everyone should have a mentor and multiple mentors in different areas of your life… but I think that you should also have a coach. And I think the mentor’s one thing and the coach is the next.

—Ken Coleman

If you’re looking for ways to improve your career or you’re interested in pursuing a different career, listen to this episode to learn more about the stages and the important questions you can ask yourself to make the right career decision.

It’s okay to be doubtful. It’s okay to have fear. It’s normal by the way. We never get rid of those things, but the way we overcome them is by retreating to clarity.

—Ken Coleman


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Because a really good coach, a really good coach is good not because of their technique, not because of their skill, but because of their heart.


So, you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice? How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.


CAMILLE [0:41]

I've been a long-time believer in the fact that every single one of us has a divine purpose with gifts and talents that we were born to come to Earth to share. And my next guest agrees with me wholeheartedly as he is the new author of From Paycheck to Purpose. Ken Coleman is a nationally syndicated radio host of the Ken Coleman show and number one bestselling author. He has been featured in Forbes. He's appeared on Fox News, Fox Business Network, and the Rachael Ray Show.

Since 2014, he has served as Dave Ramsey Solutions where he is an expert on giving advice to people on what to do and how to land their dream job, but really digging into their purpose. And I hope that you are listening with a pen and paper because we are going through step-by-step formulas of how you can discover your divine purpose as well. You can pick up his book anywhere books are sold right now, From Paycheck to Purpose. Let's dive in.

Hey, if you're listening to this episode right now and thinking that this is something that you want to dig a little bit more into today, I have a free discover your why practice where you can go through a free five-day series of discovering your purpose and your why. Go to camillewalker.co or check the Show Notes below.

Well, we are here on Call me CEO today with Ken Coleman, a number one bestselling author and also a co-host who owns his own show, but also works with Dave Ramsey. And if you listen to some of my episodes before, you know we are big Dave Ramsey fans around here and cannot be more thrilled to have Ken with us today. Thank you so much for being here.

KEN [2:23]

Thanks for having me.

CAMILLE [2:24]

So, today we are talking specifically about From Paycheck to Purpose, your brand-new book. And I have fallen in love with it because it taps into a big passion of mine, which is helping women discover their passion and purpose. Now, I have to give you a little bit of a backstory here because at Call Me CEO, this podcast is all about mothers who have built businesses. You are my first male guest ever.

KEN [2:50]

Oh my goodness. I was very relaxed. And now all of a sudden, I'm terrified. I'll do my best to serve the ladies, but that is a high honor. Thank you.

CAMILLE [3:00]

Well, I appreciate it and I'm sure our audience will as well with everything that you have to offer. From reading your book, I'm a huge fan and everything that you do. I was just recently listening to some advice you were giving to a stay-at-home mom and how to discover her passion and really dive into that. So, I want to give you a little bit of a chance though to tell us about you and your journey because on this show, we talk about how we started and how we built and became what we are today. So, give us a little bit of a story of how you came to be where you are now and how you found your purpose of helping others find theirs.

KEN [3:35]

Yeah. So, I felt at a pretty young age, I'd say 16, 17, that I knew what I was supposed to do with my life and it was a public call, certainly a communicator, but it was going to be in politics. That's what I thought. So, I pursued that. And fast forward, because this is a very long story, you asked me a very big question and I don't want our audience to fall asleep, so the quick version, fast forward to 33 years of age, I have a real disconnect with politics. It's something that I'm supposed to do and yet it's something that was always the mountain top for me. It was what I thought I was supposed to do. It wasn't just a dream job. It was all about purpose.

I thought it was what I was called to do and I began to have some serious, serious doubts about it and came to the conclusion that that was not the path for me. And so, that's really unsettling when you've been looking at one mountain for a long time. And it's not all of a sudden, I shouldn't say that, several years and finally coming to grips with it, this isn't it. So, what? So, what now? And it's pretty, pretty awful to go through.

And so, I wrestled with it, wrestled with it, wrestled with it, and came to the conclusion it was broadcasting. But the problem with this is that I don't have any experience in it. I don't have a degree in it. I don't have a whole lot of connections. And so, that was equally intimidating. So, you go from disappointing to intimidating. Disappointing in the sense that did I waste all this time? How come I didn't figure this out when I was 23, not 33? And then certainly intimidating, am I too old? People told me that I was too old to get into this, too late. You've got a wife, three kids. So, the wrestling, the fear, the doubt, the pride that I had to overcome to actually step out and stay on the path, which was a seven-year journey for the big break to come to Ramsey Solutions and another three years of serving, paying my dues to step into the dream job. So, 10 years.

So, that journey of discovery and then walking it out when I figured out, wait a second. I've always wanted to communicate and I wanted to help people and realizing that at the core of what I wanted to do was coaching and coach people, but how do I do that in a broadcasting space or on a broadcasting platform? And so, trying to figure that out was fun and scary, but the whole process was, wait a second. I'm going to go on talk radio and I'm going to coach people. And then, we're going to move into TV and where that process of praying through and looking for opportunities and hoping that those present themselves, the right opportunities. So, that's how it came about. That's the shortest way that I can answer that, but it was that I went through my own trial and error and came up with a process, years later as I looked back at my journey.

CAMILLE [6:48]

Yeah. I think that all of those feelings that you expressed are so relatable. And many times, for women where they may feel like they missed the boat because they didn't start young, because they were at home with kids or they had to put their own pursuits on delay. And then, they're thinking, "Oh, I don't have the qualifications. I don't have everything else now that I'm this much older."

And I think that that journey is so relatable. And in your book, you speak specifically about going to an audition where you said, "I got this, I got this" and you go in for a recording and you bomb it. Can you tell us about that and how you were able to overcome those feelings of self-doubt?

KEN [7:27]

Oh my gosh. It's painful to even think about it now. I wrote about this in the process of getting qualified and I was trying to get any connection I could. And so, I pulled some strings. I got an opportunity to go in and record some television highlights on a NASCAR show in the Atlanta-based area and just to get a reel, which is like a demo.

And so, I go in. And I hadn't tried to do highlights at home. I didn't even practice like, "Oh, I can do this. I’m going to read a script and I'm pretty confident in front of people. I've been on stage a lot." And so, I go in there and just the pressure got to me because all the crew, the show was over, and this guy who barely knew me was doing me a favor for somebody else. And it was all quick and I felt hurried. I thought it was going to be warmer. It thought it was going to be cozied up a little bit.

Nope. "You just saw the highlights I just did to finish the show. We're going to run that. You just do it." It’s not their fault, but that's what it was like. I was intimidated. I was scared. I remember my mouth being so dry I didn't think I was going to be able to pull my lips apart when the red light turned to green. It was like, "Go."

And as I detail in the book, sports highlights, they're so fast. And once you get behind, there's no catching up. It's impossible and my brain failed me. My heart failed me. I was a mess and I did it twice. And I think the second one was actually worse than the first one and it was just obvious that they didn't want to be there. I did not want to be there. I would have rather gone out and tried to dodge traffic on 85 than do that one more time. And so, I said, "Guys, thank you so much. I think this'll work." And I just scuttled to the car and I'll never forget it. And I said to myself, "I'm never again going to try to put myself in a position that I don't have the qualifications and the chops to be able to do it. I’m not going to try to fake it, not in this stuff. It's too devastating."

CAMILLE [9:25]

And that leads into the four E's that you give in the book where you say, you need the education, the experience, the economic, and the expectation. But what I thought was really fascinating is when you talked about education and how it's not necessarily what you think it might be in a traditional sense. So, for those who are maybe wanting to change career paths or starting something new into the workforce, talk to us a little bit about education and how you can implement that piece in a way maybe you hadn't considered?

KEN [9:55]

Yeah. What you just mentioned are the four qualifying questions that I unpack in stage two, get qualified. And it allows people to realize that you can get up the mountain, but you've got to answer those questions. The first question is the education question. What do I need to learn to be able to get the ticket to do what I want to do?

And so, as you pointed out, it doesn't have to be a four-year degree. Now, more than ever, we see this to be true. Now, 25, 30 years ago, that may not have been true, but it's certainly true now. There are more ways to get qualified that don't require a four-year degree or an advanced degree. And so, the thing you look at, you go, "Okay. This is what I want to do." And so, I ask myself, "What do I need to learn? What's the education requirement to get in the door?" So, for many, many careers, you know this, it can be an online certification. It could be a two-year associates degree at a community college is all you need. It could just be some accreditation and again this is an online opportunity.

So, that's what I want people to do. Before we just assume that when I pivot and change directions or look at a different mountain, I can't assume that I've got to take on four years of school or maybe more and crazy amounts of tuition, which you need cash flowing or people going into debt for. We don't want you to do either one of those.

There's a two-part question that I ask callers on the Ken Coleman show. They call in and they go, "Hey, Ken. I'm going to pivot. I just need to know your thoughts, man. Do I need to go to school?" And I go, "You tell me. There's the two-part question. Is it the only way? Is a degree the only way to get in and do what you want to do?" Obviously, there's professions that is true, lawyer, doctor pop up on the top of the list. If it's not the only way, the second question is, is it the best way?

And so, if the answer is no to either one of them, free yourself. Fly little bird. Go do what you need to do to get qualified, but you don't have to go to school. So, don't tell yourself that you do. But we've just been beat down on by the higher education industry and their wonderful brilliant marketers and they've been telling us that the only way to success is through a degree and that just couldn't be any more false. That's not the only way.

CAMILLE [12:06]

I agree. Let's dissect that a little bit because you do talk about how we can disqualify ourselves in our minds before we ever get started and I think that that's something that we do without even realizing we're doing it. What advice would you give to someone who tends to doubt themselves as we all do or all have, I'm sure?

KEN [12:26]

Yeah. I think the best way to do it is to put the voice of doubt or the voice of fear on trial. All right. So, we've all seen these legal movies or legal shoes. And so, we got a witness on the stand. And I really think it's this simple. Whatever the voice of doubt is telling you, let's put it on the witness stand. So, the first requires us to go, what am I really doubting?

I can't tell you how many people will call in the show and I can hear doubt and fear all over them in their voice. But when I press them, they haven't done the work of saying, "Oh, this is specifically what I'm afraid of or this is specifically what I'm doubting." So, we want to get the thought of our head and let's look at it.

So, let's just take for example one classic doubt and let's say the voice is saying it's too late. I'm too old. It's too late for me to do this. Okay. Let's see if that's true. So, we wrote it down and we look at it. And it's saying, it's too late. I'm too old. My ship has sailed. Okay. Let's put it on the witness stand.

Now, let's look at that. Is that in fact true? So, let's go do our homework. Let's look at those four qualifying questions. What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? What experience do I need? What is it going to cost me? And then based on my financial reality, how long is it going to take? Those are the four qualifying questions. The education question, the experience question, the economic question, the expectation question. Those four questions, go answer them. Get the evidence and then we find out if doubt is telling us the truth. It may be possible that it is. But it's also possible that it's lying to us.

So, for instance, if we go find out that yes, it is too late, then we go, okay. What's my pivot? I'm going to do something similar that doesn't have whatever the qualification is. So, if you're 85 and you're trying to do something and no one's going to hire an 85-year-old, then we can get some evidence that in fact, your doubt is right.

Same thing with fear. If I get too close to a fire or I get too close that if I were to fall over the edge or fall into the fire and it would hurt me and my body is saying, "Fear, fear, fear." Fear's telling me the truth there. I do the same thing. Well, by the way, we don't do this. We just know, "Oh gosh, if I fall into the fire, it's going to burn me badly and maybe kill me." Fear is telling me to back up.

But we don’t do this when it comes to purpose and our careers and doing work that matters to us, we just don't. We tend to just let the fear win and we don't explore. And I'm going to tell you one reason is because we humans would rather be miserable than uncomfortable. Just think about that. You know why? Because I know why I'm miserable and I've bitten my lip or I've held on and I've just made it through. I know I can make it through, but boy, you tell me about going out here and I don't know all the details and I don't know how it's going to happen or when it's going to happen. The unknown is way scarier than the misery is awful and I think we've got to own that.

CAMILLE [15:40]

That's such a good point. And my mind is going a few different places because I talk to entrepreneurs quite often and that fear exists, but also the calling within you has to be bigger than that. You have to be willing to take that step into the unknown. And one question that I have and my brother comes to mind specifically is, where say you have someone in a situation where they're in a job that's comfortable, it pays the bills, but they are confused with, am I paying my dues for getting to that next level or am I simply limiting myself where I can be doing something else that I love? And so, where do you put in that shuffle of how do I line up in that space?

KEN [16:24]

Well, same thing. Let's just get to the facts. When we stay in our own heads, it's awful. So, in your brother's situation, he could call you. He can call an objective colleague or somebody else that he trusts that he knows is going to tell him the truth or he can call me on the Ken Coleman Show and in less than three minutes, we would have your brother in a place where he would know the answer to that question. Am I paying my dues or am I stunting my growth on holding on too long?

Well, the answer's pretty darn clear. He just has to investigate it. Is he paying his dues? Is there another step up the ladder that's available to him right now? Yes or no? If the answer is yes, well then he's scared or he's full of doubt or something's holding him back and he's got all these safe reasons why he shouldn't do it and he's rationalizing.

If the answer is no, there's not another step right now because he needs another year of experience and where he currently is, that's where he's going to get the experience. And if he goes to somewhere else, it's really not that much difference at all. And so, to me, it's always about the ladder. Is there an opportunity to step on the next rung? And if there is, then he shouldn't be doing that or pursuing that. That would be my answer to that question.

CAMILLE [17:35]

Yeah. I like those questions. Those are so straightforward. Yeah. I know. The funny thing is he actually has left that golden handcuff situation. He is actually going after the thing which is what I've been telling him to do for years, so I'm happy to report I did my sisterly duty and I gave him that kick and it's going good so far, but he is scared.

It's scary. I think that the difference, we all go through that fear and it's taking that step anyway and that can be really overwhelming. Now, I have a personal question for you. For those of us who perhaps love to help others to find their purpose, as I said, I talk to women all the time who are like, "I want to get into the workforce. I want to build a business online," and I have actually created a course for women to build their own virtual assistant business that they can do from home and be with their kids and be able to work online.

KEN [18:28]


CAMILLE [18:29]

Yeah. It's been really fun, but I keep getting pulled into the coaching realm of women wanting me to coach them to build online or brick-and-mortar businesses. What would you suggest for someone who is wanting to do coaching because it's that question of, how much does it cost? How long is it going to take? What would be your advice on becoming a coach of sorts in helping someone to discover theirs?

KEN [18:57]

Well, number one, you already are a coach. You already are, right? On some level. You may not call yourself a coach or you might not have some certification, but who gives a crap? The bottom line is you already coach women.

So, now there's an opportunity where you've been coaching them to start a certain type of business and now you got women coming to you because they respect you and there's something they see in you. And they go, "I think she can coach me in other areas." So, before you do that, ask yourself a question. Do you love coaching? Because what we don't want to do is be tempted by opportunity. But if you love coaching and you get the juice, and when you think about, I'm making this up, 10 women that have reached out to you and they're in your inbox and they're waiting for a response.

And if you click yes and you take their money, then you get to coach them and you think about the amount of sessions, the amount of time, the amount of preparation, all the energy that goes into that. If you think about that, you go, "Oh, man that would be a great day," then I would do it. But if it's just a business opportunity and you're like, "Meh," then I wouldn't do it. But you knew I was going to say that. You got to love it. Let me tell you something. I don't want to hire a coach who doesn't love coaching.

CAMILLE [20:13]

Right. Because that's just drudgery for everyone.

KEN [20:15]

Yeah, because you know why? Because a really good coach, a really good coach is good, not because of their technique, not because of their skill, but because of their heart. A really good coach has got to have a heart for the person and the heart for the result, not just good at it and enjoy some of the technique and the teaching part. You know what I mean? There's really good teachers and really good coaches out there, they're good technically, but they're not great. And the reason they're not great is because they don't love everything that goes into coaching. So, anyway, I was just giving you that.

CAMILLE [20:55]

Do you think that It's important to invest in a coach for those who are listening and thinking, maybe they've been running their business for a few years, 10 years, 15 years, do you think that every person should have a mentor at every level? And if so, how have you done that for yourself?

KEN [21:10]

I'm going to give you a bonus answer. I think everyone should have a mentor and multiple mentors in different areas of your life. So, I think you should have a marriage mentor. I think you should have a parenting mentor. I think you should have a professional mentor, for sure those three. But I think that you should also have a coach and I think the mentor's one thing and the coach is the next.

So, your first question was, do you think everybody needs a coach? The answer is yes, absolutely. You just absolutely need a coach. If you want to be great, you need a coach. The greater golfers in the world have got coaches that can't even hang with him if they play golf against each other. It’s not about that. It's about an objective person looking at you, coaching you. So, yes, everybody needs a coach and everybody needs a mentor, two separate relationships.

The coach is coming in and instructing. They are correcting because they instruct first, "This is how you do it" and then they correct. And then, they hold you accountable to getting better and doing what you need to do. And then, they just encourage the heart. I think those are the four roles of a coach. The mentor is the sage, somebody who's got so much wisdom and knowledge that's way out in front of us. They've got so much more experience and they're like the adviser. It's a little bit different relationship. They certainly can coach you, but the coach is a different relationship. The mentor is different.

CAMILLE [22:35]

That's really insightful. I like that. So, what would be your advice on where to find those people in your life? Because there's different areas. Of course, we can just focus on the business for the purposes of this question. But where do you think people should search for that?

KEN [22:51]

I would actually search for somebody who, if they don't have a coaching business, I'd want a legitimate coach. You do your homework on them and they've got a track record. They've been doing it a long time. They went through some legitimate organization to get their certification. That's not hard to figure out. I would start there.

If you're going to get somebody who isn't doing this full-time or even part-time and it's not official, but they love coaching people, that would be a little bit more of a mentor/coach. But I want to find somebody that really gets excited about coaching. And to be honest with you, I want somebody that's getting paid. I want to demand of them as much as they're going to demand of me.

So, if I hire somebody at the gym to be a trainer, I'm paying premium for that hour every other day or week or whatever I'm doing. And so, I want them to bring, "What are the results? What are you measuring me on? What's our goal here? You show me your plan. I'm paying you, pal. This is where I need help. You said you can help me. How are you going to help me?" And then, let's look at the plan and let's measure this. Okay. That's what you would expect of a trainer.

I think it's the same with the coach. And when you're paying somebody who's legitimate, then that tension is not bad tension, it's natural tension. It's like, "Let's go." If you get somebody who's a friend, who's experienced, and blah, blah, blah and you're not paying them, you don't feel like you can demand from them. You know what I mean? And they've got other things going on. So, that's why if you really want to pursue coaching and get coached, I'd pay someone who's really, really good because now we've got the proper boundaries.

CAMILLE [24:28]

Yeah. Have you had a coach in your life or a mentor that changed your trajectory or changed your life?

KEN [24:34]

I've had several. I had a mentor who helped me in my relationships with my wife and my kids and still does. I can call and say, "Hey, I feel like I'm not doing good here. I feel like I'm rusty or I feel like I'm banging into myself here and I need some help." Certainly, in marriage, also professionally, I had several mentors. I had three or four in my early 20s and they were men I could just call when I was down and I needed some wisdom, I got no choices or I was just down. "Hey, am I delusional? Please tell me. Am I wasting my time?"

Because it was a lonely long journey. At 7 years to get to Ramsey, it was a long journey. And there were many times where I thought, "Man, I'm delusional. I am too old. No one's giving me a shot, all the things." And having those mentors who would say, "Dude, suck it up. Get over yourself. I told you this four months ago. It's still the same you're not delusional. Stay with it. Look at all the things you have done since a year or two ago and you would have gnawed your right leg off to be where you are now. Get over yourself. You're fine, man. Buck up."

CAMILLE [25:45]

I love that analogy you shared in your book about your dad saying how you were on a team and you were one of the youngest of the team. And he said, "Just keep playing. Keep pushing someday because someday, it's going to be your time." When was it when you got to the Ramsey Solutions team or that you felt like, "I've made it" where you had that moment where you're like, "This is it?"

KEN [26:09]

I understand the spirit of your question, so I'm going to answer it two ways. The spirit of your question, when did you feel like you made it in the sense of, "Okay. I got into my dream job?" And that's when I became a Ramsey Personality in 2017 because I had stepped into my dream job. And if you know from the book, that's stage 6. And now, that's about giving myself away. And so, from that standpoint, I haven't made it yet.

I talk about this in the book. And what I love about the beauty of the 7 stages is that we give the metaphor of mountain climbing and we pay it off as you know at the end of the book. When we're walking through these stages, get clear, get qualified, get connected, get started, get promoted, get the dream job, give yourself away, all the way up to stage 6, we're doing this, so we're looking up. Looking up.

And then, when we get to the stage 6 at the top of the mountain, the dream job, now our view changes. Now we're looking out. In stage 6 and 7, you're in consecutively, you're in the same time because I'm in the dream job where I am in Ramsey Solutions, but now my vision is different. My vision is here. It was here to get here to the top of the mountain.

But at the top of the mountain now, my vision changes. Now, it's like, "Okay. So, I really repeat the seven stages again. Get clear. What's this out here?" It's not just about getting the Ken Coleman show and saying that I'm nationally syndicated or I'm SiriusXM. Nobody gives a crap about that. By the way, that stuff is cool, but it doesn't change who I am. The day that I got the phone call two and a half years ago when The Proximity Principle surprised everybody and it was number one on the Wall Street Journal list, I was in shock and it was humbling. It was exciting.

It was all the things, but this is true. 45 minutes after I call everybody and answered all the texts and emails from the team and family and all the things, I was sitting alone in my room in Portland Oregon. And I was sitting there on the end of the bed and I was just looking at the mirror, looking at myself, and I went, "That's really freaking cool, but I'm still the same guy."

And so, when we get to the top of the mountain, it's like, "Look, now it's about expanding the vision and this legacy." So, I'm not working for income anymore. I'm working for impact. The income is there. The superlatives, all the things. It's now about I work to make a difference in the lives of the people that I long to connect with and encourage and equip. So, that's the thing. I haven't made it. And I don't think I'll ever make it. I think I'll just keep going until the good Lord says, "Okay. You're done."

CAMILLE [28:48]

Yeah. Well, man, you're on a really good trajectory for fulfilling that mission. And I know that you wholeheartedly believe that everyone has a divine purpose and a mission. So, speaking to that person who is listening right now and having ideas of, "Oh, these are things I want to do or this is what could be," what advice would you give them of starting with that first step or taking that detour of maybe doing something new, how would you advise them?

KEN [29:18]

I want you to follow the stages that are outlined in the book. If you don't buy the book, it's not going to hurt my feelings. I'll never know anyway. So, there's no awkwardness here, but just get clear first. Get clear. You know what clarity brings? The reason I called the first stage get clear is because when a person is clear, then they are confident and when a person is confident, then and only then do they have what it takes to summon courage. So, courage doesn't just come out of nowhere. That is a big bunch of Hollywood imagination crap. People don't just get courageous. It's not something that you just go, "Oh, I need to be courageous right now." And all of a sudden, I turn into this courageous superhero. Clarity happens first. Confidence second. Courage third.

Let me give you a quick example. I don't know if you've ever read stories in the news or seen news where someone has put themselves in physical danger to save the life or to rescue someone. We all have. And it could be a burning car, jumping into icy waters. And then, we marvel at that as we should. We say, "They were a hero. They were so courageous."

Yes, but let's watch what happened. In the moment, that person who acted with great courage first got clear instantaneously like hyper second, "This person's going to die. This person's in grave danger. They need help. That was the instantaneous thought. Right behind it comes confidence, "I can help him. I must help him. I'm the only one that can help. I got to do it." There's confidence, "I can do it. I’m the only one that can do it. I got to do it." Then courage takes over. They don't even think. And you watch these interviews and you read the interviews. And you know what they always say? "I didn't think much about it. I just acted." No, the brain went through get clear, get confident, get courageous. That's what happened. So, stage one for somebody who's thinking about moving to something else, it's terrifying. Fear, doubt, pride's all over the place. Fear of rejection, fear of failure, fear of what other people are going to say.

CAMILLE [31:39]

Impostor Syndrome.

KEN [31:39]

Yeah. Absolutely. Doubt comes in and then pride, "What are people going to think about me? I've left this successful thing over here to go over here." All that said, that's what your brother was dealing with, the golden handcuffs, fear, doubt, and pride. So, we get clear and we come back to what I teach. Do I have the talent? Do I have the talent? Do I have the God-given talent that I can hone into a skill or do already have it honed into a skill to do this work? Yes or no?

Then I look at passion. Do I love this work? As I look at this, do I feel like 80% of my day, I'm going to be doing something that gives me the juice? I look forward to it. When I'm in the middle of it, time seems to just disappear. And then, third, mission. Do the results of this work connect deeply to my values? If the answer is yes on all three of those, now there's confidence. It's okay to be doubtful. It's okay to have fear. It's normal by the way. We never get rid of those things. But the way we overcome them is by retreating to clarity.

You know I write about this in the book. Throughout our entire journey, start to get a little doubtful, a little fearful, what do I do? Retreat to clarity. Is this in my sweet spot? Do I have the talent? Do I have the passion? Is it on mission? If the answer is yes, yes, and yes, boom. And by the way, you don't have to decide to be courageous. When I retreat to clarity, just as I gave in that example of the hero rescuing someone from a burning car, our brain does the same thing. I get clear. Oh, boom, confident, courageous, okay. And then people will go and say, "Oh, you were so courageous." And you really could say, "Not really, I was just clear."

CAMILLE [33:18]

That's true. I never looked at it that way, the clarity brings the confidence, but it's true. When you know that mission and you know that you have the skills to do it, you just do it. I love that so much. Well, this has been absolutely fascinating and such an honor to have you as our first male guest.

KEN [33:34]

Oh my gosh, how'd I do?

CAMILLE [33:36]

So good.

KEN [33:38]

I hope I don't ruin it for future males. That's all I care about.

CAMILLE [33:42]

No, you're changing my mind, maybe I need to have a monthly guest as a male guest. I've just loved this so much. Please tell our audience where they can find you and listen to your show and also read your new book.

KEN [33:55]

Sure. Kencoleman.com is the easy way just to see what everything is going on and where you can connect. The show, the Ken Coleman Show, is on YouTube Live every day. And, of course, you can watch it later on demand. We're on podcast, whatever podcast you're listening to, we're on SiriusXM, the business channel. And then, we're also on 75 radio stations around the country, but kencoleman.com, a great way to figure out where and how to listen. And follow me on Instagram @kencoleman. I'm on the gram, as the kids say, and we're giving you good content.

CAMILLE [34:28]

I'm following you.

KEN [34:28]

Thank you very much.

CAMILLE [34:30]

You're welcome.

KEN [34:31]

Thank you. I do a lot of lives on Instagram and I love to interact with folks. And then, they can buy the book same place, kencoleman.com. We have some great bundles that includes the Get Clear Career Assessment, which is a 20-minute online assessment that breaks down talent, passion, mission and fills out a personal purpose statement that becomes a compass and filter for all future professional decisions. You can retreat to clarity by looking at your purpose statement. So, I'm really proud of that tool. It's a wonderful tool. You can get that at kencoleman.com as well.

CAMILLE [35:00]

Oh, that's wonderful. Again, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure.

KEN [35:06]

I'm honored. Thanks for having me.


CAMILLE [35:09]

Hey, CEOs. Thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment and a 5-star review. You could have a chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram @callmeceopodcast. And remember, you are the boss.

Over the last 10 years, my life has been greatly blessed by being able to work as a stay-at-home mom to help us pay down debt and also have more financial independence to do things we like, like vacationing and having fun activities for the kids. A question I get asked a lot is, how can I too create my own at home business? And after racking my mind for quite a long time, I decided that a virtual assistant business is where it's at right now.

There are so many ways to be a successful virtual assistant and this is something that I wanted to help other moms be able to do. And that is why I created this 60 Days to VA program and it has been so wonderful to see these women who had no previous experience be able to create a business of their own with clients and success.

I have a recent graduate, Rachel, who says, "I can't believe how much I learned in only 7 weeks. When I started the course, I learned how to do administrative work that I found online, to have my own LLC, beautiful website, knowledge how to properly market myself on any platform, and the ability to use my different business programs. I feel so professional and confident to take on new clients. I would highly recommend this course to anyone who is thinking about joining. The live sessions with Camille and other experts are worth the investment alone. You will complete the course with all the tools and resources you need to be your own boss, make additional income for your family, and really feel content in the value you add to the business world."

I want this for all of you and I can tell you that this is the kind of confidence that will come to you as well when you take my virtual assistance course. If you are interested, go to camillewalker.co/VA. Again, that's camillewalker.co/VA.


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