HOW TO BUILD A BUSINESS PLAN | KATHY DALTON

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CAMILLE WALKER [0:02]

Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. This is Camille Walker and I am so excited about today's episode. We are talking to Kathy Dalton, who has been doing professional business consulting for 20 years. Kathy has been featured on Utah Business Magazine 40 Under 40, The Huffington Post, and New York Times. She has worked with brands like McDonald's, Coca Cola, Dawn dish soap, Fuel, Smith Optics, Rossingnol, Topgolf and is a contributor for the Ski Utah and Board of Director for Silicon Slopes.

Kathy is a mother of three, an incredible connector of people, and has helped many people over and over find connection with what it is they want to do and how they want to move forward with building their business. Today, she is going to take us into the steps of how to create a business plan of your own and move forward without fear.

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CAMILLE [0:57]

So, you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? Well, listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

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CAMILLE [1:17]

Welcome everyone to another episode of Call Me CEO. I am so excited about today's episode. We have Kathy Dalton here with us from radicaltransformation.org. She is a massive human connector and person who helps rally people to help find their inner voice and also create businesses of their own. Kathy, I'm so excited that you're here with us today. Thank you so much for being here.

KATHY DALTON [1:42]

Oh, thank you so much, Camille. It is just an honor to be here and to connect with your audience.

CAMILLE [1:48]

Well, thank you. Now, Kathy and I were just chatting before we started this call that we have known each other for nearly seven years. And it's been through we being in and out of stories, and different things that we've done with brands and other influencers, and things like that. But take me back, Kathy, to seven years ago where we met, and kind of where you were in that journey, and introduce us to you and what you do.

KATHY [2:14]

Well, thanks. Yeah. It's kind of fun to think back. I've known of who you are for a long time. Both Camille and I have had blogs for a really long time. I kind of feel like we were part of back when blogging was where we were trying to figure out kind of wild, wild west, and we were on Twitter, and that was like a big deal.

But I was working with a client at a book signing event and Camille was there. She showed up with a camera crew and was filming this client and it was just really fun to see you in action. I knew what you had been doing for a while, but it was really kind of fun to see the behind the scenes, what was going on.

And I was there at this book launch with a brand-new baby that I actually had in a stroller. He was just sleeping, tucked away. I'm going to say he was like just a couple of weeks old. And that was kind of a moment that it was fun to learn more about you, and to kind of see you in action, and how you held yourself, and just kind of at the beginning, I feel like when YouTube was really starting to become more popular. So, that was really fun.

CAMILLE [3:26]

Yeah. Well, gosh, I love hearing that story about you because I had no idea that you had a little baby tucked away. And that just goes to show the superpowers of mothers making it happen, right?

KATHY [3:38]

Absolutely.

CAMILLE [3:39]

That you were doing all of this. I had no clue.

KATHY [3:41]

And we kind of just do it, right?

CAMILLE [3:44]

Yeah.

KATHY [3:44]

Like we just kind of make what works, work, and I had a baby that wouldn't take a bottle. And it was a 40-minute drive and it was just like natural. It was like, "Oh, cool. You can come to your first event." And I think that's one of probably the most, in my opinion, underutilized and recognized demographics is moms, because we have this ability, not just to multitask, but really to kind of prioritize. And I feel like it just kind of comes naturally to be doing those things.

And also, a mother having a child is like having a business. Like you kind of go through this labor, well, even before then, like the conception process, and then kind of like incubation process, and then the labor, and then the actual end product. And so, I think it's fun to just think about business and the process that I've gone through.

I'm a serial entrepreneur. My background's in Communication Marketing. I worked in advertising to begin with, did a lot with product development, and then, kind of made a shift after our oldest was born. He was born six and a half weeks early, and he spent the first three weeks of his life in the NICU, and started blogging that time as a way to connect with family. Because there were some pretty serious things going on, but wanted to still bring everybody together in a way that we could share what was going on with him.

CAMILLE [5:23]

I didn't know that about your journey. Was he in the NICU for a long time? What was the situation?

KATHY [5:30]

He was born early and he spent about three weeks in the NICU. And then, I had two other kids. My second, they thought she was coming at 29 weeks and spent 10 weeks on bedrest with her. And then, with our youngest, they thought he was coming at 28 weeks, and again, another miracle, and spent another 10 weeks on bedrest. So, I'm good at that incubation process, I guess.

CAMILLE [5:59]

Wow. Yeah. That takes a lot of patience and multitasking. Like you said, I never thought about building a business the same way as developing a human. That's a really profound interesting thought. I'd never thought of it like that before.

KATHY [6:13]

I think there's an Emily Dickinson poem that she talks about her child as a book. Like you don't know that it's a book until it's the end and you're like, "Oh, she's really neat. She's talking about this kid and all this stuff." And you're like, "Oh, it's a book. That's what she was talking about."

And one of the things that I really just embrace, and have loved learning about, and continued to learn about is The Divine Feminine and The Divine Masculine, and how as women, we really are part of this creation process and we need creativity. We need to have those outlets for us to really be in our space. And I know that it's very true of me. I can kind of wear both hats. I can very much do the business side, but then I also need the creative side, and I need to have that as an outlet.

And something I know about myself is, I go through kind of like a three-year cycle where, I wouldn't say I'm changing myself, I think it's more just kind of that pivot, and that change, and that progression. One of my favorite Oprah Winfrey quotes is, and I'm probably going to say it wrong, but basically, is that "We can change our mind." And I think for so long, I was in a very fixed mindset and thought that I had to do things a certain way. For example, get good grades, go to college, get married, have kids, stay home, and found that in that, I really struggled. I really struggled leaving a corporate job that was fulfilling, but it was also social. There were people.

And it was at that time where I was really struggling that I started my first business. And what I loved about that transition moment is that I really went from this corporate, it was a fantastic job but it was still very competitive, to this space of, "Let's collaborate." I have no idea what I'm doing, but I was really good at asking questions and every time people would show up in my path that would know somebody or say something or whatever it was that allowed all of that to come together.

So, since that time, I've kind of just recognized that pattern in myself. And I feel like, we kind of talked a little bit about this the other day, just with COVID and the last nine months, for me it feels very much like this shedding of skin. And it feels like this opportunity as uncomfortable as it can be, is to really look at ourselves, look at our patterns, look at our habits, and make that transition and that transformation.

And that's really what has led me to be where I am now and have spent the last 20 years consulting in business, but have made those small ticks and shift, right? It's that sailing analogy where you want to stay on course, and you want to make sure you've got the wind in the sail, and that even if you shift just a teeny tick on that compass, it makes a big, big change, right? Like if you picture kind of like a piece of pie. There's that opportunity to do that just in our daily lives with those little shifts and those little transitions.

And it was about three years ago, of course, because of the number three keeps coming up for me, that both my husband and I went through a very big change in our lives, and we had the opportunity to look at a whole bunch of things, a whole bunch of old programming, and really to start working on ourselves. And it's a hard process when you start unpacking those things. And in that process, again, someone showed up in my life. Someone that had been a contributor on my blog, Kristin Sokol, and she was going through this professional coaching certification. And it was actually Christmas time, I wouldn't be surprised if it was to the day three years ago.

And she said something so profound that it was one of those moments where I Just knew there's something here. I need to learn more about this. And she shared about coaching, and she shared why she had gotten into it, and she shared that all of us are going through things. All of us have challenges on a daily, weekly basis that we don't know how to either process or how to move forward on, and so we get stuck. A lot of the time we'll tap those emotions inside us. I've spent probably almost 40 years stuffing a lot of those emotions down and not processing them. And for her sharing that and to hear her say with such conviction that we all need that space, and that coaching provides that space to talk through those things, and for the client really to come up with their own conclusions. And that's what I've been really passionate about, is going from consulting where we're kind of the ones that come up with the big ideas, and bring everybody together, and then to go to coaching where it really is holding a sacred space for somebody and asking them the questions, and it really is their own inner knowing that comes up that allows them and helps them to come up with their own ideas. So, a year ago, I had life coaching, started the vocation process, and actually just got my certification in the mail yesterday.

CAMILLE [12:20]

Yay!

KATHY [12:20]

So, it's really fun to be in the space and to have known for a long time that in our own transformation, and in our own process, I wanted to create a place that could bring people together, that can be kind of that soft landing place where you don't quite know what to do, but also that community of people that are collected that can kind of create, and inspire, and help you to be better, right? Like the people that see that potential in you and really to help with each other out.

So, that's how I've gotten to where I am today. And during COVID, I felt really stuck. I knew that this is what I wanted to do. I really pictured it as a physical center. I actually pictured it like a beehive, like the honey comb cells almost, where you've got your cell in the middle, and then you've got these other cells around it where it would be like different practitioners, but the center cell is where all the bees are coming, and they're talking, and they're learning from each other. Picture like a webinar or a workshop space, a place where people can come in and do a panel, and there could be topics that we could talk about or yoga or a sound bath.

But with COVID, it really became a block because I really felt like community needed to be in person. It needed to be in my neighborhood with those people that I know. And so, for a long time, I was stuck. And then, I actually hired my teacher through my life certification process, and worked with her to overcome that block, and to work on what's holding me back, and what are other examples in my life of things that I've done that are similar. And that's kind of really led me to where I am today.

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CAMILLE [14:25]

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CAMILLE [15:02]

I was going to say, so I love that you're talking about transformation, that it's happening for you every three years, you're starting to notice a pattern about yourself, and how empowering that is to realize that coming to know ourselves is powerful, and that we really need to not be afraid of that and digging deep. And I really appreciate that you seek out professionals to help you to do that.

I think that's really inspiring because I think a lot of the times as women, we try to handle it all and we try to figure it all out on our own and we try to solve other people's problems. So, what was it for you that took you from a space of consulting others yourself to then being able to open up to professionals around you and helping you to frame your own idea of what you wanted for your business?

KATHY [15:50]

That's a really great question. I think it's a really simple thing of realizing that people have gifts that I don't have, and that they can use their gifts to just help my life be even better. So, I guess it's receiving and being open to receiving what somebody else has to give, especially as women, I think that's a really hard thing for us, especially the way we're socialized, the way we can always give.

We can always give but receiving is a lot harder, so I think it takes really having that desire to change, but also knowing that you don't have to know it all. And that time and time again, I have found that when I don't just keep an idea or project to myself that when we can bring other people in, it's going to make it exponentially better than if it is just me trying to go off and do something.

CAMILLE [17:02]

Yes. I can attest to that 100% because my experience with putting together this podcast is the more that I've talked about it and shared with my vision, I have found it's been like a magnet. And I really believe in that law of attraction that if you open your mouth, if you write it down, if you share it with people, the universe will work together for your good, especially if it's something that you're trying to do that is good and is empowering to others and is serving others.

And so, that's something that I find you are exceptionally good at is helping to coach others in finding their own way and their business path. And we've talked about how you build a business plan, and I want to get into that with you, and I'm curious. What questions you would ask and how you would formulate that to help people find that path for themselves?

KATHY [17:50]

That�s great. I have just shared that I'm in the middle of this path and it was actually through me sharing my story with you of what I was working on that it kind of helped to breathe that life into it. And it's scary when we share what we're working on, but it's also really exciting when there is that life and that energy behind it. So, kind of the process that has worked for me is, it's kind of maybe two steps but four actually writing a plan.

And the biggest thing is to physically and to mentally create space. So, one thing that I found when I know there's something really big that I want to create and it often feels terrifying, it kind of starts to churn and you kind of start rumbling with it, is to really create space. One thing that I've learned over the last 20 years is that you can do anything, you just can't do everything. And when we get to that point where we know we're not giving it as much attention, whatever it is, that's usually a sign that we�re doing too much. And taking that step back and really looking at, "How am I spending my time?" Because that's what we have. We have time. We have our time and we have our talents. And we cannot just jam more things in and think that it will all kind of work out. I mean, there are some times that we just got to juggle all the things, but really, for something new and big, it really means making a conscious shift.

So, making that conscious shift for me, I knew that I wanted to be done with consulting when I was close to getting my certification. I was supposed to be done in September and really had tried to be very clear on my boundaries of, "I'm not taking on any new consulting projects." But then, with COVID, things got weird. And then, I ended up taking on a new client. And then, it just wasn't congruent with what I wanted to be doing. And so, I kind of started to resent the client and resent the work. And so, I needed to kind of divorce that side of things for me because as much as I was trying to schedule time to work on new things, it kept kind of taking that priority over things and that's not where I wanted to be.

So, for me, it's taken really shifting that and having that space. Now, that space also includes your physical space like I will clean out all my files, and I'll junk stuff, and I'll purge stuff and create a space. Like in my office, I even got a rug, so that I can feel more grounded. So, some of those things in the environment, in your physical environment and also in your mental environment, such as meditation or prayer are all things that really can help kind of get to that place.

And then, I do a whole bunch of research when I do anything. And I've moved all my stuff, but I've got file folders full of ideas of what I want it to be. And so, I kind of let it rumble or percolate and just start gathering the things knowing that I don't have to make a decision. I can write it on a Post-it note. I can slip it in a file folder. I don't have to know what it is. And giving myself that chance and kind of like that maybe patience almost like just, what's the word? Compassion on ourselves to say, "I don't have to know this. I know that this is what I'm being called to do right now, but I don't have to know how all the pieces fit together."

And then, when I do set time aside, I was setting aside an hour every day to work on things. I would really just take a moment to, oftentimes it was breathing, just having silence for 10 minutes. And if that did come up then, then I could start writing down some thoughts, but really asking a prayer or calling to the universe to say, "This is what I'm working on", really helped me to serve the higher good. And I feel that when we can be in that mindset, and be in tune with things that are around us, and really act on those things, that's really when the magic and the inspiration happen.

So, for me, it's a process of creating that space, but it's also a process of researching, and then it's a process of kind of setting that intention and wanting, for me, to serve whatever the higher good looks like.

CAMILLE [23:07]

So, for step one, you're saying clear your mental space and your physical space and really create time and space for those new thoughts to settle and percolate as you say.

KATHY [23:18]

Yeah. And then, really, that second step is researching, thinking, "What are other places that look like this? What are other transformation places doing? What are they doing online?" And then, when you do get to that place where, for me, that's a super fun part of that creation, is setting that time aside to only focus on that. And I'll schedule it a month out, so I know I don't become a victim of my own scheduling when I can't find the time to do that.

Now, for me, that's meant getting up a lot earlier in my day and getting in all the things that include exercise and meditation, so that when I do show up ready to work that I'm in a place that's just a much higher vibration and is much more excited to do that instead of feeling the overwhelmed. And it's easy to get caught in the overwhelmed and have things be derailed. But scheduling it out is just really great.

And then, really, for me, I could spend days writing business plans. I get so geeked out about writing business plans because for me, it's just really magical moment where you take all of these ideas and you start to put them down from kind of like this concept and idea to something that's real and tangible. So, for me, this is what I've been working on that I sat down, and was able to type up seven pages of this idea for radical transformation, and what it could look like. Did it come to me in like half an hour? Yeah. It came crazy fast, but there was all of this preparation that had happened before.

And for me, where I was blocked, was that place where I couldn't take that step forward into this new idea because I was still kind of straddling and working on this consulting stuff instead of the coaching side of things. So, as soon as I was able to say, "Hey. I'm done with this and I need to move on." Then, I was able to get those downloads and work on the plan.

CAMILLE [25:37]

So, just to give our audience a background of the consulting that you're referring to, tell us a little bit about the consulting work you have been doing and how that gives you so much knowledge and understanding of how to write a business plan.

KATHY [25:52]

So, primarily, over the last maybe 12, 13 years, I love to connect people. That is my superpower. I love to find specifically influencers and brands. So, I love to bring together, come up with big, crazy ideas, and say, "Hey! What if we did this?" And have worked, primarily, it was with brands for a really long time. And then, with a handful of influencers here and there that I've really loved and enjoyed doing that. So, I have a really great ability to see really big pictures and how to bring things together.

So, let's say as an influencer, you were wanting to do something for New Year's or for Valentine's Day, then I would brainstorm with you to come up with media challenge or concepts to go along with that or brands that we could bring in and how to make it something bigger than maybe just again, if one person is thinking about it like, "How do we make this bigger? How do we bring in other elements and who do we know? How can we make this really fun or what are we missing?" So, yeah, that's consulting in a nutshell.

CAMILLE [27:18]

Yeah. I love it. And what I'm curious about is when you're doing the consulting and/or creating a business plan, is there a system that you used to help you walk through that? And can you walk us through that process so we can do that on our own?

KATHY [27:33]

Yeah. So, what I learned a long, long time ago, and I don't even remember where I learned it, but it's MOST. M O S T. And this can be used in, let's say you want to pitch a sponsor for something or for a project, it really is pretty much the same thing. And by having a system in place, it also kind of allows your mind to naturally know like, "What are the next steps and what do I do with that?" So, I've seen a million business plans. I've written like a 72 page one before, not to brag, but it was really detailed.

CAMILLE [28:08]

Yeah. That's intense.

KATHY [26:08]

There's a lot. And the last few years, I've gone to a one or two page one, just because it doesn't have to be all the things. Simply, I think by having it exist, it feels like it's more professional. It feels like it's not just an idea in my head. So, there's a whole bunch of ways to do it. And sometimes, very often, I'll change it up and change it around because it's something big. Like radical transformation, that's a big idea and there's a lot of components to it. But really, it starts with M, for your Mission. Your mission, your vision, what do you see this as being? And the quote that I actually put on mine is by Steve Jobs. He says, "The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world are the ones who do."

CAMILLE [28:59]

I love that.

KATHY [29:00]

And I kind of put that in there as like my little-

CAMILLE [29:06]

Mantra? Yeah.

KATHY [29:07]

Little mantra. Sort of like, "This may feel crazy, but let's just visualize what that's going to look like." And for me, the most beautiful vision that I could imagine is to create a community center that's a place for connection, cultivation, care and creativity. I think when we can really get clear on what that looks like, that really is going to help us have that motivation to move forward.

And I love to mind map, so I'll just take a piece of paper, and then in the middle of the paper, write whatever it is and kind of start brainstorming around what can all of that be. And then, how does that tie together? Like for me, a website, you think it would be a pretty simple thing. It's got a landing page, but for me, what was different this time is to have like a membership side to stuff, and I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know how to do an online shop. So, those things felt scary, but seeing it on a piece of paper, and then breaking it down really kind of helped me to realize it's not that different than putting together a blog and learning WordPress.

The O in MOST stands for Objective. So, that's really where I like to get into some of the goals. In this plan, I put kind of back with mission, I also did values and some of the branding and demographic. But in the objectives, I put the budget, and just what are some of the costs that are associated with that.

And then, the Strategy part is the S. And that's where in a consulting pitch, there's where we talk about probably word of mouth and on and offline influence. For this business, it's creating community and what does it feel like? What does it look like and what are some people even that could be a part of that? That should be included in some of those roles and responsibilities. And what are other elements you want to include? Is there going to be blog posts or are you wanting to do a podcast? Are there YouTube videos? That's also a good place to put that down.

And then, the T stands for Tactics. And for me, this is where it feels like you can just take those little chunks one at a time. Like for me, getting a website up, and figuring out hosting, and shopping cart, and member portal, that felt so big, but as soon as I put them to paper, and I could just have those little incremental wins like they talk about in "Atomic Habits." Have you read that book?

CAMILLE [32:15]

Yes. I love it.

KATHY [32:17]

And just feeling like, "Oh, these are little things that I can do. I don't need to figure out a whole new member portal right now." And not have to go through that rabbit hole like let's just figure out somewhere to host the URL, right? Like really simple incremental things. But then, it's also fun in this space to get a little bit more detailed, and also to do some research. What are some other member sites? And just start having a place where you can put that information. Does that make sense?

CAMILLE [32:50]

Yeah. Yeah. I like that you talk about the little incremental wins because in "Atomic Habits", and I'll link the book below, it talks a lot about the momentum of having a win and how when you create wins for yourself, it's a much better way to propel ourselves forward when we're trying to achieve that end goal. And so, coming up with a business idea, whether that be an invention that you have, a website, a brick-and-mortar store, all of that starts at the very beginning and it needs to be pieced out like this. And that's why I love so much about this business plan is that it really takes it from the elephant down to just one bite at a time. So, I think that that is so important.

KATHY [33:35]

And then, it's also one of the skills that I learned in coaching is the question, who in your life can support you with this? So, going to this list of all these tactics like building website, finding, hosting, and just simply asking yourself, "Well, who in my life would know this?" And what's so beautiful is that when we ask ourselves a question, all of a sudden, things start coming up. Like we start answering that and we have that knowledge within us, and that's a really great process to go through to feel supported, but also feel like, "Oh, I don't have to know all this", like we started talking about.

CAMILLE [34:15]

Yeah. Thank goodness. I feel like for myself, it wasn't until just last week that I started writing down the team members that I have as part of my blog and my podcast, and including myself, I have 20 people that are involved with my team.

KATHY [34:32]

That is awesome.

CAMILLE [34:32]

And I have no idea that that was how many people were involved and they're not a day-to-day basis. Some of them are consultants, while some others are contracted employees, so to speak. And others are interns. And so, it's this machine where I certainly can't do it all, but it's through accessing and asking for that help that I've been able to create my business. And so, I love that you say that about just asking and going down that path, so that really, you don't need to know it all. It's really about that collaborative effort and creating opportunity for other people too.

KATHY [35:08]

And that's why I love sites like Fiverr and Upwork because they can do the things that you don't know how to do. Like when I started a podcast, however long ago, two years ago, I didn't know how to edit the podcast. And that was a big block until somebody mentioned, "Well, have you looked at Fiverr?" And I was like, "What? No. I didn't know you could do that." And then, it just frees up my time. I've had a virtual assistant over the years, and to have someone that is 13 hours ahead of me, when I go to bed at night, I can assign a project, usually it's some kind of spreadsheet that I need ASAP. And then, I wake up in the morning and she has it for me.

CAMILLE [35:51]

And it's done. Yes.

KATHY [35:51]

It's the most incredible thing to have those people that are a part of your team, and a part of your process, and are really helping to put those things together, so that it is not just you that's having to figure it all out, right?

CAMILLE [36:07]

Yeah.

KATHY [36:07]

Which I think in entrepreneurship, there is kind of that mindset of like, "You got to hustle hard and you got to work hard." But let's collaborate more. Let's get smarter and let's ask for help.

CAMILLE [36:20]

Yes. I love that you said that. And tell me a little bit about how motherhood plays a role into this business that you've built. And through the years, how you have been able to manage that? You touched a little bit on your morning routine, which I found out recently that you're a big fan of Miracle Morning, which I have read and I loved and I'm trying to adopt it into my own practice. But tell me more about that balance and how you sort that all out with family and work?

KATHY [36:46]

Well, I think the biggest motivation in my life is to be the best that I can be. Be the best version of myself for my kids. And that has meant doing a lot of my own work and changing a lot of programming and the way I was thinking about a whole lot of things because I want to parent different, I want to be a wife different than how I used to be. And they are really great motivation.

I do keep my business hours from 9 to 3 and I don't work weekends. That has meant over the years saying no to clients, but I've also had to learn it the hard. I have had to learn it by working weekends and working late hours into the night, where in turn it took away from the flow and the kind of spirit that was in our home and kind of made it more stressful than it needed to be. So, having really clear boundaries on what that is, and I'm not perfect at it by any means.

But in always, I feel like, being an entrepreneur and having an idea, our kids have seen that. And our oldest, he's now in 7th grade. When he was in 4th grade, he started a pencil business and it was just really fun to encourage them and to have them see what we do. So, they're always coming up with ideas. They're always very creative and I think that kind of learning and that kind of experience is something that's so different that they're not going to get at school. They might get in college, but for them to have their own hands-on experience, and to learn how to create, and take an idea from concept to consumer is really fun to watch. Our daughter, she's almost 10 now, and created a tic-tac-toe that you could take with you with dry erase markers.

And it's just really fun to see them be inspired, but also to teach them how to see and recognize those things. I mean, that would be my biggest hope as a parent is to teach them how to really trust their gut, and really trust when those ideas do come, and then teach them, and give them the tools on, "Well, how do we put all this together? And how do create a business plan? How do we create a social media account? Whatever it is. How do we find wholesale sourcing, or whatever it is we need?" But they too can figure out that it's not this big huge piece, that we can break it down, and that you can figure it out.

CAMILLE [39:40]

Well, I think that you touched on a lot of incredible tips here, and I'm curious. What do you think would be your number one advice for someone who is wanting to start a business with consulting and all of the experiences you've had, and if they get hung up on the idea or the minutia of the whats and the hows. What advice would you give to this person who needs to get past that and trusting their own gut?

KATHY [40:09]

Well, one, here's your permission to trust your gut. Trust your gut. And two, I strongly believe in hiring either a business coach or a life coach that can help you see things from that third party, unbiased perspective that really is going to help you to move forward. And I think when we give ourselves that time and that space, then we can create just really magnificent things.

CAMILLE [40:42]

Oh, that's awesome. Well, I'm excited for your coaching, then, to see how that grows. Let us know how we can connect with you.

KATHY [40:51]

So, you can go to radicaltransformation.org and we're on Instagram at radical_transformation, but it's radical_transformation. It might be radicaltransformation. I'm sorry. I'll have to check.

CAMILLE [41:06]

It's okay. We will make sure that we link the right one. We will link the right one in the Notes below.

KATHY [41:11]

That's so funny.

CAMILLE [41:12]

No. That's perfect. I think that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for spending that time with us today, and I admire you so much, and I love that you are a champion for women and that you are doing incredible things, so thank you so much.

KATHY [41:25]

Oh, thank you, Camille. Such an honor and just appreciate sharing how we can all support and collaborate and work together, but also how we can do really great things.

CAMILLE [41:37]

Yes.

KATHY [41:38]

Thank you.

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CAMILLE [41:40]

Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode of Call Me CEO. If you found it helpful or inspiring, I would love it if you shared it with a friend and also, I would love it if you came and joined me on Instagram at callmeceopodcast where you can join other likeminded mommas like you who are looking to step up in their lives and make it even better. Thank you so much and I will see you next week.

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