163: Creating a Successful Life with Dr. Julie Hanks

JULIE HANKS [00:00]

There's no right way to be a woman. There's no right way. And we're told everywhere that there's a right way.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE WALKER [00:15]

So, you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

[MUSIC]

Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. This is Camille Walker, your host. And here on this podcast, we celebrate women doing incredible things and sharing how they've built a business they love all while building a balance with their family that they love even more.

So, I could think of no greater guest than to have Dr. Julie Hanks. She is a professional therapist. She has over 30 years of experience and is also the CEO and owner of Wasatch Family Therapy. So, Julie, it is such an honor to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for coming.

JULIE [01:07]

Thanks for the invitation, Camille.

CAMILLE [01:10]

Yeah. We actually got to have some time driving around in your awesome convertible in St. George. I don't think I'll ever forget that. That was such a good time.

JULIE [01:18]

It was. It was fun to get to know you.

CAMILLE [01:20]

Yeah. I really love that. And I've watched and followed things that you've shared online for years. I think that you have such an elegant way of tackling really difficult subjects and doing it with grace and really being able to show both sides of something without having to be so one-sided, which I think is a good thing. Not a lot of people can do that. Of course. Yeah.

JULIE [01:45]

Yeah. Thank you. That's a compliment.

CAMILLE [01:49]

That's why you're so good at what you do. Let's be honest. I'd love to have you share with the audience what got you into the field of therapy and how did you build this incredible therapy unit that you have more than one location now? I just can't wait to hear all about that. And you can introduce your family too because that's a big part of what we talk about here.

JULIE [02:08]

Yeah, okay. So, I'll start with my family. I've been married 34 years. I have four kids and a daughter-in-law, son-in-law, and three grandkids. So, great little family that keeps growing, which is fun.

And I first got interested in psychology in high school. But even before that, I was just fascinated by people and relationships and dynamics. And I'm from a big family. And so, I was like, how can we all be so different where we have the same parents? And just I was aware of things like that as a pretty young kid. And then, I went to therapy as a client in my middle teen years. And it was really lifechanging. And so, that put in my brain maybe that's what you want to do is help people heal and become healthier emotionally and mentally. And so, that was in there.

I was also doing music and writing songs in my teenage years. And so, I was like I don't know which way I should go. And so, I ended up doing music professionally while I was in school studying psychology and then my master's in social work. So, I did both and got married and had two kids during that time too.

So, I think my main talent is moving multiple areas of life forward at the same time. I think that's what my talent is because I've always had a lot of things going on. But that's how I roll. Yeah, so I graduated in the mid-90s. And I worked for another practice for seven years and got supervision and training and just really made sure that I was doing a really good job.

And then, when my third child was born, two weeks after I think I filed my LLC for my own therapy practice, Wasatch Family Therapy. And I named it that because I wanted it to sound bigger than Julie Hanks Therapy. But it was just me in an office. So, it wasn't like some big clinic, but that was my vision is over time to grow it.

And so, since then, it's been 21 years ago that I started my practice. And it's just organically grown over time. And now, I have four locations, three in Utah and one in Arizona and 35 clinicians. And it's just been a really great learning experience mostly because I don't have a business background. I don't. I run it like a therapist, like very relational-oriented and making sure that people are thriving and have a really good work-life harmony.

CAMILLE [05:18]

It's fascinating. I think that if all businesses ran that way, wouldn't they be so much healthier? Imagine.

JULIE [05:23]

I think so.

CAMILLE [05:25]

Yeah. My husband, he actually runs a law firm at the business side of it. And we were talking about how there are a lot of professionals that don't have business training, for example, dentists or lawyers or different businesses like that. And I think that is so fascinating because, of course, why not? And I think all businesses should have therapy training. Because for him especially and we've learned this more than ever is that people, if they're not happy and not feeling a balance of their own in their life and business, then it falls apart.

So, he's had to learn a lot more about managing people and the process of how to make people communicate better and to find their own group. So, that's really interesting to me about that. What is it that you think as a therapist running a business you've learned? Because I think that question, that could be a whole thing. I'm like, yeah, that's fascinating to me.

JULIE [06:25]

Yeah. So, my philosophy is I care more about the people who work for me than I do about their productivity, which is totally backwards if you talk to a business.

CAMILLE [06:36]

Totally opposite of what a business would say. They'd say, what's the ROI?

JULIE [06:39]

Right. Yeah, I know. I know. And that has worked for me because it's created a very nurturing, fun, healthy environment. And it's relationship-oriented. So, I want people to feel happy and secure when they come to work. I don't want them always thinking, I'm going to get fired or I'm going to get in trouble.

I basically try to create a securely attached environment. So, we grew up with attachment styles in our early family life. And one of the styles is secure. And then, there are two different or three different kinds of insecure attachments. So, my job is basically to create a healthy work family for everyone.

And what that looks like is direct communication, a balance of autonomy and support. It looks like caring about the person, people being able to bring their whole self to work, and not just have to put on a face. It looks like doing things to nurture. And when we have staff meetings, we cater lunches and I provide drinks and snacks regularly and just it's a place where you can get more than just a paycheck. You get support, emotional support. You get food. You get recognition for when you are excelling.

So, yeah, basically, I'm like the mom parent. And I'm trying to create a healthy work family that works together where people are thriving. And I really do care more about the people than I do about their productivity. And what I found is that they're inspired and they stay longer. And they do a good job, which is we're a service business. And so, the quality of care is really what matters. And if they're happy, they're better therapists.

CAMILLE [08:55]

So, I love that you said that about if they're happy, they're good and they will perform better. I'm curious because you have so many remote pieces of your business people at different locations. How do you give them recognition and that support when you have a remote team? Because I have that. And I know a lot of people listening probably have that, too. How do you create that family support feel and recognition and all the things when you're not physically together?

JULIE [09:25]

Yeah. So, at every location, there's a director, so they're the person in charge of that environment. And so, I train the directors and they are making sure that things are going smoothly at each location. And then, we meet together twice a month with the whole team. And so, we have virtually people join in.

But even if they're virtual, we DoorDash food. We make sure that they are included. Every meeting, we do shoutouts, who did an exceptional job or what did you notice that someone did well, the good news, what's going on in your life that we can celebrate with you.

Then me and the administrative director, the clinical director and the director of child and adolescent services, we take turns going to the different locations. And so, we'll go remote for every fourth meeting or that kind of thing in another location, so we get some FaceTime with the other teams.

CAMILLE [10:34]

That's awesome. Now, those of you who are listening may or may not know that Dr. Julie Hanks has her own podcast, which is fantastic.

JULIE [10:42]

Thank you.

CAMILLE [10:43]

You're welcome. And you have an amazing social media following, too. And you have such a way of connecting with people on a personal level where they want to open up to you and they want to discuss the hard things with you. And I'm curious what do you think you've done in your business both in social media and on your podcast that has given an environment where people feel safe in discussing those hard questions?

JULIE [10:48]

Yeah. I have had a social media presence since there was social media. So, I'm an early technology adopter. I act and feel like a digital native, but I'm not. I'm old. But I had one of the first therapy websites in Utah in the early 2000s. I joined Facebook right when it was open to people that weren't in college. And so, I've just been public and giving advice. And I've blogged thousands of blog posts.

So, I've spent the last couple of decades really trying to serve my community. And over time, that trust is built. And then, my social media really blew up when I started on Instagram on a regular basis doing Q&As and posting graphics and quotes and those kinds of things. And I think it's really about building trust.

So, when people meet me when I'm out and about, people will say, "Oh my gosh, you're just like you are online." And I'm like, that's the best compliment because that means I've been able to build trust with people that don't even know me in real life, but they feel like they do because it matches. So, building trust with an authentic self I think is a really important part of that.

CAMILLE [12:44]

Yeah. I would agree with that. And it's interesting because having been in this space for over a decade, too, that's one of the best compliments because you want people to feel like know you. And when they meet you, it's not this big surprise. It's like, I've listened to you or I know your voice. I feel like we're friends. And that's the best compliment ever to hear that.

One thing that I get that people ask or they'll say, "You're so tall. I thought you were short." Because my husband's 6'6. And so, I look very tiny next to him when I share pictures of us together. And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm just under 5'9, I'm pretty tall." Is there something that people meeting you, they are surprised.

JULIE [13:31]

Yes. "You're so short."

CAMILLE [13:33]

The opposite.

JULIE [13:34]

I'm 5'2. So, everybody's like, "I just pictured you taller." I'm like, "Yeah, I know I have a big presence. But I'm 5'2."

CAMILLE [13:43]

Yes. So, the opposite. That's funny how people just pick in their mind what they think you might look like. One thing that I don't think would be a surprise is, again, how open and authentic you are. And it was so much fun to spend time with you in a personal way. We were at a retreat together. And you have such a fantastic magnetic way of opening up conversations to groups, too, which was something that everyone sat around in the hot tub, and they're like, "Deep questions with Dr. Julie Hanks." It just was this private session. It was really fun.

I'm curious because I have a lot of women that listen to this podcast who are building businesses, they can be very overwhelmed. They're wearing all of the hats. What is a common question that you think perhaps we can have you answer here about how to balance motherhood and business and not lose sense of self? Because that's a topic that comes up over and over again. I'm curious, how would you answer that?

JULIE [14:44]

Okay. There are lots of different directions. So, what I hear frequently from women who are trying to do many things is what's wrong with me? Why can't I manage my time better? Why can't I handle all of this? Why am I so overwhelmed?

And I always say, it's not you. The world is not built to support you like it is your male counterpart. And so, it's a system problem where women are expected to do the bulk of unpaid labor in households. That's the problem. There's nothing wrong with you or your time management or your ability to handle hard things. It's that you're doing the job of multiple people.

So, you either need to offload some of your responsibilities to your partner, if you have one. Hire more help. Let go of expectations of yourself. So, those are probably the three main things. So that's my main thing I want women to know is there's nothing wrong with you. You're doing a lot of really hard things. So, you need more support.

I had a time when I had started my practice. And my music career was going really well. My practice was starting to grow. My family was growing. And I was so overwhelmed. So overwhelmed. I had three, maybe four kids at that time and two careers and a very supportive husband. It wasn't like he was just this slacker. And I thought, what is wrong with me? Why am I so overwhelmed? Why can't I handle this? I feel like a failure.

And then, the thought occurred to me, what would a man do if he was feeling overwhelmed. You know what? He would go, I am awesome. Every part of my life is growing so much that it's too much for one person, I need to hire some help. Look, I'm awesome. Look how great I am.

Whereas a woman, I was thinking it was me. And so, I hired a home assistant. I hired an office manager. I was running the office of my practice. And I just thought, you know what? I need more support. I'm going to build that in. My husband and I have continually had talks about, "Okay, I feel like it's out of balance this way." Or he'll say, "I feel like it's out of balance this way."

And so, women are under supported. That's the problem. You're expected to do all this unpaid work. Plus, you're trying to do paid work, where that's not the case with male counterparts. They're not expected to do all the unpaid work. And so, no wonder women are overwhelmed when they're trying to build a business and a family.

So, part of that is giving your kids more responsibility and your partner, having them take on, not, "Let me know what to do to help." No, what are you responsible for that I never have to talk to you about it again?

CAMILLE [18:17]

Yes. That's such a real way of putting it, though. Because I feel like a default can be, "If you need help, I'm here to help you. What is it?"

JULIE [18:26]

"I'll do whatever." And even the word "help," no, it's our house. It's not helping me. It's taking care of your house. It's taking care of your kids. It's feeding your family. It's like those are not women things. It's grown-up things.

CAMILLE [18:47]

There is a language barrier, especially in I feel like maybe cultures or traditions or places that are more traditional by nature perhaps, where it does default to the woman for the house, the food, the care, nurturing of the children. What is a good way for us to replace the word "help" in the way we communicate?

JULIE [19:10]

Contribute. I need you to contribute more. And then, what are you willing to take on full responsibility? Like I said, so I never have to mention it again.

CAMILLE [19:24]

Those are powerful words. I like it.

JULIE [19:28]

And have it be like, take on the laundry, take on food. So, my husband's in charge of food. So, that's one of his things. And he does the grocery shopping. And he plans the Sunday dinners and makes sure he goes to Costco on Saturday. And that's one of his domains. And so, he does food and finances are two of his. I do kids' scheduling is a big one of mine and school, overseeing school things. And we hire out cleaning at this point, which is nice.

But I know you can't always hire out when you're starting a business. But you can barter. You can trade. You can say, "You know what? I'll consult with you on this, if you will come and clean my house or I'll watch your kids Mondays and Fridays, if you'll watch mine Tuesdays and Thursdays." You have to get creative when you don't have the money coming in yet for your business. But there are ways to do it. There are ways to do it. We have to get creative and require a lot more of the people in our lives than we're currently requiring.

CAMILLE [20:38]

Yeah. I think that that is so key, that communication aspect with talking with your partner, your children, bringing extra help in. That's why I help entrepreneurs hire virtual assistants. If you need that help, I'm here for you. Because like you said, it's that structure of support that we look around and think I'm ready to give up on this because it's beginning to be too much that I need to do something else or I'm done.

I have some systems and ways I like to do things with communicating with my children and my spouse. I'm curious what you do or have done or counseled other people to do with distributing responsibilities in the home with children.

JULIE [21:22]

Yeah. So, my kids, I just am at the tail end. So, I have one still at home.

CAMILLE [21:27]

We'll say rewind the clock because we're all at different stages and phases. And I think that's part of it, too, is reevaluating, but yeah.

JULIE [21:34]

Yeah. So, my kids at about age six get assigned a couple of jobs. And those never change until they leave the house. I hate chore charts. I do not want to track things. People are like, they will learn how to do it. I'm like, there's YouTube. If you don't know how to scrub a toilet because that wasn't your job, YouTube it. You can learn how to do stuff once you get out of the house.

CAMILLE [22:01]

So, give us some examples of jobs that would stay the same because it's funny you say that because right now, I have a 9-year-old and he's on dishes. He does all the unloading. Usually, my kids don't like to put dishes in the dishwasher. But they all put their own dish away every time we eat. Where another kid is mowing the lawn and another kid is doing other things like their own laundry or whatever. So, what are some examples of that?

JULIE [22:26]

Yeah. So, doing their own laundry, usually that's more about 8 to 10 when they start doing that. Trash, you're in charge of the trashes in the house. If they're overflowing, it's your problem. That's yours. So, dishes, cleaning their room and the bathroom. But whatever it is, it doesn't change. That's the key. Because then, there's not like it's not my job. It's not my turn. It's her turn. I don't want to spend any energy on that. No, it's you. It's always you. And there's no questions.

CAMILLE [23:04]

Another way I've heard of doing this and I have done in the past is zones that they have the zone of the house that's theirs that doesn't change. In my experience, usually we change things between summertime and school time, just because you're working with a different set of rules and time of the day. But I like that pick it and stick with it even for a year. I've never heard of anyone doing it their whole lives. That's pretty amazing.

JULIE [23:30]

It's their whole life. So, that's worked for us. Another tip that has worked is we have a list on the fridge. And if you want anything from the grocery store, it needs to be on the list. If it's not on the list, we don't buy it. So, you can't go to the grocery store and be like, "I don't want this. I don't like this." It's like if you think of it ahead of time, then we can get it. But if you don't, it's not. So, we don't do impulse buying at the grocery store. And then, they're responsible.

CAMILLE [24:02]

And thank goodness for grocery delivery. Oh my gosh, that is a game changer. I feel like I got right on the tail end of that. I still had to take my little tinies. And nowm they're bigger. I rarely go into grocery stores anymore because I don't want to deal with any of that. That's such a gift.

JULIE [24:20]

Yeah, totally. So, use lists. We did a whiteboard calendar for all the scheduling and those kinds of things. There's better technology now for those things. But my husband and I have had an ongoing conversation pretty much since the day we got married and prompted by me.

And unfortunately, women are having to do a lot of the work to shift this because we're the ones overwhelmed and in pain. And they're like, this is great. The world's set up to support me. And I can have work and family. Of course, they have different stresses, right? But they don't have the expectation of two full-time jobs.

So, women have entered the workforce a lot more readily than men have entered the home front in terms of taking on responsibility. You'll appreciate this. I posted a reel talking about how my whole life because my husband's always been engaged because I toured with my music, so I was gone for the weekend. So, he does what needs to be done.

And our whole married life, I've heard, "You're so lucky, your husband helps you with the kids. You're so lucky your husband helps you with the food or does the laundry for you." And I asked him, I said, "Has anyone ever said you're so lucky your wife helps you make money?" And he said, "No, never." I said, "You always get to be the good guy. No matter what you do, you're the good guy. I'm always the bad guy. I'm leaving my kids to go to work or I'm neglecting my family." And then, I'm contributing financially to our family. And no one acknowledges that I'm helping him in his masculine role. And I say that facetiously because I don't believe in gender roles.

CAMILLE [26:15]

No, totally. I actually saw that reel.

JULIE [26:17]

Did you?

CAMILLE [26:18]

Yes. And I was like, that is so true. And it's been cool in our home. Recently, we were actually talking about a big goal my husband and I had was to pay off our house by the time he was 40. And we were talking about it with the kids just this week. And he said to the kids, "It's because your mom works so hard and made money, too, that we were able to reach that goal. If she hadn't have done that, we wouldn't have been able to do that." And I was like, "Thank you." Just even little moments of appreciation or acknowledging that, it means so much I think because we go along with it or at least I had, where I do it, but people don't really know. You know what I mean? Where it's just that getting that recognition.

JULIE [27:02]

Of course, you do.

CAMILLE [27:03]

Yeah, of course you do. Yeah.

JULIE [27:05]

Right. But it doesn't go the flip side. Of course, he's engaged with his kids. They're his kids. Why wouldn't he? Yeah. Look at that good dad taking the kid to the park. It's like no one says that about a mom taking the kid to a part.

CAMILLE [27:18]

Yes. There's been really fun social media things I've seen about that more often. And I'm thankful having three sons that it seems like that messaging is changing that involves dads and that it's a group effort and it's more egalitarian, if you will.

CAMILLE [27:37]

I tried explaining that to my husband once when we were first married. He knows the term well now. But I'm like, "Yeah, I'm more an egalitarian." And he's like, "What does that mean?" And what that is, is more of a shared load and less stereotypical, even though I did stay at home with my kids while I built a business. So, I think that that's cool that in some ways, we're seeing that more. But I do hope because I also see a lot of women afraid to have children that there are messages of it being so overwhelming or that there is such a demand. And I don't want that either.

So, I'm like, you can ask for support, you can have that fulfillment and still live a full life as a mother that enjoys motherhood, too. And that was primarily why I started this podcast was to share that message. And so, I love that you've done that so eloquently because it's bringing up different conversations and having us look at things through a different lens.

And one thing I wanted to ask you specifically about because I get a lot of questions about this on this side of the table is how do I get out of my own head of having the confidence that I can do both, that I can seek fulfillment for myself and still not lug around shame and guilt for even wanting that piece of me to be fulfilled?

JULIE [29:00]

Yeah, shame and guilt for wanting something outside of home and family. Okay. So, I coined this term "aspirational shame." And I wrote a blog post on it. And people are like, "Oh, my gosh, you named this thing." And I was like, I did?

CAMILLE [29:15]

That is so good. Yeah.

JULIE [29:17]

So, I'm just going off. I didn't know we're talking about this. So, I don't have the whole list. I named it for myself mostly, but other people, it resonated with. And then, I ended up doing some research on it. What is this experience that so many women have? And I came up with some themes in what it means to people, but I asked people, "Have you worked through it?" And I got some really good data about how women heal that part.

CAMILLE [29:35]

No, you're good. Yes. I just threw it at you.

JULIE [29:55]

Yeah. But one of them is really honing in on your purpose, so your individual purpose or purposes in life. And if you have faith aligning that, knowing God wants you to do what you're doing, so having that confidence inside of yourself.

The second one was having a supportive spouse, so someone who values your dreams as much as they value their own. Another one was finding like-minded women, having a support network of women who were in the same boat where you could talk about things. Another one was mentors, having people who are ahead of you and learning from them. There's a quote, you can't be what you can't see. And so, making sure you see what you want to create and you learn from other people who are a couple steps ahead of you.

Another one was therapy. A lot of women went to therapy to deal with their shame and guilt. So, that was one. Let's see. And I love this because I think it gets easier as you get older. Another thing was care less what people think of me.

CAMILLE [31:26]

I believe it. That conversation actually came up when we were at that retreat, too. There were a lot of young women there that were pursuing different careers in different ways. And sometimes it happens by accident that that happened to me. I had been working in a traditional 9 to 5 finance mortgage business situation. And then, when I came home and started the blog and realized this could be a career and I could be a mom.

I feel like the ability to do more it's the both sides of the coin, where it's like, in one way, I have friends who aren't doing a business. And they're like, I just want to be happy with what I'm doing, but I feel this pressure to do more. And then, on the other side, where people are like, I want to do more, but I don't know what to do or I feel guilty if I do do it. There's so many questions and different scenarios.

But I feel like you nailed it on the head there with the purpose piece where I really like to lean into my faith of knowing that there is a reason that God plants desires within us. And if it's a good desire and it comes from a good place that there's space for that and that we can grow into that. And isn't it cool that there are these ways we can connect online and support each other and love each other and the different communities and mentors?

And oh, man, you could unpack that forever. But those are also good. And therapy, check out Dr. Julie Hanks at the Wasatch Family Therapy for real, that's a whole thing because I feel like relationships with money and your mental blocks of what you're worthy of achieving. There are so many different scenarios with that, that I think could be dug into for sure.

JULIE [33:12]

Yeah, and unrealistic expectations. All these shoulds. I should be with my children 24/7 or I should be working on my business or I should be doing this or my house should look a certain way or I should be making this much money. There are all of these totally unrealistic expectations. I should be happy being a stay-at-home mom. I should be happy working part-time. There are all these shoulds.

And what if it's just you're unique, your life isn't going to look like anyone else's. There will be some similarities and some differences. And that's okay. And there's no should. You should parent the way that feels right to you. And you let go of the list of things to do to prove that you're a good mom or a good employee or a good entrepreneur.

CAMILLE [34:10]

You're singing my language. That's actually why I named my blog, My Mommy Style, because it's like do it your way. There's so many ways to do things and be happy and build a life that you love. And I feel like this is a really good thing to maybe tie a bow on is because all of us, I guarantee everyone listening right now is thinking they have a should, if not a list of 10. Aside from what you said that we're all unique, is there a practice or a mantra or a way that we can work through those shoulds with therapy, too, but let's say is there a good place to start a practice that we could do to help us work through shoulds?

JULIE [34:57]

In terms of motherhood?

CAMILLE [35:00]

Anything.

JULIE [35:00]

I'm going to start with motherhood. So, to frame motherhood as a relationship, not a role. It's about a connection with another human being. It's not about being this perfect caricature or a list of things you're supposed to do. Focusing on the relationship has freed so many women from the shoulds. Because when I say, "How's your relationship?" "It's really good." "Why are you so worried about like, I missed this field trip or I didn't go, beating yourself up because you missed a soccer game. They're fine. They know you love them. And why are you focused on the tasks instead of the relationship?" So, that's one thing that I have found really helpful.

CAMILLE [35:54]

Yeah, I like that.

JULIE [35:56]

And then, there's no right way to be a woman. There's no right way. And we're told everywhere that there's a right way. And so, letting go of am I right or wrong? Is this good or bad? Most things are just choices. They're not good or bad. Is this the right thing for me to be doing? No, it's just a choice. If it feels like the right thing, it's probably the right thing. So, go for it. So, getting out of that good, bad, right, wrong frame. It's like is this a choice that's creating the life that I want?

CAMILLE [36:43]

I like that. That's a good question to keep in mind. Because even when it's a choice, we're like, is that a good choice or is that a bad choice?

JULIE [36:51]

It's just a choice.

CAMILLE [36:52]

I like that. Is it creating the life that I want? Because at the end of the day, everyone would answer that a little bit differently. And so, it's up to you really. You have to decide and define what that is. Do you ever take the people that you have in therapy through helping them define their main core values? What's a process like that?

So, if someone was trying to define and make decisions, I know that that can be really difficult because there's so many factors, but identifying those core values, what is a good way for people to do that so that they really know that it's a decision for them and maybe not a decision that's implanted from what a parent would want or a grandparent or a friend group?

JULIE [37:36]

Yeah. So, I do a lot of values work. And the easiest thing is to just Google values list and circle your top five values on the list. And then, check yourself, okay, is my life lining up with my values? And values or aspirations, they're not behaviors, right? So, if generosity is a core value, there are lots of ways. You can donate money, you can donate your time, you can give your energy out to the world. There's just lots of different things you can do, your talents. And so, they're aspirations, they're not behaviors. And sometimes people confuse those two. So, I think that's an important distinction.

One thing I ask almost every single woman I've worked with is what did you like to do? What makes your heart sing as a child? Because that is the clue to some of the reasons why you're on the planet.

CAMILLE [38:42]

Yeah. I love that. And I think it's easy for us to forget, when we get into the role of caregiver and nurturer. And it's easy to lose connection with that carefree attraction to whatever that thing was or is that really lights you up. That's a really good way of asking it.

JULIE [39:01]

If you're not doing that, if you're not doing that thing, bring that back into your life. That's important. Sorry, I cut you off there.

CAMILLE [39:11]

No, you're good. Yeah. And I think that that's true. It's like, how do I incorporate that? And for me, it was I loved being around people, which surprise, I got in trouble for talking all the time, which I'm like, now, I'm a podcaster. See, we just use the talking to our benefit, but singing and dancing. I really connect with nature.

And those are things easily because I've done that practice a lot of what are those things that light me up that I need to incorporate into my life? And I think that that practice alone can bring so much happiness, if you're feeling lost in whatever to-dos that you have. It really is so impactful.

JULIE [39:46]

Yeah. And I will often think, am I modeling the kind of life that I want my daughters to grow up and live? Am I modeling being a martyr and giving up everything I care about, so you can do the things you love? And so, they have to grow up and let go of everything they care about. I don't want them to do that.

And so, I always think, what am I modeling, particularly for my sons about women, their view of women's potential? And for my daughters, am I modeling a life where they're excited to grow up? Instead of like, oh, man, that doesn't look very fun. I want them to be like, I can't wait to grow up. It's so fun. You get to do cool things.

CAMILLE [40:39]

Yeah. That's such a good way of looking at it. Because I have had people say questions about seeing their moms work. But if I'm working, that will be really hard for my kids. And I think in every generation of time, no matter if it's inside, outside, a combination of both, children have always been seeing their moms work hard. It's just in what ratio or in what way are they doing that?

When I think of mothers, I don't think of them as lazy people at all. They're doing and giving and serving and working. And I think that's really healthy and beautiful for children to see that. And what is the equation look like for you?

JULIE [41:18]

Yeah. Women have always worked and all women work. So, I'm right with you. If you're royalty and you have people waiting on you, but I don't know those people.

CAMILLE [41:35]

Me either. Yeah, that's a very small percent, which you have other problems that come along with a life like that, too. So, this has been so much fun. If you're not following along with Dr. Julie Hanks, you must. Just in all of the ways I think you're so brilliant and such a fantastic voice. And it's such a gift to a lot of young mothers figuring it out and middle of the road mothers and older mothers, too. I just think that you are amazing.

JULIE [42:03]

Thanks, Camille.

CAMILLE [42:04]

You're welcome.

JULIE [42:04]

Thanks for all the great work you do to support women. I think we're all on the same team, right?

CAMILLE [42:10]

Yeah, I agree. Please let our audience know where they can find you online and how they can connect with your different offerings.

JULIE [42:20]

Sure. So, @drjuliehanks on most social media platforms. www.drjuliehanks.com is where I have a group coaching membership that's totally affordable. So, it's just a really easy way to work with me. And you can find out more about that on my website. I also do individual coaching. And then, my therapy practice is www.wasatchfamilytherapy.com.

CAMILLE [42:46]

Fantastic. And for everyone who's listening, please go ahead and smash the follow button, if you will. Whether you're listening on Spotify, iTunes, or on podcast with Apple, you can do that. We're also now streaming all of our videos on YouTube as well. So, if you prefer to watch video, you can do that as well. And thank you so much for listening. And we will see you next week.

[MUSIC]

Thank you for listening to this week's episode. If you are in a place where you're feeling like you could use a little more support or you want to hire a virtual assistant, I help with strategy and helping you find the right people for your team. You can reach out to me at www.camillewalker.co. And you can also DM me @camillewalker.co on Instagram. So, I hope you all enjoyed this episode and you have a wonderful day. We'll see you next time.

Hey, CEOs, thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment and a 5-star review. You could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram @callmeceopodcast. And remember, you are the boss!

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