220: The Psychology of Money: Insights from Financial Therapy on Spending Habits, Lessons Learned, and Wealth Growth

Lindsey: 0:00

Taking your credit cards off your phone or your laptop is an easy micro barrier. That'll just again make it a little bit harder for you to buy the thing. If you want your ass, ass, to get up off that couch, it is. You're like, it's like poof, I don't even need it anymore.

Camille: 0:26

So you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO. This is Call Me CEO. Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. This is your host, Camille Walker, and today we are talking about being financially healthy, which sometimes can be a topic we might want to shy away from. But if there's one thing I've learned in entrepreneurship, it's if you don't know where your money is going, it's probably not going the way you want it to. Mindfulness around money is so important. And did you know there is such a thing as a financial therapist? Well, you're in luck today because we have one of the best. Lindsey Konchar is the financial self-care podcast host and she is also a financial therapist. So, Lindsey, thank you for being on the show today.

Lindsey: 1:27

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat.

Camille: 1:30

Yes, so mother of two, and you've been doing this financial therapy for a while, but I would love for you to share the story of how you got into being a financial therapist and how you found this path for yourself.

Lindsey: 1:43

Yeah. So really, I essentially found out I was pregnant February of 2020. We all know what happened the month later. Pandemic happened and at the time so I'm a licensed therapist I was working at a clinic, a outpatient clinic but at that time, like we didn't know what was happening, I was being furloughed, I was pregnant, like what could happen to the baby? We were still wiping groceries, the whole, you know, kit and caboodle, and so I really became a stay-at-home mom, before I was even a mother technically. But I knew really as soon as I, you know, found out I was pregnant, we, we did want me to be home and that was the direction I was hoping to go anyway, and so it just kind of happened a little earlier than we would have thought.

Lindsey: 2:29

But and so in my motherhood journey, I really baby came in October and I was like first month, total bliss, loved my life, and like literally 28 days after being a mom, it was like the postpartum anxiety, depression, rage, like hit me like a freight train and I was like who is this monster? Like I was just my fuse was super short, my husband and I weren't communicating well, and I really went through that for several months before I was even willing to tell anybody how bad it was. Like I was hardly sleeping, not because my baby was a wonderful sleeper, but I had such bad, intrusive thoughts, such terrible nightmares, like just just. It was hard, you know. And at that point, about nine months in, I was like I need to do something else and I really started learning things for myself again, trying to rediscover like who is this new woman in motherhood? And I knew I didn't want to go back full time to like working at a clinic or doing private practice though that wasn't really what I was hoping for and so I just started my entrepreneurial journey then and I ended up writing a book.

Lindsey: 3:45

It is. It's titled I got 99 coping skills and being a bitch ain't one Cause. I was a generalist therapist for a long time and I loved it. It was such a fun, exciting project. But then the book was released and it was it's done very well, but I was like okay, but like now what you know, and in my journey, I pivoted along the way and I actually went to a self-development conference in October of 2022, when I was 34 weeks pregnant with my second baby, and I was just like I need direction on what I want to do and I very vividly remember at that time thinking I want to do something with finances. Backstory on that my husband and I had been on our own financial self-care journey for eight years and so I loved it.

Lindsey: 4:31

I love talking about money but I was like I'm a therapist, it just doesn't equate, it doesn't work. And then fast forward six months after that, in April of 2023, I was listening to an audio book and the woman muttered the words financial therapist and I instantly paused. The book went home. We came literally flying through the door of my husband, was like what's going on? I was like I am going to be a financial therapist, like I think this is for me, and so I Googled it, you know, did all the research, and it turns out because I'm a licensed therapist, I qualified for the certification and the rest is really history.

Lindsey: 5:06

I bought the program and became certified and shortly thereafter started taking clients and it's been incredible, because people really need that emotional support when we're talking about money. It's not so black and white. It's not so like well, this is income minus expenses equals like that. It's not how it works. Right. Every purchase we make is so emotional and I get to support people and getting their money on track and, you know, achieving their unique goals and all the things and it's wonderful.

Camille: 5:36

Oh, that's so awesome and I love that the storyline is little hints or little breadcrumbs of getting you to where you are now, to actually feeling that moment of like oh my gosh, this is it. And I feel like there are seasons of our lives where that can happen more than once, but that you're in a space where you're like, wow, that that training that I had is now I'm in place, that I can pick this up and do this. And it totally aligns, because had you not had a therapy background, you could have gotten there, but it would have taken you a bit longer. And I think that there is purpose in our movements where we don't even recognize it at the moment of the significance of what they are. Was your husband surprised when you said you wanted to be a financial therapist, or was he like, oh yeah, like this makes total sense.

Lindsey: 6:25

Instantly was like yeah, that makes total sense. Like I, you know, I listened to money podcasts. I read money books for fun, like it's something that I just truly enjoy so much learning about. And so he was like I, what is that? But like amazing, you know. So he was no, totally on board. He was like this sounds fantastic. Of course I was, as I was doing the coursework. Um, I would be like running upstairs telling him about it. And he's like I know that you love this, because you start talking a million miles an hour every single time you talk about it.

Lindsey: 6:57

Like you, just like I do, I kind of light up when I when I talk about it, because it felt for the for the very first time in a long time, it had really felt like this is what I was put here to do. Like it felt so aligned. It does feel so aligned with, with what I hope to bring to the world and so, yeah, it's a, it's awesome, that's very cool.

Camille: 7:17

And what I love about it too, is that, no matter what level of income or success you are on monetarily, emotion is tied to money and there are a lot of learned behaviors, or I've even done a podcast before where I interviewed someone on sharing money types or money personalities that people have, and it is so much deeper than the X minus Y or whatever you're doing in the equation. And I'm curious because this is a conversation my husband and I. He's a CPA accountant very, and I'm so grateful because he is very mindful of our expenses and there are even things with his behavior that I can see have trickled down from his upbringing and mine of mine too and so having communication open about that and being aware is such a big part of that piece, wouldn't you say?

Lindsey: 8:12

Oh, absolutely, I always, always start with my clients. We talk about, you know, first what's currently going on, like why, what's the presenting problem, if you will. And then we always move into money stories because, to your point, for so many people and this isn't everyone's story, but for so many people money was either talked about behind closed doors for their parents, but it was fought about. So you attach to like money equals bites or whatever, Like there's just. There's so many things. And then, because oftentimes personal finance wasn't a class that people took either in high school or in college, which is crazy.

Lindsey: 8:45

Yeah, totally crazy. Agreed, but because of that it's like we have, all of a sudden, you're like 22 years old and a full ass adult and there's no education around this, and now you're just expected to know how it goes. And then people spiral in this like shame cycle, guilt, embarrassment about not knowing their money Yet it was never taught to them in the home, it was never taught to them out in the world, and you're just supposed to like, snap your fingers and understand. And then you have people again being like, well, yeah, your income. And then you're like, but like how?

Lindsey: 9:17

and then you have, you know, the added layer of like social media and the complexities that come with being exposed to what other people have, and it's just, it's very, it's very messy, and so we need to kind of get through the mud in order to get to clearer, cleaner water of where you can actually live.

Camille: 9:34

Yeah, I think that's a really good point because it's not even so much the neighbor next door the grass is greener, it's literally thousands of neighbors next door where the noise of comparison is so loud, and also the attraction of shopping. You know that can be a fun distraction. I saw a tote bag yesterday that could hold a Stanley mug and your planner and your laptop and I showed it to my husband and I was like I think I might want this for Christmas and he looked at me with raised eyebrows and he was like you already have so many bags. Like what, do you want another bag? And that's the thing. I would have never thought of that product until it's in your face. It's literally all the time. So to be able to clear that noise.

Lindsey: 10:19

A hundred percent. I always say you're not just keeping up with the Joneses anymore, you're not just keeping up the Kardashians anymore, you are keeping up with everyone. And there's actually a psychological phenomenon called the mirror exposure effect, that you merely need to be exposed to something One, two, three, four, and the more times you're exposed to it, the more your brain is like okay, I like it, okay, I need it, okay, I'm buying it, like it's just and so when we're on our phones and constantly seeing this, stanley mugs is a fantastic example. Everyone has them. They're everywhere you go, whether you're out just like at target, or you know um on social media, and it's like you've now convinced yourself that you need this thing.

Lindsey: 10:59

And my job isn't to ever tell anybody what they should or should not want. If you want 85 Stanley mugs, fine, do your thing. But my job is to like get through some of that with you and to really turn into you and figure it out. What it is that you want, like what is going to move the needle forward. I can tell you right now for me, like I always give this example, but like I hate bucket hats. I think they're atrocious on people's heads, so I don't want bucket hats.

Lindsey: 11:27

Somehow the mere exposure effect has not taken hold of me on bucket hats. But what I will spend money on all day long is experiences with my kids and with my family, like I love it, and so it's. You just have to decide. Like some people are, like oh no, bucket hats have my heart, like that's what I want, and again I'm like, do you girl? Like if that's truly what's lighting you up? But that's where we need to decipher is like, where is this coming from? And as moms, we tend to overspend on our babies because we want to give them the world, and so there's a lot to unpack with moms, particularly in that realm.

Camille: 12:05

Oh my gosh, we could talk about this forever, because then I'm thinking about the sports they're involved with or the activities that they have and the swag that goes with the activities. There's so much pressure to have a certain look, even with experiences that the kids have or what they do, or oh my goodness, ok, so we're going to break this down. Have or what they do, or oh my goodness, okay, so we're going to break this down. We have a plan that we wanted to talk about personal finances and your business finances, and that they should not be considered separate in terms of the whole picture and your brain and why that's important. So let's do it. Dive into that a little bit.

Lindsey: 12:41

Yeah, totally so right, as, like we talked about, kind of we before we started recording, people have this idea that your business finances and your personal finances should be separate, and I agree with that from like a bank standpoint right, it was like you should have a separate card or business card to put all your expenses on.

Lindsey: 13:01

Like those things should be kept separate. But I think what what business owners often forget is, especially for you know, sole proprietors or LLCs, or even into the S-Corps, whatever you're not, whatever your, your overhead is in your business, that is affecting what is trickling down and being deposited, or or an owner's draw out of your business expenses into your personal accounts. So if your overhead is wicked high in your business, it's because it's so easy for us to be like, well, it's a write-off, it's fine, I should get this, or I need more credentialing, or I need more something, and we add that as a business expense. That's a choice that you have to make, but you just know that then you potentially are missing out on the profits that would be coming into your personal money, whether that's just you, you alone, you and your partner, you and your family, whatever your family structure looks like, and so I think it's something that really needs to. The gap needs to be bridged there.

Camille: 14:00

What do you think is so tricky about making it feel like it's the same thing when it is in separate accounts, like that discussion of and I liked the point of you bringing up the discussion of women really knowing the nitty gritty of what's going on. Let's talk about about a bit about that.

Lindsey: 14:19

Yeah, it really boils down to if you don't know your numbers, you got a problem, right? Like you should be doing weekly checks with yourself to see, like, what is going out, what is coming in. How are you keeping track of that? Um, in a way that makes sense to your brain, because if your husband's a cpa, you said which is amazing, but sometimes their brains work a little bit different, and so if you have like a profit and loss sheet, for example, that might not always equate in your brain to like this, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense to me, right? Or if you're just handing off your stuff into QuickBooks, or if you have a virtual assistant or something like that, all great things. But you also need to be aware of what's coming in and what's going out, because again, it is so easy to convince yourself that like, oh, you need this next best thing.

Lindsey: 15:02

Or oftentimes and again this comes back to like the emotions of it all women don't feel worthy enough, or they have imposter syndrome, and so they want to buy the next course, or they want to buy the next credentialing or the next certification, or this or the next thing, and it's like, maybe we just need to focus on marketing efforts or maybe right, and so some of that is really just important to know.

Lindsey: 15:25

All in all, like I'll tell you, in my business my overhead is like $300 a month, like it's so low, and that's really intentional because I haven't turned up the dial on being willing to spend on some of those nicer, bigger softwares because it's a luxury, and right now I'm I've only been in business a year and a half just over and because of that I'm not willing to like turn the dial up on that because I, once you're in that like luxury lifestyle, it's way harder to turn the dial back down. And so I'm being really intentional about when I'm kind of climbing that ladder and I call it like three tiered living right, there's basic level, there's comfort level and then there's luxury level. And so knowing where you want to fall in that and knowing that you might have to ebb and flow out of some of those when income is looking really good, variable income makes it tricky, and so you know being able to attune to where you want to fall on that ladder.

Camille: 16:22

I love that concept because it's true, you do get it. I mean, we were just talking, as we got on the on the call earlier, that I have been doing what I've been doing for 14 years. I'm a little bit farther down that road and there are some things that I'm like gosh, I need to. I need that time more than that money that it would cost, and that's the exchange that you have to evaluate, which I think is really interesting, because I coach a lot of women on how to let go and hire an assistant so that they can grow to that next level, and that takes a minute. That's a very much a mindset thing, too, of what am I worth it and can I trust someone? And there's a lot. I feel like I'm a therapist when it comes to that, to be honest, because a lot of it is mindset work and really getting yourself there.

Lindsey: 17:12

Yeah, absolutely. And the same is true in, like, your personal finances, right, my husband and I talk about this all the time. We for a long time had people come and clean our house, which was amazing because I literally, running the calculations, I was like it literally is better off for us If I can dedicate those two hours to working versus hiring somebody to come and clean and vacuum and whatever Great Like let's do that, you know. Or mowing the lawn or whatever like.

Lindsey: 17:38

So hiring out and so and that's true for your business too and to your point, it is really hard because in business, I think the difference, then, in business finances versus personal is in business, we have to take more risks and it feels far more risky to hire that assistant and know that you're going to have a good return on investment, versus in your personal finances that's not as true, right, it's like, well, we're going to hire the cleaning team, they're going to come help us out, and if it's not working out, we'll just. You know it's it's, it's just a little bit different, um, but I think it's so important because, to your point, taking those risks and and doing some of making those business decisions, even if it's scary, can propel you so far forward. And so knowing, the trouble is knowing when is the right time for you. And I would argue that, like there's some people who have only been in business for four months and they're like, okay, it's time to hire my VA, and I'm like not yet.

Camille: 18:35

Not yet. You'll get there, you'll get there.

Lindsey: 18:38

We have full faith in you and not yet.

Camille: 18:41

Yeah, I think it's really important too for someone that is thinking of hiring help is that you understand the role really well so that when you do bring someone on, you know what to tell them to do and you also understand the process so that you can relate with that. There's a lot of reasons why that's good, but I'm curious with the process of helping people through many decisions, many questions, the therapy you said you work with couples a lot. What is a common scenario that you could help us think through that has been a hurdle for people could help us think through.

Lindsey: 19:18

That has been a hurdle for people. Number one, without a doubt, particularly in couples work, of course is the communication, maybe lack thereof, between couples. What I often see is women come to me and they're like I just don't understand money, I'm just not good with it, et cetera, et cetera, really like self-deprecating statements and um, and then they will proceed to tell me that their husband is really good with it and of course this is a heterosexual relationship that we're talking about. But, um, once I kind of talk through you know their situations and and look at, really, then we get into the numbers and I come to find that the, the guy, has been mismanaging the money, like they are sinking a little bit faster than they thought that they were. They didn't realize how much debt they have.

Lindsey: 20:03

And then when I talk to the women, often I'll break things down Like I try and you know I don't want to gatekeep anything, I don't want to use this like crazy language that sometimes is out there like very simplistic terms, this is kind of what's going on and they always shocked me with like oh, yeah, no, I know this, I know that and I know about like, and I'm like wait, so you're actually far more educated than you've ever given yourself credit for. Like, let's, let's change that a little bit. Like, tell yourself, let's change your story, change the narrative that you've been telling yourself. And again, not that it's the man's fault if they have been mismanaging things or that they've gotten into debt further than they kind of realized, um, because they've never been educated around it, just as we never were formally educated around it, you know.

Lindsey: 20:42

So they're out there doing the best they can, but the reality is men are far less able to explain their emotions, or to have any emotions, and so to come and be vulnerable and say like yeah, actually this isn't my favorite thing, is damn near impossible for them. Right, like they are supposed to be on, quote unquote, the provider of the like it gets messy. And so I work with couples about how to like again bridge that gap in communication. Like, how do we have a money date? How do we bring this up? What do we need to talk about? What are the areas or categories that we're looking from an expense standpoint and breaking it all down really simply for the two of them to understand. Because if the guy is like doing all the math up in their head all the time, then it's really hard for your partner to know what's actually happening.

Camille: 21:35

Yeah, I can totally relate to that, because I think that there is especially in a scenario like mine where my husband is so money minded, I can very much defer that responsibility to him, which isn't fair, to be honest, you know, like I think it's really good to be aware together. So one thing we've tried to do is when we have our weekly Sunday meetings as a couple and with our children one-on-one, we'll discuss the finances. And I kind of gave him a hard time because we do date nights on Friday and we are blessed to be in a place now where our kids are old enough they can babysit each other. You will get there, um, but it's.

Camille: 22:15

We were out to dinner at the date and he had been saying recently I just can't figure out where our money's going, like why is it so expensive? What is happening? And it was a decision we had made earlier to use not use our HSA card anymore, but to actually use our personal finance so that we could invest the difference in the meantime. I don't know if this is kind of getting into the weeds, but he but he was like, oh my gosh, like I forgot that. That was what the difference was. And once I looked at it, it was this and that. And I'm like, oh yeah, so it was just having that conversation. And then him saying, well, it's a good thing I did, cause we've done really well with that investment this year, that was a good choice. And I'm like, cool.

Camille: 22:57

So I admittedly don't volunteer to have those conversations probably as often as he would like, but he's always listening to Dave Ramsey and what's really fun is we'll play Dave Ramsey in the car and our kids are starting to ask questions and have asked about interest rates and what does it mean to invest and what does it mean. And I like your point of just having that communication open, because if it's something that's considered taboo or scary or something we need to shroud in our family, that's. I feel like anything you try to hide is never going to come out well. It's like keep it out in the open, discuss it, have open communication and even expressed fears, because we're living in a time right now with inflation, of everything. There is a lot of fear around a lot of people's finances and brushing it under the rug Isn't going to fix it. It's more of bringing it to the light and saying what can we do proactively? Would you agree with that?

Lindsey: 23:55

Oh, a hundred percent. And what I think people ought to know about this is your, your. There's two bodies of research out there. One says your kids' money habits are established by the time they are seven years old. The other says by the time they are nine. So I comfortably tell people, by the time they're 10 years old, money habits are established. And that's true for us too, right? So, like, think back to your childhood. Like how were you brought up? What money messages did you hear or not hear, see or not see? Right by the time you were 10.

Lindsey: 24:26

And with that, knowing that, what I also love about my, my, my work is there's so much hope in it because money habits can be changed, which is a beautiful thing. So if you're listening to this and you're like, oh my God, my kids are 16. What am I going to do? Like that it's okay, but to your point, I think there is a necessary vulnerability that has to come with being a parent saying like I didn't learn this stuff when I was younger and I wish that I had, and now we're going to have to make some changes so we can get on track with this, and so we can get on track with this and so you can ultimately have a better, brighter future and I. Those conversations are so, so important, because there is a fine line of not wanting to raise entitled brats that just get everything handed to them and not wanting to deprive them of things.

Lindsey: 25:12

And so how do you walk that cord? It's tricky. It's definitely tricky, but it's super fun. And I mean my kids are almost two and almost four and we have money meetings with them. We talk to them openly about money. I talk to them like, oh, my grocery cart today was $133. We got to put that in our little tracker and they love it. Like it's super fun. And I hope to keep that open conversation with them.

Camille: 25:39

Oh, that's awesome, yeah, I can tell you, even with that, being having the same parents, and I have four children and they all very much are different with their money. There are some that are definitely more spenders and others who are more natural savers, and that's been really interesting to watch as a parent, because personality and their relationship with money is different, even though they're raised by the same parent. So I think recognizing that and talking about it openly is very important, and now, especially having a teenager where he is bringing in his own money through a job and seeing how quickly that money can go. Yeah, and that's those are conversations we have all of the time, you know, look how quickly driving through a fast food or a fast food restaurant, like that money can be gone in a week, you know. So I think that is. It's really important to remember that these money behaviors are learned, but they also come with their own personalities too, which has been really interesting to see.

Lindsey: 26:48

Oh for sure I and I. I love it because I think that's the biggest thing is, I would rather my kids make $50 mistakes than $50,000 mistakes later on. And so when my kids do get to a point where they are spending their own money, I really want them to be practice. I will die on the hill of intentional spending. I love it and I want them to practice that as they're getting older. And so if they buy a toy or something that's like, this feels really impulsive, but I'm going to bite my tongue because it's their spending money, right? No-transcript, we get swept up in the moment I can meander through Target and find eight thousand dollars worth of stuff that I would love to purchase, but like that's not life, I can't do that Right. And so knowing, like, what is an impulse purchase, what is a intentional purpose or purchase is, is hugely important.

Camille: 28:01

Let's talk about that really quick. What are some good guidelines for us to go through, as we're about to? They make it so easy now, especially with Amazon one click buy or if you have, like your, you know, a Shopify store or where it's already logged into your phone and it's one click and it's done. That is for a reason. I know retailers, advertisers, anyone trying to get your money the slicker and quicker they can get you to say yes, the more you'll spend. So what are some tips to be mindful of in personal and in business, of what we should do in the thought process we should take ourselves through?

Lindsey: 28:39

Yeah, I think such a good question. What I will say is I think there's a lot of times a deep rooted issue that's happening A lot of times, especially again as moms. It's so easy to want to buy your kids things because you want to give them the world and really unpacking that. Why is that? Like, I have one client we talked about this at length and she's doing such a good job now, but she didn't have a lot and so she's really overcompensating for what she lacked in her childhood, and for good reason, totally understandable and yet we still need to reign it in, right? So I think, really kind of acknowledging that there are more complexities there. But you can also do what I call micro barriers, and I think, first and foremost, taking your credit cards off your phone or your laptop is an easy micro barrier. That'll just again make it a little bit harder for you to buy the thing If you want. Once your ass has to get up off that couch it is.

Lindsey: 29:37

You're like it's like poof, I don't even need it anymore, it's like you're like shaken out of the thing that you needed to buy in that moment, right, and so, especially for, like my door dashers out there love buying door dash, but if you have to get up off of the couch to go and put your credit card in the door dash app, you're far. You're going to be like, well, now I'm standing up, I might as well just go to my fridge instead of my wallet, right? So that's one micro barrier that I think is is really really important people start with. Also, we have a 48 hour rule in our house. So if it's a family expense, my husband and I have our own individual accounts and we get to manage that money separately and we have an allotted, you know, allowance, if you will, that each of us get. So that that's kind of our own discretion. If he wants to blow through his right away, go for it. If I want to save mine, I go for it.

Lindsey: 30:28

Whatever, but from a joint standpoint, whether it's for the kids, maybe a household item, something like that, it's a 48 hour rule. And this is really good for business owners as well, because marketing is really good about being like this course is on sale by now. There's only so much time left, and blah, blah, blah, right, and so, instead of falling prey to that marketing, giving yourself whether it's 48 hours or more than that, of like I really need to sit with this purchase, you can put whatever it is that you need in your cart, but you are not purchasing that for 48 hours and once you're out of, you know I've had a long day. I'm just trying to alleviate some stress and I will tell you, spending money is a coping skill. It is a really good coping skill because you're getting that hit of dopamine.

Lindsey: 31:14

So, having that 48 hour rule, you're still doing your scroll, you're still looking at whatever it is that you want to buy, but if you come back 48 hours later, you will find that there is far less things that you actually want to purchase. Some of you still will, and that's okay. Like spending money is not bad. I think that's a skill that people are not taught is how to spend money. Right, it's don't spend money, don't spend money, don't spend money. And the reality is, no, you work hard for your money, you should spend it, but how should you spend? It is really important.

Camille: 31:42

Yeah, ooh, I love that.

Camille: 31:44

It's kind of interesting that you say that, because I have, because I have been an influencer and creator for 10 plus years I have an Amazon account as an associate, meaning when someone, when someone else shares something and another creator or influencer shares something and I go to click on it, it automatically takes me to my associate portal instead of my personal portal and I will add it to my cart and then I'll leave it because I think, oh, if I really want it, I'll come back to it, because I have to type it into my now personal account, so we get, like, the free shipping or whatever else.

Camille: 32:22

But what's funny is that a lot of times, once I add it to that cart and I move on, I'm like, oh, I didn't really need that thing, I just was excited about it because I saw her wear it or whatever it was. But I go to my Amazon associate page cart and I have over 50 items in there, easy, that are just ones that I'm like, oh, I'll just add it to cart and then I'll move on. And then I realized, oh, and so that's been a barrier for me, that's been a natural barrier that I'm like, oh, I actually didn't need that, did I, and so that's an extra filter which I think has been really interesting to see.

Lindsey: 32:57

Absolutely. And and even you acknowledging that and paying attention to that is so important. I think we, as much as we try, there are times in our lives where we're just kind of going through the motions. You are a busy mom, you have a business to run, you have I mean, you have four kids, right, but it's so, it's so easy just to fall into that pattern and, like I said, like collapse on the couch at the end of the night and be like, oh, I'm so exhausted. And once we can put a little bit more intentionality into that and you can really think, like even the bag you were telling me about, right, it's like it sounds awesome. If you still want that in two months, great. But and and it's so easy because I even fall prey to this Sometimes I remember I was on Instagram and this girl had like the cutest little matching set, like matching sports bra leggings, and her Tumblr even matched, and I was like she's looking good, I should get that. And then, five minutes later, I was like what am I doing?

Lindsey: 33:50

I have not stepped foot in a gym since becoming a mom, because I don't have a gym membership anymore and we go on hikes all the time Like I do not need this matching set and luckily, you know, I stopped myself. But even it is. It goes back to that mirror exposure effect. You see it, you want it and then you convince yourself that you need it and I think that line between wants, needs and justifications is is challenging to navigate.

Camille: 34:16

Yeah, a lot to unpack here, but I feel like we went through some really great points. Please tell our audience where they can find you online and connect with you.

Lindsey: 34:25

Yeah, so I am financial therapist. Lindsay on Instagram, it's the best place to find you. Yes, thank you.

Camille: 34:33

Thank you.

Lindsey: 34:35

Um, yeah, so that's me. And then my website is coping with lindseycom. Um, also S E, Y and , my podcast is financial self-care with financial therapist Lindsey.

Camille: 34:47

So that's where I am. Ok, I have two last questions for you. One is and you can answer one of each or you can just pick one what are you watching, reading or listening to? That's the first one, and then the second one is a motherhood moment. So that could be. That's the first one, and then the second one is a motherhood moment, so that could be something funny, something sentimental, whatever that you want to share about a motherhood moment that you've had recently.

Lindsey: 35:11

Okay, I am not usually one for TV, but I do love like the drama.

Lindsey: 35:19

Crappy shows sometimes, and so I just finished watching whatever the Mormon Secret Lives. Yes, what did you? Yes, um, I, so many people were like it's totally ridiculous and honestly, I watched it and I mean, like it is ridiculous, but it wasn't as ridiculous as I expected, but really good. I think some of the women were just, you know, you get so invested in like their characters or whatever you want to call them, and I'm like, oh my God, who would want to hang out with her? You know she's crazy. It was good, it was a good like I've.

Lindsey: 35:52

You know, we've had a big, we're in a big transition right now. My husband just we semi retired and so he left his corporate job and so I was like we just need some like R and R stuff and so that felt really good just to watch it. You know, crappy show, loved it. Yeah, um, mother moment, gosh, I don't know. I'm probably mostly I'm just focused on the fact that I'm going to have a four-year-old which feels every mom is like I can't believe my baby, but it's like, true, like I know we have not yet sung her happy birthday, but I know I will bawl my eyes out when I do. Oh my gosh, how, how are you?

Camille: 36:25

for I've got to say four for my daughter is was such a magical time. I loved it so much. I have three boys and only one girl, but four is there still into like princesses and dressing up and they're so smart and just fun and say the silliest things. Oh, it's such a magical time.

Lindsey: 36:44

Yes, she cracks me up with. Like her, she's just like randomly on her mind and yeah, the princess stuff. Oh my gosh, she hit the nail on the head there. She's obsessed every day. I just want to be a princess when I'm older.

Camille: 36:56

Do your thing, do your thing Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been so helpful and if you have gleaned some helpful tip which I know you have please make sure to jot it down and talk to your partner and think about what it could mean for you and the goals that you have with your business, with your personal finances, with the experiences you want to have. And if it has been helpful for you, please leave a five-star rating and review. That helps other people to find our show and also to share it with a friend. Thank you so much for being here and we will see you next time. Hey CEOs, thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment and a five-star review. You could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram at callmeCEOPodcast, and remember you are the boss.