164: How to Develop the Leader within You With Meg Gluth-Bohan

MEGAN GLUTH-BOHAN [00:00]

And in my organization, we don't do agreement. We do alignment. You don't have to agree with me. You need to get aligned.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE WALKER [00:13]

So, you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who now. This is Call Me CEO.

[MUSIC]

Hey, if you are interested how to build leadership qualities within yourself, your home, your business, we're talking to a C-suite level CEO today. Her name is Meg and she is incredible. So, tune into this episode. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button to learn how these amazing women and mothers are building balanced lives that are serving other people and also taking care of themselves.

Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. This is Camille Walker, your host. And if this is your first time here, welcome. We celebrate women, especially mothers building businesses, as well as telling us how they balance all the things.

Today, we have no exception to that rule. She is the balance queen. And today, she's actually teaching us about how to embrace the leader within you, how to create a culture that you can achieve your goals and keep everything straight. This is Meg Gluth-Bohan. She is the CEO of TRI, has won Entrepreneur of the Year, and has so many fields of expertise I know nothing about. So, I'm so excited to jump into this with her. And thank you so much, Meg, for being here today.

MEGAN [01:45]

Thank you, Camille. It's nice to be here.

CAMILLE [01:47]

Yeah. We were just talking about the craziness. If you don't know and you probably don't, today is Halloween. And for mothers, we know that this is one of the craziest days of the year. There are costumes to be done, parties, mayhem. And on top of that, you had an extra special day. Tell us about how your day's going.

MEGAN [02:07]

Yeah. I was supposed to be talking to you a half hour ago and had to punt because I have had some water enter my basement. And so, this morning, true to form, when the day needs to start early and move rapidly, I also needed to be home to let in contractors, sign the contract, write that check, and start getting things cleaned up, and also make sure that my girls are finding their little wings and things like that, that they're wearing to school today, putting lunches in a bag, and helping my spouse out with making sure that we're all getting out the door. So, then that makes me late to this. And that is just what it is.

CAMILLE [02:42]

Yes. And everyone that's listening and I hope for those of you who have seen yourself in this situation, we all deserve and are needing grace. It's something where I have had to reschedule things many times. We, as busy humans, parents, people, it's okay to have that. And I think being real and authentic in those moments is what really binds us together. And then, that's the kind of environment and people you want to surround yourselves with.

So, I'm just really grateful to you for being real about that. You are this big speaking mogul, you travel all over the world, you're helping people in so many big ways that I know authenticity is a big part of who you are and where you show up in your business and as a person. So, thank you for being that way. First of all, I think that that's so refreshing. And I'd love to have you introduce yourself to our audience and tell us how you created this life path that you have for yourself.

MEGAN [03:41]

Thanks. I want to start by saying I didn't create it, I followed it. And I think that's a really important distinction, especially for women to think about. I'll put a pin in that and come back to it later.

I grew up in rural Iowa. And I am the child of a broken home and was raised below the poverty line. If you looked at me maybe when I was 10 years old and thought that I'd be the CEO of a large global business, I don't know if you would have put that in my cards necessarily. I think you would have thought I was a nice kid, but I'm not sure you would have put me there, and that's okay.

I somehow summoned my desire to go to college, even though I didn't know what I wanted to do. I borrowed all the money from all the sources and started college and was there not very long before I was kicked out. I was kicked out because I was prioritizing what I would call unhealthy lifestyle choices, drinking, and things like that over my academics. And so, you can't spend a whole lot of time on academic probation before they asked you to leave.

And that began a period of my life where I was kicked out of one school. And I knew I wanted to go to another four-year university, but obviously couldn't. I had to spend some time in there going to community colleges and proving my ability to get it together and do it.

And I did go to college. And it took me seven years to get a bachelor's degree. And some people are doctors by then, but not me. And I got my bachelor's degree and didn't really know what I wanted to do. I had a degree in history, and I knew I didn't want to teach high school history.

So, I applied for law school and got in. A few weeks before law school started, I learned that I didn't have a financial aid package sufficient to cover that. And a really good friend of mine's dad co-signed on my law school loans, which just to give you a view of that, you have to imagine a kid that's still struggling with alcohol abuse, that's still maybe not exactly centered in who she is, and not necessarily focused.

For him to take that risk on me was an act of grace on his part, and he fundamentally changed my life. It was a huge risk to him personally, I think. Although I think I probably knew, and he probably knew that I would do anything to not default on those loans.

And it's just one of those moments, I think it's really important in telling my story that I am very clear about the fact that I don't stand alone, that there are a number of people. And there always have been in my life that have been part of my propelled forward momentum. And he's one of them.

While I was in law school, my first wife was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. That did not do good things for my mental health and for the way that I was coping. And it was a tough ride. And we fought really, really hard together. And ultimately, after I graduated from law school, she passed away. And that began a descent for me into some really dark places.

I left the Midwest at that point and moved out to the West Coast. And in being out here and having some time, I practice law out here and I also floundered as a human being, I did both. I lived in two worlds of being able to do my job and being able to do what I needed to do, but then going home at night and not feeling good about who I was and not feeling like a fully whole person. And knowing that the way that I had elected to cope with these stories of my life wasn't positive.

And ultimately, I met my current spouse who said to me, "I love you, but I'm not going to do this alcoholism with you." And that began a moment where I had to make some choices. And I went to my very first meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I haven't had a drink since. And probably again, that's another moment of grace, right? And another place where I stand on the shoulders of a lot of people who no one will ever know. No one will ever know their names, they remain anonymous. They're anonymous people, but they have saved my life. And my story is their story. And they're a part of mine. And I have such immense gratitude there.

And while I was seeking to put my life back together, I was interviewing for some law firms in the Seattle area. And this is one of those moments where this is what I mean by being led or the story happening to you. I reached out to a friend of mine that I went to law school with. And I said, "Do you know anybody in the Seattle area? I'm interviewing at law firms and I want to know the mood and anybody that knows people." And they said, "We don't know any lawyers, but we know this guy, he runs a chemical company. And he might know some people, you should meet him."

And because I am a person who believes that nothing is really an accident, and nothing is really left up to chance, I thought, if they say I should meet him, I should talk to him. And I met him. And he and I had a really interesting dialogue about him and his business. And ultimately, he ended up offering me a job as general counsel for his company, TRI. He had started 25 years prior to that.

And I accepted for reasons that I don't really know. It just felt like one of those fork in the road moments where I just took that information, that offer into my heart and into my gut. And I said, this is what I'm going to do. And I didn't think I would do it that long. I just felt like it's what I needed to do for now. And so, I started. And we could spend hours on this. But ultimately, what I did is I fell in love with this business and what we do. And I started to really enjoy myself. And so, pretty soon I was the general counsel and the president. And then, pretty soon I was the CEO.

Again, not two days apart, but there's a journey there. And at the time that I was the CEO, I was running the business and my predecessor was at a place in his life where he was ready to retire. And I was ready to keep going. And so, the opportunity arose for me to buy the business from him. And again, one of those moments where you just say, okay, this is a fork in the road moment. And I have an opportunity to do something I never thought I'd do. And I'm not sure I feel equipped, but it's here. And if it's here for me, it must be for me. And I'm going to take it. And that's exactly what I did. And since that time, I have been the owner and CEO of TRI. We can talk a little bit about what that business does, if you want to.

CAMILLE [10:27]

Yeah. Tell us what it is. I know it's to do with chemicals. I think it's interesting for us to see that and also how cool. There's so much to unpack about your story. So, we can dig into that a little bit more. But wow, I'm sure others listening are thinking that too, like all these twists and turns, amazing. So, yeah, tell us about that. And then, we can dig into that a little more.

MEGAN [10:49]

Yeah, in brief, TRI is a chemical and raw material supplier, meaning everything that you have in your home, everything that's made and manufactured in the United States has to be made out of raw materials. So, we bring those raw materials in from either overseas or we just down pack them from domestic suppliers. And we get them to these end users.

So, some of my customers are infant formula manufacturers. Some of my customers are soft drinks. Some of my customers are paints and coatings. Some of my customers make mining, the applications and fluids. It's a large gamut of things. And when we say chemicals, we're talking about molecules. So, sometimes it's something as simple as baking soda. But baking soda, believe it or not, is sold in large quantities to help make laundry soap.

And so, I think it's important that people understand we're not necessarily talking about toxic sludge. We are talking more about ingredients and raw materials that are used to make a variety of things. In addition to that, I acquired a company called CBA earlier in the year that makes a lot of these products on a toll manufacturing basis for a lot of these companies. And so, we do some manufacturing at our plant in Chicago.

And soon, I will make another acquisition of another distribution company. And effective January 1, I will rename the whole thing, rebrand it, re-bundle it, and try and move in the world as one uniform entity. But it's fascinating work. It's absolutely fascinating work. I'm surprised how much I like it.

CAMILLE [12:28]

Wow, that's so interesting. I think that one of the most poignant things that as you were talking was saying that you were standing on the shoulders of people that didn't even know that they had saved your life and that you have been led into this path. What is it about every step in your journey that has allowed you to trust that intuition or that life flow? I think that that can be scary for a lot of people. What for you allowed you to do that with so much faith?

MEGAN [13:02]

I think every entrepreneur is a faithful person, whether they know it or not. And I think some of that, that makes us crave risk, because that's part of being an entrepreneur, too, is also then having this thing built inside of us that fosters our faith and our trust.

And so, I don't know how that formed in me, I just know that that's one of my life gifts, along with this propensity towards risk and building and creating. And I think anybody who has that desire to take a risk and create, and then also has the balance of faith and trust, there is the entrepreneur. There is the business executive. If you have that combination of ingredients, you're probably an entrepreneur.

CAMILLE [13:49]

Yeah. I would imagine that resiliency that you built as a child and as a young person comes into play with that, too. Do you feel like that was resiliency that was built into you from the beginning? Do you feel like that was a nature nurture thing? Where do you think you built that resiliency within yourself?

MEGAN [14:07]

I think we all have some spirit of resiliency in us that we're born with. I believe that anyway. And I don't know. Everybody has a different way of relating to the world, whether you call that the universe or God or whatever you want to call that. I think we all have that light within us.

And I think that one thing that maybe we don't always recognize is that even circumstances that are negative can turn on that light. And sometimes some of the most successful people I've ever met have a lot of negative circumstances that turned on that light. We're really tempted to think that if we don't have this perfection, if we don't have this story that's beautiful, if something about us is ugly or something we would rather not show the world that that that somehow holds us back from being what we're going to be or being who we could be.

And I think that actually the opposite is true that sometimes a lot of hard things can really turn on that light. So, I don't know that it was nurture or nature. I don't know how to answer that. I do think it's in us. And I think that mine turned on. And some of that is my doing. And a lot of that is my responsibility to foster that and to cultivate that. But some of that is things I haven't done and things that I can only receive and be grateful for.

CAMILLE [15:31]

Yeah, that's beautifully said. And I agree with you. I think that a lot of times the people who have stories with a lot of heartache and hardship are the ones that will push themselves to succeed more, it seems like that. I've listened to a lot of memoirs in my life. I'm a big-time audio book fanatic. And more often than not, whether it's a celebrity, a CEO, someone who's done something really big, or changed the course of history in whatever way, their stories are never simple. And very rarely, if ever, without trauma.

Life is the ups and downs. But I think that that's something, that relatability, especially with how straightforward you are with that and sharing that has blessed a lot of people. And I'm curious because before we started this conversation, you had said that with this business, in some ways, you can hide your story behind that because it's not really front and center. It's not about you unnecessarily.

So, what is it with your movement into the future of helping people start where they are, what is that part that you're hoping to step into now? Are you planning to share this story with everyone? I imagine if you're sharing it here, that's something that you plan to do. But I'm really curious about that step forward that you're taking of helping others develop leadership qualities. What's your plan with that? And what does that look like?

MEGAN [16:58]

Again, I don't know if I know what my plan is with that. I know that I'm led to put this out there. I know that there is a difference between success and fulfillment. And the richness that comes from, listen, I love what I do, I love what I do everyday, I love the team of people that work with me, I have a very strong sense of being a very proud and yet compassionate capitalist. I believe that my businesses need to make money. I believe they need to generate profitability. And that is because there are a lot of families that depend on that. And I am aware everyday and honored, frankly, by that responsibility.

And in addition to that, there is something in each of our paths that can be a light to somebody else's. And I am in a place in my life where I feel like all of those things that maybe I would have once labeled as dark or as not useful or not helpful, or even places of shame and darkness, maybe they can help someone else. And when I know that that can happen, then I have fulfillment and wholeness and not just success, and that my success can be used to feed that whole fulfillment.

And I think that's where I'm at. I'm at a really interesting turning point in my life of doing that. I don't know what that looks like. I don't know where I'm going with that. I've never been a person that sets five goals to achieve by 9 am this morning. I've never been that woman. I've always wanted to be I think, but I am for better or for worse, somebody who waits to be led to places and I was led here. And so now, maybe I won't see what this is going to look like two months down the road. But I'm here now and I'm responsive to what I'm called to be doing right now with this.

CAMILLE [18:51]

Yeah, how cool. I think that you represent such a unique woman force in the workforce. You're in a male dominant field. You're very in tune with flow and compassion, but also capital. It's just like you make such an interesting combination. It's really exciting for me to see that.

I'm really curious about it sounds like your rise to leadership within your company was gradual in a way that this man who you didn't know trusted you and brought you in as counsel and became the president and then the CEO. How was that received as a team? How did you develop that trust? And being a woman, I am sure there was some resistance. Can you tell us about that path?

MEGAN [19:38]

Yeah. A lot of people were really comfortable here, and some of them are now gone, with the way things were and they felt like they knew him. And they knew what he was going to do next. That's not unique to him. That's any business.

CAMILLE [19:55]

I've seen that.

MEGAN [19:57]

Yes.

CAMILLE [19:58]

We transfer leadership from one to and other, there's going to be adjustments and pain and frustration and all the things.

MEGAN [20:05]

Yes. But he and I had a very unique connection right away. Probably there's some initial, he was a recovering addict and I'm a recovering alcoholic. And so, we probably had a little bit of just knowing. I always say deep calls to deep. And I think there was some depth in both of us that spoke to the other. And so, we got along almost instantly, and I think understood one another at a very deep level almost instantly.

And I think that that's rare, but I think it happens. I think it happens a lot more than we know. And I think that part of what we all need to do in our lives is be attentive to when those moments are happening, even if you don't understand why that person, where they're going to fit in in your story. If you have a connection like that, I think it's worth your attention. And it's worth your pause. And that was definitely one for me.

I'm not sure that everybody outside of us understood what was going on there. And I don't know that we did either like, "I like working with you, I get you. I wonder why that is. Let's do this, let's build something together, let's do something together." And so, we just went with it.

It did take time, it took a lot of time to gain trust. Some of my closest teammates to this day are people that when I was initially hired thought I didn't need to be on the team. And they were very vocal about it. And it was very tough. And now, we work fabulously together.

How did that happen? Patience, we can't run into an organization and expect to just convince everyone. And if we feel motivated to convince everyone, then we're going to start to compromise who we are. And we're going to trade little pieces of who we are in order to gain acceptance. And that's not leadership.

Leadership isn't about acceptance and everybody liking us. And so, it was just about being steady in who I was and consistent and reliable in that steadiness and consistency, and then becoming someone that they could trust, and then someone that they could look up to and admire and respect. And all of those things are in play right now. But I didn't rush it. And I didn't seek to be anything but someone that I was in that.

CAMILLE [22:12]

That is such a good answer. And I can't say that I've been in that situation personally, but my husband has. And I think that watching him and I'm curious what the timeline is, but from what I've seen with him, it took three years to build the rapport, people figuring out, do you do what you say you're going to do, that you have morals that you stick to, that you're someone that will be there and you support and you care about the people that you're leading? I'm curious what the timeline was for you.

MEGAN [22:44]

I think about three years is a good answer. I had probably two and a half years before I was promoted to president. Then there needed to be a little time where they saw me as the president for a little bit. And then, I was promoted to the CEO. And by the time I was promoted to the CEO, my sense was that everybody was like, yeah, this makes sense. This is her role. This is what she's doing. So, was that from start to probably a five-year timeline. And I would say I had the trust of most by about three, three and a half. What would you say is one of the biggest lessons that you've learned about being an effective leader?

MEGAN [23:24]

Wow. First of all, to just be yourself. I mean it when I say that anytime we're trying to chase, here's the deal with being a leader, you're going to disappoint somebody or make somebody upset all of the time. 100% of the time, there will be a percentage of people who don't like what you have to say, or who are not in agreement. And in my organization, we don't do agreement, we do alignment. You don't have to agree with me, you need to get aligned because the buck stops here. And I'm ultimately accountable. And I've made a decision, and we will all align.

And if I'm wrong, I'm going to be the first person to tell you that. But in order for me to make those decisions, be decisive and hold that line and be stable and steady, like we were talking about, I can't want their approval. I can't really want their friendship. I can't really want anything other than their best interest, as I know it to be.

I say this all the time. And it's true for anybody who's in a leadership position listening on this, and especially at the CEO level. CEO is the only person who knows what all of the chess pieces are on the board. Even senior leadership at some point, there's some part of the chess board they can't see. When you're the CEO, you can see all of the pieces, and you can see where they're going. And you can see the next moves. And in fact, it's your job to have basically the rest of your game planned out or an idea of where you could go along with Plan B and Plan D.

And so, you have to understand that when you're in that spot, you're not going to have a lot of people who are going to be there massaging your shoulders and telling you that everything you're doing is right. There are certainly days when I've had really close to 100% success and approval, but that's rare. And it's not the rule.

And so, probably the biggest leadership lesson I've had to learn is how to tend to myself and how to gather resources for myself outside of my organization and outside my circle of stakeholders, people who have no vested interest in what you do, that can speak into my life and help strengthen me and give me what I need, so that I'm not seeking that, from the people who need me to just simply lead.

CAMILLE [25:41]

That is so profound. I think that piece of grounding and really being able to take care of yourself in a way that makes it so you're not trying to fulfill that in your business can be tricky because the majority of your time is spent in this leadership role. And wanting to seek approval can be in our nature. You want everyone to be happy with you. You want to make the decisions that everyone wants to cheer for. But that's generally not the case.

So, I'm really curious, what are you doing in a day to day, week to week, month to month approach, to find that stability in your own life, your grounding, that sense of approval that you need?

MEGAN [26:24]

Yeah. I tell people all the time we have a responsibility to number one, know ourselves, number two, handle ourselves and them number three, go lead and transform the world. And so, I know myself, I have a discipline of knowing myself. Part of that is assisted from the fact I have an excellent therapist. I have a business coach. I spend time being super honest with those people. Again, people who don't have a vested interest in the outcome, okay, they don't care whether I buy this company or don't. They don't care what my earnings are for March. These are people that just want to support me and my wellbeing.

And I think it's important to be open and honest about the need to have professional resources like that, because the other thing you have to remember is that sometimes even your family is a stakeholder in a sense, And so, I have an awesome relationship at home, where I have full, total transparency there, too. But if there's a hard decision, I have to remember, there's a stakeholder there, too. Not a negative one, but that is what is.

So, I think number one is having people that aren't invested in your outcome other than your health and wellbeing, be in a circle of advisers and using that, using coaching, paying for that. That's an important investment to make when you're an executive.

Second, I think then is part of your daily routines and your habits and your rituals around how you take care of yourself. So, I get exercise everyday. I'm mindful of what I consume, meaning what I eat, what I view, what I read, who I let speak into my life, what kinds of things I let into my space. I'm very data driven in what I do. Where do I go get my data? What is that source like? I'm very careful about those kinds of things, so that I can be super mindful of my responsibility to be responsible with that.

I am a daily meditator. I have a meditation practice, this concept of constantly bringing my mind back to thinking of nothing other than just the present moment is way hard, but super, super important. It's super important, especially if you are a person that is often asked to make really big decisions really quickly. It's an important skill to have.

And so, I know that everybody says those things. And I know everybody talks about taking care of yourself in order to be better, but it really is true. And I look at those things as an investment in myself and in my leadership. And if those things drop, which they do from time to time, I can't tell you that every single day, my home life allows for me to be on a four-mile run, but most of the time it does. And when it doesn't happen, I feel that and I notice that in my day. And it's worth me paying attention to that. And not just wiping that off the slate as like this is self-care. It's not like that. This is self-investment. And that's a big difference.

CAMILLE [29:21]

I love that self-investment. Could you walk us through your morning routine? I always love to hear just the nitty gritty of it. I feel like it makes it very real and tangible. And is it possible for me? I just think it's so interesting how everyone does it a little different finding what works for them.

MEGAN [29:37]

Yeah. So, I'm a super early riser. And I know that everybody hearing that is, not one of those, listen, here's the deal. I have two young kids at home. I have a busy household and I desire when I'm not traveling to be present with them when they get out of bed in the morning. So, it requires an early morning for me.

So, I get up somewhere between 5 and 5:30. Again, right away I meditate. That's one of the first things I do after I brush my teeth. And I spend time doing that. And then, I exercise. And sometimes those things are done rather quickly. And sometimes they drag out a little bit. My kids get up around 7 am. And it's always my hope to be available for them when they get up.

And then, I leave for the office when they're leaving for school, right around 8:15 or so. And I try not to schedule too much for myself before 9 am. And I say that, too, because I think as women, we often feel like we have to be everything for everybody. And we do sometimes. And part of that is just about juggling the calendar.

So, it's like a little tip I learned to try not to get scheduled before 9. Now, mornings like this happen. And even 9 o'clock is too early. And then, I try to have grace with myself and hope that I'm speaking with somebody who's going to be graceful with me. But, yeah, that's the morning for me. It's the first two hours of my day roughly are spent by myself in silence. I don't really talk to anybody. And I meditate and I workout. And I get inside my body and in with myself. And that's super important to me. I notice a difference when I don't.

CAMILLE [31:11]

Yeah, so you're a runner generally? Is that from what I understand?

MEGAN [31:16]

Yeah, I run, I lift weights. I'm trying to get better at lifting weights. I understand that weight training is an important part. So, I'm going to tell you, I'm a novice, but I'm getting better at it. I do that. I try to do that two to three times a week. And then, I am a huge yoga junkie. I love yoga for a million reasons. I love yoga. And I'm actually going to be getting my yoga teacher certification starting in January. I'm going to take classes to do that. So, yeah, those are my three go-tos.

CAMILLE [31:44]

Yeah. I like that. So, when you are home from work, I don't know what day your workday ends. But I know you have two young children at home. How do you find ways to connect with them? And how are you able to bring that into your routine as well?

MEGAN [32:00]

So, connection with our kids, this is the hardest thing for me. I'm going to be totally honest, I feel like I'm feeling most days. And then, I have these moments where I know I'm not. And I think that's really important. If there's any moms listening, just because you feel like you are, doesn't mean you are. I think for whatever reason, we have a standard. I don't know how I got mine. But I did. I got some downloads somewhere about what I needed to look like, what it all needs to look like.

Here's the things that I make sure that I do. When I come in the door and my children see my face and the way I look at them the first time, every time when I'm coming home from work or when I'm coming home from a business trip or even when they come out of their bedrooms in the morning, I want my face to be one of genuinely excited to see them because I am.

And even if I have 50 million other things going on, and we do, we're moms, we do, I stop and I look at my children in their eyes, and I make eye contact and I just say, "I'm so excited to see you. I missed you so much." That's a lot for a kid. That's everything for a kid is just that being seen and being noticed. And so, I am really attentive to my facial expressions with my children.

If I have to leave that moment, and I usually then move into my kitchen and start making dinner and I have to put my stuff away from work or change my clothes or whatever, even if they're following me around and telling me all their things, and they're so excited to see me which I love, they got that moment. Even if I can't look right at them, even if I'm taking my makeup off while they're talking to me or whatever, if I have to do some other things, we have that moment. We had that connection. So, I do that.

Never ever, ever, moms, underestimate the power of those small moments. I also make sure that when I'm putting my girls to bed, I like to go in there and lay with them for a little bit before they go to sleep. That's when they tell me things. That's when we talk. I'm not super rigid about the exact time they have to fall asleep. If all of a sudden, this is the moment that you're going to tell me that somebody didn't share with you at school and that hurt your feelings, maybe I could fudge your bedtime for a few minutes. I could just fudge the numbers on that and let you be 8:45 rather than 8:30 or whatever.

And I just do those little things because those little moments are everything. And the way that I know that it works out is that when they have a bad dream in the middle of the night, they come to me. When they feel sick, they come to me. When they fall down, they come to me. And that's because they know they can't. And that means that I didn't give them all the quantity of time that I have. But I did give them the quality.

And that's how we know, moms, hey, listen, you're there. They know you're there. And you know they know that because they're coming to you because they're hurt in that super tender way. And I use that to remind myself of that a lot when I'm feeling discouraged.

CAMILLE [34:56]

Wow. I think that you are an amazing mom. Those are the things that really matter is when you're truly seeing them and allowing them to open up in a way. Listen, if you're talking to your kids about their dreams or the way things are going at school, there's so much love and trust there. And you'll see as your kids get older, the later it gets, the more they want to open up.

So now, it's like I'm sometimes thinking I need to go to bed, but as teenagers, they just want to open up more and more later and later at night, which is great. And that's something that establishing those channels of communication young, so that they can continue to stay close to you in the teen years when things get different and harder. And I don't know. I'm just so grateful for that. And you're building that foundation so beautifully.

This has been so wonderful. I feel like I could talk to you so much longer and that this has been absolutely eye-opening for me in different ways of seeing someone in your position, share and build the way that you have and to be so vulnerable. It's just been an honor to interview you.

MEGAN [36:07]

Thank you. This has been wonderful. Thanks for your time today.

CAMILLE [36:10]

Yes, you're so welcome. And please let our audience know how they can connect with you and continue learning from you.

MEGAN [36:16]

Sure, I have a website. It's www.megangluthbohan.com. I'm sure the name and the spelling will be in the show notes. You can connect with me there. I'm not super good at social media and things like that. So, that's probably the best way is to reach out through the contact button there. I do read emails, but I just had to learn what a DM was a few weeks ago. If you DM me on social, I'm not going to probably get it right away. And I don't want anybody to feel ignored and unseen. So, the website is probably the best way.

CAMILLE [36:48]

And is that where people book you for speaking engagements?

MEGAN [36:51]

Yes.

CAMILLE [36:51]

I would imagine. Okay, yeah.

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CAMILLE [36:53]

So, everyone, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you found this helpful and you want to share, please do. That's how we bless other people that are in situations like ours and we grow. Any rating or review helps others to see this podcast more. And that means the world to me, it really does. You can DM me anytime @callmeceopodcast or @camillewalker.co. And I hope you all have a blessed week and I will see you next time.

Hey, CEOs. Thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment in a 5-star review. You could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram @callmeceopodcast. And remember, you are the boss!

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