About Progress & Creating Life Rhythms with Monica Packer

MONICA PACKER [0:00]

To me, not only tapping into who I was again, but also tapping into that new model of progress that really helped me to see, it’s funny, that I’m not achieving anything in the eyes of the world. I’m not getting known for any of these things, I’m not getting good at them, but in the process of leaning into them and developing myself and even failing at these things, I’m still gaining more confidence. I’m gaining more confidence in who I am and I’m also growing. I’m getting better in general, just in life.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE WALKER [0:40]

So, you want to make an impact. You’re thinking about starting a business sharing your voice? How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? We’ll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

[MUSIC]

I think one of the most relatable things as a mom, a busy mom of any sort, is that we can feel detached or sometimes not familiar with who we are or what we want or even what we like to do anymore because it just gets busy. And sometimes, the person that we forget is ourselves. And I know we’ve heard this messaging before. I know you’ve heard. I’ve heard it.

But what I love so much about our guest today, Monica Packer, she is the host of About Progress and she takes very bite-sized doable practices that you can incorporate into your everyday life that will actually make you feel connected to the person that you are. And not through big huge decision-making progress, but in little tiny bits of progress. And how does she do that and what does it look like and how do you start? So, for this episode, I want you to come in with an open mind knowing that you are exactly where you need to be. I appreciate you being here and let’s get started.

[MUSIC]

Welcome back, everyone. You are listening to Call Me CEO. This is Camille Walker. And I’m so excited because we have Monica Packer, who is the podcast host of About Progress and also a coach for women looking to achieve their goals and overcome things that hold us back, which there are so many little, little things, which we’re going to get into. And Monica, thank you so much for being with us today.

MONICA [2:26]

I’m excited to be here, Camille.

CAMILLE [2:28]

So, tell our audience about you.

MONICA [2:30]

I’ll just get the nutshell intro like if we were just meeting at a party. So, I live in Salt Lake. We were in the Bay Area for 13 years. We moved here about 2 years ago. I have 4 kids, 11 to 4 and another baby coming in January. And their nickname will likely be Caboose, just I don’t know. We’ll maybe end up calling him something different. But that’s me in a nutshell in terms of where I live and stuff.

I think the bigger story might be something that takes a lot more time, but I think the nutshell version of that too is I’m really passionate about a lot of things. I’m also really mediocre at a lot of things. And I’m just doing my darndest to be who I am and to show up for my life and my responsibilities, but not be trapped by them. And that shift for me has really changed my life over the last many years I’ve been doing the work that I’ve been doing and something that I love to share and hope other women can learn from.

CAMILLE [3:35]

I love how you introduced yourself because I think so often, we want to stand in a place and think, gosh, I have so many interests and I need to pick just one, especially in the world of business. Everyone is shouting, pick a niche. No one will listen if you are doing more than one thing. And we are multifaceted and multidimensional and I think that that’s not a bad thing.

So, I love that you introduced yourself that way that you can have many interests and that’s okay. And tell me, what was it that made you want to start a podcast? You started a podcast way before it was the trending thing to do. So, tell me about that a little bit.

MONICA [4:11]

That’s the only thing I’ve started just a little bit ahead of the curve in my life. Everything else was totally past the curve. It’s very connected. My work is very connected to the lifestyle I went through, of lifestyle change, of trying to explore who I was again. I had three small children, ages 4 and below. They were all born 3 years apart actually.

And I wanted that life. I wanted those children. I wanted to live where we lived, even with the hard circumstances there, my husband never being home and us living in a really tiny, really old house and having no support. I still wanted that life. I didn’t want to leave it. But I needed it to feel different.

And the biggest piece to that puzzle was that I didn’t know who I was anymore. With all the good intentions I had had, I had lost myself to my responsibilities and the pursuit of trying to be a good fill in the blank. And that ranged from being a teacher even before I had kids to then being a mother when I did have them to being a follower in my faith to being a wife. I replaced my identity with my roles and connected to those roles, my responsibilities with them.

And that left me in a place of not recognizing who I was, but also not liking who I was anymore. I wasn’t being the type of mom I wanted to be ironically in the pursuit of losing myself to motherhood and more. And so, I decided it was time. It was 6 months before I turned 30. I’m now 36.

So, at that time, I had some really clear defining moments where all of what I just said was staring me blank in the face like you cannot ignore this anymore. You are damaging the things that matter most to you. And in trying to be the sacrificial lamb for these things, you are damaging them.

And so, I had to find a new way of, one, being those things, and as part of that, being myself again. And the biggest thing holding me back there was perfectionism. I thought the only way to be interested in things was to be good at them. I couldn’t be interested in art unless I was also this amazing artist. I couldn’t be into writing unless I was getting published places or cooking or fitness, whatever it was. All these sides of myself, I had stuffed down for years because of perfectionism.

I didn’t know it was perfectionism. I thought it was laziness. I thought it was me checking out. I could do the things I needed to do for my responsibilities, but for myself, I left it all on the sidelines because the outcomes I knew I would never reach to prove that it was all worth it to have those interests and pursuits and those sides to my personality that I was making time for and sacrificing things for.

And so, as part of this pursuit to bring myself back, I also had to find a new way to grow outside of perfectionism. And I had to lean to the mediocre side to me for the first time in my life. Instead of going for the all route, which I had done the first 20 years of my life, that’s another part of the story. I did the all version. I did the achievement-oriented version of it and I paid some really big prices that I couldn’t pay anymore, didn’t want to pay anymore. But I had to find a way to grow and to develop myself, define myself all outside of that all or nothing model. I had been on a pendulum swing that I had been writing my entire life up until that point.

And so, what this started as my business even was me leaning into the mediocre and all the things I had waned to do, but felt like I couldn’t either because of time or money or whatever it may be, but mostly because of that achievement side to it. And then, I was allowed to be messy, to be bad at things. I was allowed to not have it go anywhere.

It was just about exploring myself again. So, I went to museums. Not museums, one of the things was I wanted to go to a museum by myself. So, I did that. Another thing was bake 20 new recipes and baked oatmeal counted. Another one was explore 5 new hikes in that area. and then there was writing.

And all of that evolved to me not only tapping into who I was again, but also tapping into that new model of progress that really helped me see, it’s funny, that I’m not achieving anything in the eyes of the world. I’m not getting known for any of these things. I’m not getting good at them, but in the process of leaning into them and developing myself and even failing at these things, I’m still gaining more confidence. I’m gaining more confidence in who I am and I’m also growing. I’m getting better in general, just in life.

And I had to lean into that more, but what became the business from this, sorry, let’s get back to that big question is I initially started a blog to just track the mediocre I was leaning into and being okay with it. And I called it About Progress because that was my main goal was to find if there’s a way to make things about progress, not perfection.

And that blog was all over the map. I was writing on there. I was trying recipes. I was doing interior design stuff because I’ve always loved interior design. I was just sharing all of it. And as part of that, I had both the progress of what practice looks like, more of the courage and confidence that I had had 10 months prior to start a podcast by the same name. And that grew into not just a community, which is incredible, but also grew into a movement of sorts because I’ve only continued to learn the past 6 years more.

I really dug in deep into the roots of what used to call to me as a child, which was personal development. I’ve always been into self-help. I was that kid watching Oprah after school and taking notes and reading books that were way too old for me about how to get better and how to do better and goal-making and all of that. I lost that. I lost it all for 10 years.

And in this podcast and with this community, I brought it back, but in different ways. I’ve learned new ways of growing and that’s my primary passion is to help women know who they are, feel supported in who they are, and to find fulfillment every day, meaning be full of themselves so that if they want to have the same roles or responsibilities, which most do, I’ve talked to very few women who want their lives to change dramatically, to not to have same responsibilities and roles. And even if they do, there’s a lot more reasons to it. But for the women who want to have the same roles and responsibilities but want it to feel different and they want to feel more like themselves, this is the way they can do that.

CAMILLE [11:34]

I love it. Man, I think that this is so relatable. I know that people who are listening right now are nodding their head just like I am because I think what you said about us not necessarily wanting our roles to change but the way that we feel to change, that is the key of where do I start? How do you get to that place of feeling like you’re waking up in the morning and your day is your own, even though your responsibilities have not changed? So, what are those tips and advice that you can give for someone who is in that place of wanting to have different feelings and knowing that they can make progress and not have to be the best at everything?

MONICA [12:19]

This has not only been years of work for myself, but what I want to say is it takes time for everybody. It won’t likely take years and years. In fact, I saw a dramatic shift in just 1 year and it was because I was doing the same thing that used to bring me rage and resentment and that was sweeping the floor, same chore of cleaning up someone else’s mess yet again that day.

A year prior, it made me feel resentful and, in that moment, I had a thought that stopped me in my tracks. And the thought was I feel fulfilled. And it was like, what? This was the thing that used to make you really angry or bitter, even if you were just like ugh, inside, not hurting people over it, but you were mad about it. And now, you feel fulfilled by the same thing. What changed? And it was me, but it wasn’t that I had changed, it was that I was more myself again.

So, starting with identity truly is the key to everything. It’s the key to the goals you want to work on, the habits you want to work on, the relationships you want to improve. It’s the key to finding hobbies again. It’s the key to feeling like yourself. That is the compass that guides everything because without that foundation of knowing who you are and what matters to you, that’s how I break out identity, you’re going to be doing those things based off of other people’s prescriptions and expectations. It will not feel aligned. You will feel still very lost or you’ll be doing with the all or nothing model. which does not help real women who have those real responsibilities.

And so, that really is the key. It’s starting with that foundation of knowing who you are. And if you don’t know if you are, there’s a chicken and the egg thing going on here. You can find out by experimenting like I did. So, that list I told you about like the ways that I was trying to explore myself again, that’s known in my community as the do something list. And the do something list, it stands for do something that scares you.

But another meaning with this is instead of doing all or doing nothing, we’re doing something, something to uncover and discover who we are. And in the pursuit of trying to explore who you are, you’ll be able to pick up some seeds, seeds that you’re like, okay, this feels in alignment or this one can go. This was interesting to try. That’s not me or that’s based more on Sally down the street or something I heard Oprah say, even though I love Oprah. But this is me. And we can plant them and we can let them grow and develop.

And as we do that, we get more information about this is what matters to me. This is who I am. And that goes back to values and having wants in our life again and honoring those wants. So, there’s a chicken and an egg thing there. You can start with wanting to answer those big questions or you can start with the experiment or you can do both. That experiment to me is the fulfilment piece.

And the third thing along for the ride is habit formation. This was a surprise for me. So, those are the three keys. Let’s say identity, fulfillment, and the three is habits. I had no plan for habits to be a part of what I do and also what I teach and what I help women with, but it was undeniable for myself.

At a certain point, I had a plateau where I wasn’t feeling still aligned with myself as much. I wasn’t growing. I didn’t feel supported in the things that matter to me and what I wanted and the fulfillment piece because my life wasn’t supporting those things. I didn’t have the time. I didn’t have the energy. I didn’t have the systems or the routines in place to help support that identity and that fulfillment. And so, I had to learn about habit formation.

And as part of that came years of failure, years. And you know this because you’ve taken my free class on habit formation for women and why we need to do it differently. But because I was already years into this journey of knowing that progress looks like this, not the all or nothing model. It looks like this. It looked like this for me. It can be small. It can be messy and all those kinds of things. Instead of blaming myself for these failures with habit formation, I opened myself up to experimenting more, just like I did with my identity of exploring.

And over time, I’ve learned more what women need to create habits. And the biggest thing I would teach here for your community is to shift them from being balls and chains in our lives of metrics that we have to uphold, that we are good enough at certain things in our lives or even certain roles and responsibilities. Instead of them being balls and chains, they are supporters. They’re pillars that lift us up. They’re not things that we need to drag around. They’re there for us. Their only purpose should be support.

And so, even with that, I want to say one really big thing. I am a habit person now. Totally wasn’t for years. Discounted myself from even trying. I’m a habit person now, but if you were to see my life, I don’t have a very regimented life. I focus on the things I can control for myself, which are usually the book ends of my days, the mornings and the nights. But the in-between is extremely flexible, very busy, there’s not a lot of resting going on right now in particular as I’m preparing for maternity leave and stuff like that. It’s just a busy season for me and I plan on having a slower season soon.

But what I’m trying to say is don’t think that being a good habit person means that you have to be a robot. No. And even just a few supportive habits can make the biggest difference for you. That’s the shift. And that’s what I basically live out now.

When I said your life doesn’t have to look different, it doesn’t in terms of the big picture. But my day-to-day life does actually now look different compared to 7 years ago. I still have the same responsibilities. I still have the same roles and relationships, but the how is different too now in many ways. Not only just in how I’m showing up to these things, but also how they’re being done. We do have better systems. We do have better routines. I have more supportive habits, even though it’s not completely regimented all day every day. So, yes, over time, you can have dramatic change and even how your life looks, but it starts with identity and fulfillment and having habits that support those things.

CAMILLE [19:38]

I love it. I think that that takes a step of bravery to go into that space of I am worthy of exploring my own desire and I think that a lot of times for women I’ve talked to, that can be really scary for them to say, “But I’m so busy. I have to take care of this. I have to do this.” It’s like the ongoing list that’s always in your mind.

So, I’m curious about this habit formation that you have formed for your morning and night routine. Can you share with us what that looks like for you that has really helped give you those pillars of book ends to your day so that you feel that fulfillment?

MONICA [20:14]

Of course. I’ll start this with a little disclaimer and the disclaimer is that your habits are also allowed to be seasonal. So, right now, my season, this is what it can look like for me, but when I have that baby in January, my book ends are going to be totally different. That’s what I have in my life. They’ll still largely be based in the same needs that I have, but they will look completely different.

But for me, how this looks is I’m more of an introvert and I have some special needs kids that demand a ton of energy when they’re home from school and oftentimes, at school too. I have to help manage whatever’s going on in there. So, because of that, I just need time to myself. And that really is the heart of I need to have time for quiet in terms of the surroundings, but to listen to my own things, to be learning. And I usually do that through podcasts and books and as part of that, movement.

Movement is really, really important to me and not because of aesthetics. It’s really truly about the mental piece of this to me. So, with all that being said, right now, I usually wake up about an hour and 15 minutes before my kids wake up and I go for a walk or I do the bike or some strength training. And then, that’s it.

That’s it, but in that part of that movement, I’m listening to things I want to listen to, whether they’re spiritual in nature or they’re just a fiction book that I really just wanted to dive into or a royalty podcast because I love British royalty, so something that feeds me. And the baseline for that for me, by the way when I have that baby, it’s probably going to be five minutes of just getting up and just being by myself and that’s it. And that might be all I have, but it serves the need of I have to have quiet to connect with myself.

And the morning rush is crazy around here. It is intense and I often split up my workouts too. After I drop off the kids, I go for a short little walk around their park or I come home and do the strength training. They’re allowed to look different like that before I drop off my preschooler. That’s the morning. It can be so simple. That alone makes the biggest difference to my day.

By the way, there’s a lot of shoulds that I would love to have too. I would love to meditate in the mornings. I would, especially as I’m preparing for birth. I want to be able to have some preparation time for that. There are still some things that I would love to meditate. I would love to sit down and study this thing and write things out. There are still the things I would love to really have that in my life, but I can’t do it all right now. But the heart of it can be served with just that simple movement and me time.

Now, night, this has been a huge work in progress for me forever because my community knows I’m a big reformed night owl. We all have our natural circadian rhythm, of course, that we can honor, but I was competing against that, but also my life was competing against it because again, if I don’t have that morning time, I don’t feel like I can be supported and have to show up for my responsibilities and my family and my work.

So, night time for me has been the biggest focus of supporting myself better and the whole route of what I do at night is to help me wind down. It’s not about productivity. It’s not about getting things done. It’s not about checking things off the list. It’s just about me detaching from the roles and responsibilities, slowing down, getting grounded and getting to bed.

So, usually, that means I have a time where I’d often work at night. That’s also one of the seasons of my life, but I have a timer on my phone and my watch that says 9 PM and I put the work away. And I’m also not on the clock in the home. There’s no more cleaning going on. Sometimes, most nights, this is how it is. I plug away my phone. I get ready for bed and I watch a show with my husband. That is a habit and it’s what I needed to put into my life. And then, we go to bed.

And as part of bed, I journal for my kids, just a short journal. I journal for myself. I have a small version of that that I do, like a one-line that works or sometimes, it turns into pages, but sometimes, one line has always worked. And I read until I fall asleep on my Kindle. And none of this will be rocket science to people. They’re like, “Wow, that’s cool, but tell me the big things.”

But what I hope this can just help your listeners realize is I don’t have to have a full day of regimented habits to feel supported. It can be simple. It can even be 5 minutes and that is what my life will look like. I fully expect my nighttime routine and my wind down to be far different, but because I know what I really need during that time to feel supported, I can alter my habits. They can be flexible to match my season until we’re in a good place to start building them up back to where I am now. And maybe that will be a couple years. I don’t know. But that’s what habits are. They’re supportive. They’re seasonal and they’re flexible. It’s so different from the ways we’ve been taught.

CAMILLE [25:58]

Yes, 100%. I think what’s really interesting to me too is I relate a lot to the way that you’re saying and it’s funny because I think we create a cadence in our life or habits in our lives that we don’t even notice sometimes are happening until you really sit down with a piece of paper and say, how am I using my day? How am I creating space to feel supported? I like how you said that. How am I supporting myself?

And I think that that acknowledgement is so eye-opening because we are mothers and busy and running from one thing to the next, especially if you’re running a business from home or outside the home. It adds another layer because all moms are busy. I don’t care if you are working in a traditional sense or not, we’re all working really hard all the time. So, I’m curious for your day time, how do you make space for building your business? You mentioned that you work at night. So, what does that look like for you with creating space for that?

MONICA [26:59]

So, night time is typically just a catch-up hour. Sometimes, I coach at night like I did last night from 8 PM to 9 PM. But other times, it’s just my kids are down and I just need an hour to button some things up. So, it’s not like a primary deep focus time. It’s just what are the things I need to make sure I wrapped up today?

My primary work time right now and this has been different every year, for years, it was nap time and quiet time. My kids got really good at having an hour to 2 hours of nap/quiet time in the afternoons. For a while, there was a mommy’s helper.

When I lived in California, I had 10- and 12-year-old sitters come by twice a week, 2 hours each and while I’m there because I worked in the kitchen next to the fridge, it was such a small home. I was right there, but they just came to play with my kids. So, I could have that time.

Right now, what it looks like is I am now working more in the mornings while my 4-year-old is at preschool and the other kids are at school too. So, I usually get about, I don’t know, 1.5 hour to 2 hours and all the listeners who knows this, we get stuff done. Moms, we have such limited time, especially if we’re still the primary caretakers of our kids that we know how to put the pedal to the metal and get things done.

And I think the biggest thing that helps me do that is there’s rhythms to the day that I just honor. My morning, I told you about, I have to have that preemptive about me time, but the morning, that’s family, then it’s me with work, and then when my kid comes home, for the 4-year-old, it’s about him. Sometimes, there’s a couple times a week where I still have to work for an hour and he has to have quiet time and that’s totally fine. He’s learning a lot. That’s not a bad thing.

But the afternoons, that’s family. Afternoons and evenings, that’s my rhythm. At nights, I can come back to myself again. So, really just honor the natural rhythm your season needs for you and how you can match it with your needs too and the responsibilities that you have because Mondays are laundry days, Fridays are these, some systems I do. On Sundays, I know I’m going to clean the stainless-steel appliances. I don’t know why. I just decided Sundays, stainless steel. I clean, polish that up.

But what I’m trying to say is the rhythms allow me to show up flexibly because I often have a lot of appointments for my special needs child especially. That just means every day looks different. I have different coaching clients. I have episodes that need to go out or courses that I’m working on. Each day looks different and even the responsibilities within the home, I’m allowed to show up flexibly. The laundry needs to get done. The floor needs to be washed.

Be reactive in a way that feels more responsive rather than always putting out fires because I know their rhythms. The part of that too is having good boundaries about knowing it’s time to leave this undone. It’s time for me to leave this work. I’m done. It’s time for me to leave this chore. I’m done.

That’s a big part of it is getting good. I get so much done and I tell my community it’s because I’m really good at not doing things. We have to be willing to make tradeoffs in any season we’re in. There will be tradeoffs. And so, being willing to make them, following their rhythm, honoring yourself along the way, it’s going to be different all the time, but knowing that that’s what the root of how time management should look and habits, I think that is what makes the difference in us being able to actually show up to all of these things.

CAMILLE [30:47]

Yeah. I love that idea, just the word of, it’s time for this to be undone. Because I think that so often, we think if it’s left undone, it’s not right and that makes me a bad mom or whatever the thing is. And what I love about that too, and this is a parenting tip that just came to my head that I was thinking about, is when you’re working with a toddler or a preschooler or you’re trying to transition from one thing to the next, it can be hard for things to do that.

And one of the parenting tools that I learned and used was that the language that you use is, “It is time for.” So, you say to your kid, “It’s time for bed or it’s time to get ready to go to school or it’s time for lunch,” rather than yelling, “Let’s go! Do this thing or put your shoes on,” and commanding rather than doing that, saying, “It’s time for this,” which I think as you were just saying that, it’s time to leave this undone. That connection to me was like, yeah, we can allow ourselves to do that too, that transition can be hard for us too of leaving things undone. So, I love that you said that because it connected that to me of recognizing that rhythm and that time, that it’s time for this now. And that’s okay.

MONICA [32:08]

And that’s what helps me the most as I’m managing every day mostly looking different besides those book ends. And last week, I’ve had one of the busiest weeks I’ve had in years and it was totally intense. But because of those rhythms, I was able to take off the hat when I needed to, put on a different hat, take off that hat, and put it on. And I still felt like even though I was exhausted by the end of the week and I needed the day to just sit and let the kids make messes because they get home early on Fridays, that was fine.

That could be part of the rhythm. But I still felt really supported throughout that really, really intense week. I still felt like myself. And that would have been different, not a lot of years ago, a few years ago. That would’ve been different. I would have been more short-tempered or more reactive. I would’ve been more resentful or martyr. I would have acted like a martyr, even just internally. So, yeah, honor those rhythms.

CAMILLE [33:09]

Yeah. And I think for me too when you spoke to those things that you really need to feel supported, I think for me, sleep and movement is huge. The time to feel my own thoughts and feel my own body in both mind and soul, that really is if I’m allowing myself to get up before my kids do, that habit formation even though it was hard and I was like, I want to sleep as much as I possibly can, if I gave myself that time before they woke up, I was like, wow, I’m more ready to take this on of being ready for you and your needs because I’ve taken care of my own.

MONICA [33:548]

And even within that, I mentioned habits are flexible. There are always baselines to these and that’s one thing that I teach a lot about. I have a whole course on habit formation called The Sticky Habit Method. And one of the things we learn is that we need a baseline for those worst of days or even just like the crummy or I’m tired or a kid was sick or my period kind of days. A version of the same habit that matches the need you have, but it can look different so that you still have that consistent habit, but you also have the support you need and the consistency too to come to build on it the next day or to come back to the more ideal version the day after that. So, it can even start with a 5-minute I’m up before my kids and doing a sun salutation and taking one deep breath.

CAMILLE [34:40]

Yeah. We talked briefly about toxic positivity, which for me, is a really interesting topic because by nature, I’m a very positive person. I love looking for growth. I want to look at the bright side of things. But talk to me a little bit about toxic positivity and how that can be detrimental to progress for us.

MONICA [35:08]

So, to me, toxic positivity, if we were to just share some examples of this, these are the people that feel really motivating when you’re learning from them and they’re smiling and they’re cheerful. They have great energy and you love learning from them and you get those highs where you’re like, “Yes, I’m going to do this.”

But the real heart of their message are things like, “Decide today’s the day. You’re the only one that can change your life. Nobody else. You’re in charge. Today’s the day. You’re going to do it. Commit. Commit to yourself.” All that kind of language, “Yes! Yes! Yes!” And then, the next day, life hits.

And to me, what toxic positivity does in the personal development world is set people up to fail, especially women who have extremely reactive and flexible roles and responsibilities, whether or not they’re the primary caretakers for the children. There’s so much research behind that. And you know that from the class that you took with me.

So, to me, toxic positivity, especially for women, is just masked self-criticism because what it turns into is a blame cycle of you being like, I didn’t decide. I didn’t have enough motivation. I didn’t have enough willpower or determination. And that turns into this whole cycle of the identity piece of seeing yourself as someone who can’t or seeing yourself as someone who is lazy who never finishes, who’s the procrastinator, who puts themselves last. And that identity is just going to keep getting affirmed over and over and over by your supposed lack of action.

When really, the action, the prescriptions you were given were not realistic to your life. They were more for robots, but we’re not robots. And so, for women who are realizing, wait, is that the kind of advice I’ve been trying to follow? I was really motivated by that and I’m realizing it wasn’t me. That’s the biggest step right there.

Notice when a message is being delivered with toxic positivity instead of realistic compassion of being able to help you see that growth is messy. It’s never a linear path. It is small wins building over time, not extreme overnight success because of extreme actions. That will only lead to burnout. We’ve been taught so many things wrong.

So, that’s the other part about the toxic positivity. It’s built off of, you do it all, you do it all now because you decide. Let’s do it! I believe in you. And you’re like, yes, I can do it. And then, you burn out in 5 days or can’t even get started because it requires so much energy. So, just be aware of who you’re learning from and what they’re really teaching you and ask yourself, is this masked self-criticism? Is this setting you up to fail? Is it also setting me up to blame myself? And if it is, stay away. Just back away. Put the book down. Stop the podcast. I was going to say leave the conversation, but that might be a little weird. Change the conversation. Just get out of there because that’s not helping you.

CAMILLE [38:38]

That’s so fascinating the way you said that and I agree with you because I think especially as women, like you say in your class, our days are so different from day-to-day we’re managing so many lives that oftentimes, we might create a goal for something, but the step-by-step sequence may look really different from when you sit down and write it down to when you’re actually living your life and life gets in the way.

So, you have to create space for that and follow a rhythm rather than, like you say, robot steps where I’m going to do this, then I’m going to do this, then I’m going to do this, I’m going to do this. And I think that what is really helpful I know for myself and for you as we both coach people through progress like this is that having someone in your corner who has been there and understands it and can help you process through it is one of the best investments you can make, whether it’s personal or professional. If someone’s done the things you’re hoping to do or creating a life that you’re wanting to mirror, that having someone that can see it and a perspective that you are in is huge.

MONICA [39:51]

Amen to that. And that’s the thing I’ve learned the hard way. I have always been a determined person. I lost that piece of me for about 10 years when I was recovering from the costs I paid as the overachieving perfectionist. But I’m one of those people like, I can do it. I can do it myself. And also, money gets in the way a lot for me. It has in the past.

So, for those who are listening and thinking about wanting to have change, whether it’s within their business, within their relationships or just the things we’ve been talking about, your habits or feeling like yourself again, pay for a coach, pay for a therapist, enroll to a class or a course. Do something like that where it will help you expedite your growth.

I have changed so much, but honestly, it took longer than it needed to because I was just doing it on my own a lot of times. The times where I’ve had the therapist, the coaches, and this is both personally and business-wise, that’s where I saw the gap that I wanted to close. It closed on my own. It just took longer. So, with someone else, it closed faster and more efficiently. So, definitely consider investing in yourself. I’ve learned that the hard way over and over. So, please, learn from me.

CAMILLE [41:17]

Yeah. And I can agree with that too. I think either way, you’re going to be investing time or you’re going to be investing money depending on what resource you have available to you and what your situation is. Maybe for the one, you would go with the time because money is short or maybe you now are in a place where money is available and your time is a lot more limited.

So, whether it is you’re looking to have someone with helping grow your business, hiring a virtual assistant, which is what I coach people with and through or if you’re looking to reach those goals, that’s something too where you could say, okay, I now have a little more money and less time. And so, maximizing that is huge. So, I love where all of this is going. I just think that you are fantastic. I love the work that you’re doing with women. Please tell everyone where they can find you and to learn more from you.

MONICA [42:11]

Thanks, Camille. And I really appreciate this conversation. Typically, I’m on your side of the mic interviewing people. So, I always feel a little self-conscious as the interviewee because I’m talking so much. But I know that’s what you’re wanting. You’re such a good listener. And so, thank you for this time.

If they want to learn from me, start with the podcast. It is free. And I do help you cut down the time too because I’m telling you everything that will help shorten that gap for you in quicker ways. And it’s called About Progress. And if you want to learn more about habit formation, I do have a full course called The Sticky Habit Method. But if you want a free place to start that will help you stop blaming yourself for the habit fails that you’ve had, for the identity that you’ve built about habits that maybe you’re lazy or that it requires a ton of willpower or that you’re all or nothing, take my class that we’ve talked about that you took called The #1 Reason Why Women Must Do Habits Differently. So, you can stop blaming yourself and learn the science-backed reason why women have to show up to habits differently. And they can sign up for that at www.aboutprogress.com/habitclass.

CAMILLE [43:20]

Perfect. Thank you so much. I think that this has been such a wonderful class. I know I’ve learned a lot and I really look forward to speaking with you again.

MONICA [43:29]

Thank you, Camille. Same to you.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE [43:32]

Hey, if you’re listening to this episode right now and thinking, “I have too much on my plate. I need help,” that is what I’m helping busy entrepreneurs get is more time and more help through hiring a virtual assistant. I have my 60 Days to VA course where I teach moms how to become virtual assistants from home.

And let me tell you. It has been an incredible opportunity of growth for them, but also a huge opportunity for me to connect you with these amazing women who are my graduates who are looking for ways to help your life become easier. So, please reach out to me www.camillewalker.co or on social media, @callmeceopodcast and we can connect you with someone who will help you have more time, more freedom to create rhythms in your life that feel just right to you.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you found something in this episode that ring true to you or you feel like others would benefit, please share the podcast. That is the number one way to help to grow or a really nice thing you can do for me too is to leave a 5-star rating and review for this podcast, so others can discover it as well. I hope that you have had a wonderful time listening to this. I know that I’ve learned a lot and I hope that you have a wonderful day and I will see you next time.

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