Growing a Product Business From Home, Overcoming Burnout with Courtney Killpack

COURTNEY KILLPACK [0:00]

I would say if you’re starting a business, use all the free resources that you can. Look up in your state and see if they have a free business development center in your area, in your city. That has been immensely helpful. I know there’s different ways you can get help and mentorship, but the way that I went about it was it was free. The person that’s my mentor has had 30 years of retail and owning business experiences, so they’re real business owners and it connects you with other business owners who are small business owners. And so, just having that network of people and that can help you if you have questions, this has been really helpful.

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CAMILLE WALKER [0:39]

So, you want to make an impact. You’re thinking about starting a business sharing your voice? How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? We’ll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

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One of the most successful ways to have a thriving business that you love is number one, to identify what it is that you are wanting to solve as a way for a problem for someone else. What’s that problem that you want to solve and how are you going to make that person’s life better?

That ignition of passion is what is going to help your business to thrive and to help you find success on the days that it will get hard because it will. It will always get hard. You’re going to have hard days. You’re going to question why you started and knowing that why is essential. That is why I built your 5 days to discovering your why. It is for free and at www.camillewalker.co.

On today’s episode, we have Courtney Killpack, who is the designer and creator of Bra Fittings by Court who wanted to help women solve the problem of having a bra that fits well and makes them feel amazing. And what’s really fun about her story is that it was an ignite of a passion that I saw in her years and years before when we were in the blogging space together.

And I love nothing more than seeing the women in my circle thrive and create incredible businesses that they love. It doesn’t mean that it’s been easy. So, as you’re listening to this, I want you to listen to what those keys are for growth and also the times that you know that you need to rest. So, let’s get into it.

Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. I am your host, Camille Walker. And today is a good day because we are talking about boobs with Courtney Killpack, who is the owner of Bra Fittings by Court. And what’s really awesome about this is that this is a dream that I have seen Courtney dream about literally over I think it was a decade ago when we were sitting together in a hotel room. So, Courtney, thank you so much for being here today and I can’t wait to let everyone hear your story. So, please introduce yourself.

COURTNEY [3:01]

Hi, yeah. Thanks, Camille. So, I’m Courtney Killpack. I am a mom to three young children. I’ve been married for 16 years and known Camille for the last 10 years. And we used to rub shoulders a lot in the blogging world before we are doing what we’re doing now.

But yeah, I’ve always had this dream to open up a professional bra fitting shop in our town in Layton, Utah is where I live. And because I feel like there’s a huge need for services like this for women, most women don’t know how bras should fit. They don’t know where to go to get the size range that they need. But also, I really wanted the store to be a place where anybody can walk in and find their true size. And then, I wanted to specialize in carrying beautiful fashionable forward things because here in Utah, there’s not many places that you can go that can carry things from Europe and other places around the country or around the world.

So, that’s what I wanted. And 5.5 years ago is when I started it in my house, in my small home in the basement in a room. And now, 5.5 years later, we have grown a ton and hoping and looking forward to expanding to our first brick-and-mortar store this next year.

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CAMILLE [4:32]

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CAMILLE [5:40]

Wow. Now, Courtney’s being really humble with this. They have won two national awards for independently-owned lingerie stores. This is something that I remember when you, at the time, were doing marketing for a very, very successful blog, Six Sisters’ Stuff, if you’re familiar and you are amazingly talented in many things that you were doing. And I know that you helped grow their business a lot.

And I remember you sitting at a desk, it was early in the morning. I had actually brought my baby with me. I was nursing a baby at the time. So, I was up early. You were up early. And you said, “I’m learning a lot. I love this, but at the end of the day, I just want to help people find great bras that make them feel amazing.” And I was like, wow, what a unique vision and goal and dream. And from my understanding if I remember right, you had done bra fittings at Victoria’s Secret. Is that right? When you were a teenager or earlier in your 20s?

COURTNEY [6:38]

It wasn’t Victoria’s Secret. It was Nordstrom. Yeah, I used to work at Nordstrom when I was early years of my college. And I worked there for almost 4 years. And that’s where I first was introduced to this whole industry, learning how sizing works, the difference between UK and US sizing, some of the different brands.

And just I really learned a really good foundation at Nordstrom of how to take care of your customers, really good customer service, and that really gave me a really good starting point as to taking what I learned from Nordstrom and being like, this is what I want. I want to replicate what the Nordstrom experience is like, but then I want to do it on my own terms and my own schedule and carry the things that I want to carry that I think women in our community want to see and wear and just that really helped me get a great foundation of having some experience in that field.

CAMILLE [7:51]

That is so cool. So, there’s a couple of things I want to tap into here because I feel like creating something from such a passion, A) is a huge step for success and B) just knowing, okay, I’m going to start this. I’m going to start it from my home. What was that moment like for you leaving something that you knew was bringing in income to know go to your spouse at whatever point and say, “I want to open a bra shop and have women come over and try bras on?” What was that conversation like?

COURTNEY [8:21]

So, when I first had this idea that I wanted to open a bra shop, the only way I thought of knowing how to do this was to open up a brick-and-mortar store. And so, because I hadn’t started the shop yet, I soon found out how expensive it is to get inventory to get a brick-and-mortar store set up. And because I didn’t have an experience doing this myself, it was rather risky. I didn’t want to go into debt. I didn’t want to get a loan out.

And so, I felt like after talking to my spouse. And then, I have a mentor that I’ve been working with for the last 5.5 years. It’s a side note, but in the state of Utah, they’re called Utah small business development centers and they have them throughout the state of Utah and they’re free services for small business owners where they can go and get free mentorship, help with anything that they need to help grow, start a business. And it’s a great resource that’s free.

So, I started working with them and just talking to my mentor. And then, with my husband, it seemed like the best option and the most cost-effective way to start this business not knowing if it was going to work, if it was going to be successful was to start small. In that way, the business started at my home.

And at first, it was weird. I don’t know if people are going to feel comfortable coming to somebody’s home they don’t know. How is it going to work? How does that go for my family? So, there were definitely some times where it was hard to figure out what we can do. But as we started, I feel like I just had to start. I just had to start, and then to see how things go.

And then, we had to pivot. So, for example, when we first started in our house, my husband wanted some privacy. I don’t want to feel like I have to be super quiet and people walking in our house. So, we ended up putting a curtain in between this wall where people walked into our house, and then they would go downstairs into our basement. That’s where our shop was and that separated the living space of the other part of the house. So, we did that for a while.

But yeah, it was definitely trial and error and figuring out what works best for us. And it’s been a 5.5-year journey from there. And then, back in 2020, when I first started the shop and the house was getting too small, bras were everywhere and it was just getting really intrusive. That’s when we knew. I think this has been almost 3 years since I started it and the shop was overtaking our basement, my husband’s office. I had employees doing shipping fulfillment in my garage and it was just taking over our house and that’s when we knew it was time to move into a larger home.

So, in 2020, we moved into our larger home and we have the whole basement set as the shop. We actually built a separate entrance into our home so that people can come and in out of the shop and that they don’t have to walk through my house. And that has been really good for my mental health and just for the sanity of my family and for having more privacy and separation between business and our personal life. So, currently, it’s in my home still, but we are planning to move it out of the house this next year. So, I’m really excited about having that ability to grow and expand, but also having that more separation from family and work life.

CAMILLE [12:17]

Yeah. I think that’s really important and awesome that he was supportive and let you know what the boundaries were of, I need to feel like there’s privacy. And I don’t think that any business with a couple of using a home could work unless you had open communication and support. So, that’s really cool that he was able to do that and that you could move into a new home and accommodate that.

So, talk to me about your growing pains or maybe a moment that you had that was like, wow, this is actually working. I know before we started this call, we talked about the growth of you bringing on new people. What point in the stage of growing your business did you and your husband think, “Wow, this is a thing. This is working. This is growing. Let’s keep going?”

COURTNEY [13:04]

So, I would say about a year into it, I realized that I was doing the fitting, shipping fulfillment, emails, and it was just getting too much for me. So, I hired my first employee and she just helped do shipping fulfillment and she did that for about almost a year. And then, after I had my third baby, I was out on maternity leave for about 6 weeks.

And at that point, I was about 10 weeks booked out. And I was like, yeah, I can’t sustain it. I can’t do this by myself. So, I trained my one employee to fit people. So, over the summer, the course of three or four months, I trained her how to fit people and it just slowly grew from there. As we keep growing, I added up more people.

Right now, I have 5 employees. I have a girl that does all of our emails, shipping fulfillment, customer service. And let’s see. I have 4 other fitters do fittings in the shop and they’ve all been trained by me. But the great thing is that we’ve been able to find some of the employees have a really special gift. I have one employee who’s really creative and loves everything to do with jewelry crafting. And so, she’s been helping us just making some really fun boob crafts for the shop and she made these cute boob pillows and we’re having a Christmas tree this year and she made all these boob ornaments. And I have another employee who’s really creative about social media.

Actually, all of my employees were previous clients of mine and that has been the most successful thing for me because they’ve come into the shop. They know what the difference is to have a bra that fits them and they have had experience themselves. And so, they’re passionate about that too. So, having people who are passionate about the same thing has probably been the key things of two, having a success business like mine is just finding those people who are passionate about the same thing as you are and want to share with that other people.

CAMILLE [15:21]

That’s really good advice. I love that they’re past clients of yours, so they believe your vision, they know the experience. They want to provide that for someone else. And I know from friends of mine that have gone and we’re booking mine because I don’t know. I know we’re booking it. I knew that I was going to be going through a process of getting a lift and tissue removed and fat put in. There are so many things that our bodies go through as women whether you’re getting implants, a fat transfer, a lift or maybe you have really big boobs and you’ve never found a bra that support and fits you.

So, I want you to talk a bit about that transformation and that care that you can give to people because I think it’s so cool that you can give an answer to someone who has felt desperate or who has felt bad about themselves. If you have a bra that doesn’t fit well, I think it affects so much of our persona about how we feel about ourselves inside and out.

COURTNEY [16:19]

Yeah. No, that’s one of the reasons why I’m so passionate about what I do is because bras that fit change women’s lives instantly. It’s not like a weight loss program where you have to work really hard for 6-8 weeks to start seeing changes. It’s immediate.

And then, the thing is what we try to do in the shop and we try to personify is that we’re all beautiful, no matter what state of life we’re in. Come as you are. I get a lot of women that tell me, “I need to lose 10 pounds before I come in. I need to finish doing this before I can come in or I need to finish breastfeeding.” And I’m like, no, everybody deserves to wear things that fit their body now and there’s ways that I’d advise how to go through the process of getting bras that fit as you transition into different sizes. You’re losing or weaning or that kind of stuff, but everyone deserves to feel comfortable in their body.

And what bras do is that they take what you have and they make you feel better. And so, we’re a very body positive space. And because of the large selection that we carry in sizes that reflects in the products that we carry, we have something for everybody. Everybody from young girls who are 10 who are starting to develop to pregnancy to nursing to sports bras to when you’re older and want something more comfortable, if you want something really sexy and beautiful. So, we have something for everybody and that’s what the mission of the shop is just we want everybody to feel comfortable and beautiful in their own skin.

CAMILLE [18:07]

I love that. That’s such a gift. I have a daughter that’s 11 and going through that process is tricky and I feel like it’s such a wonderful opportunity. So, you offer virtual fittings as well. Is that something that was born due to the pandemic or was that something that you already offered before that?

COURTNEY [18:24]

When I first started the shop, we just had the in-person fittings and I wanted a way to scale my business. And so, I wanted everybody to have access to professional bra help no matter where they lived. So, with the help of some partners I had at the time, they helped me create a bra size calculator where we would actually take measurements from everybody that came in the shop and use it.

You put those measurements in an algorithm that we had created and that would tell them based on their breast shape that they identify as and then their measurements. It would tell them based on the thousands of women we’ve fitted in the shop compared to your measurements and your breast shape, this is the size we recommend you’re trying or starting with, and then these are the bras and styles we recommend you’re wearing based on your breast shape. That came out of necessity of being able to scale my business and be able to reach more people.

But it proved to be so important during the pandemic because we had to shut down for 6 weeks during the beginning of March 2020 and that helped keep our business to keep going. And so, I’m really grateful that we had that in place before that and that’s been a source of way for us to grow and reach more people and be able to access our services.

But the good thing is that we’re actually going to be hopefully by this winter, that’s our free online bra size calculator that we have and once people order things from us, if they have questions, they can contact our customer service, but it's not virtual. It’s not online, but we’re going to start doing virtual fittings here this winter where you can actually meet one of our professional bra fitters.

And if you want to pay for that service, that’s another option that you can do. So, you can come in the shop, be able to do virtual, if you want to meet online or over Zoom, and then the other option is to do the free online bra size calculator. So, I’m just finding that the more ways we can reach out and scale, the better, more reach, more growth that we will get.

CAMILLE [20:43]

Yeah, that’s amazing. Good on you for being ahead of that curve that no one knew what’s coming. That’s amazing that you had that in place. So, with growth and growing that we’re all doing, I am a huge advocate of if you want your business to grow, you bring in other people and you take care of yourself mentally and physically. And that’s something that we had talked about briefly before starting this episode, which is why I help match busy entrepreneurs with my virtual assistant graduates.

And I’m curious. What is it now that you decided to take a bit of a step back this fall because it’s your slow period and you have some time to breathe and recoup, what are some things that you’ve done to help take care of yourself?

COURTNEY [21:29]

I think I’ve said no to a lot of the things I normally don’t say yes to. So, every year, I like to go present at this really fun women’s expo every year. Last 5 years, I’ve done it. And this year, I decided not to. And I’ve said no to a lot of things, but also, I think for me, I’ve just been taking my physical health the top priority. I’ve been walking my kids to school every morning. I’ve been trying to just fit in more exercise activities I like to do like going hiking and biking and that kind of stuff.

Every day, I try to make an effort to do something that brings me joy. So, whether that’s watching a show or I love to decorate and do things in my home. So, if that’s going to HomeGoods and looking for a pillow or just something I normally don’t have time to do and focusing on that.

Also having quality strong connections with other people, so with friends, finding things with people I love. I’ve been able to travel a lot this fall, which we haven’t been able to as much as a family, which has been really, really fun. So, just doing things that I love and focusing on relationships with my family and my spouse because I feel like when you’re so busy in growing, those things are the first things to go and you feel like you have to put things that you like to do on the backburner. And then, that’s when you feel burned out and you feel not inspired and you don’t feel like you’re just going the ways of life.

And so, just living more intentionally and just putting the things that really matter that bring you joy and happiness in the long-term first. So, that’s what I’ve been doing this fall and it’s been really nice. I just focus on things that I put on the backburner a little bit too long.

CAMILLE [23:39]

Yeah. We were just discussing about this earlier and I think especially in the first one to three years of starting any business venture, it is very much about the go, go, go, the hustle, hustle, hustle and then it comes to a place where we have to take a break. We have to pause. We have to breathe.

And one concept that I love that I have shared many times is that women are cyclical beings. We have times of pushing and times of rest. We were built that way, just like the seasons. The Earth is built that way, just like the moon. We have to have time for rest. And I think that that’s something that there is no need to feel shame or guilt for that that is something that is meant to be a part of who we are as a person so that we can grow and that we can reflect and that we can remember what is the root cause and why we started in the first place because otherwise, I think we just get lost in it.

COURTNEY [24:34]

For sure, I love that.

CAMILLE [24:36]

Yeah. So, I’m curious now with what you’ve learned in the process of these five past years growing your business, building your family. What advice that you would give to someone who is wanting to start a new business and balancing motherhood as well?

COURTNEY [24:54]

I would say have strong boundaries. For me, one of the other reasons why I started the shop in the house is because for me, I wanted to have more flexibility with being a mom and doing what I love. So, for me, I knew that to be able to accomplish that. And then, also this was for financial reasons, but I knew that starting a business can be stressful.

And when you have stress, that takes a toll in your personal life, your family life, your marriage. And so, I knew for me and my husband, my husband is a lot different than me, quite opposite of me. He’s a lot not much of a risk taker. And so, I knew that to be able to do this, I needed to take consideration what he felt comfortable with. And some people’s spouses are like, “Let’s go for it, 100%.” My husband was not as 100% in. Not that he didn’t support me, he’s a lot more not as a risk taker.

And so, for me to ease him into, this is what I want to do, starting at the house was a better process for us than just going 100 miles an hour into a brick-and-mortar store. So, having set expectations, I think talking about feelings. How do you feel about this? This is what I want to do. So, that’s something I would say.

The other thing is have your kids involved as much as you can in it. So, for me, my kids, I have a 10-year-old daughter, a 7-year-old son, and a 3-year-old daughter. And I think because they’ve grown up with a bra shop in their house, it’s really helped foster a really open household where we talk about bodies. We talk about body parts a lot. And bras are just a normal thing. It's like shoes. And so, I also have my kids help with certain things like putting bras away. And so, if they want to help, then they’re open to help.

This was a couple of days ago. He said to me, “Mom, when I turn 16, I think I would like to work at the shop.” I’m like, “Okay. What would you want to do?” And he’s like, “Maybe I can grab my bike from school. I can come and help clean and help clean the bathrooms.”

We just are really open about that kind of stuff and we try to get them involved as we can. So, that is also a good way I feel like to balance motherhood with a business, but like you said, I think the last thing is there are going to be times where you’re going to feel guilty and you’re like, I’m spending more time in my business than I am with my family. And that’s going to be normal.

And there are going to be hard things. There are going to be times when you and your spouse are not going to agree with how you should grow your business. I’ve had that recently. I’ve been wanting to grow my business in ways that my spouse doesn’t feel comfortable with and that’s been really hard to have to navigate that.

And so, having a lot of conversations, having an open communication has helped us to get through that. Any other advice? I would say if you’re starting a business, use all the free resources that you can. So, look up in your state and see if they have a free business development center in your area, in your city. That has been immensely helpful. I know there’s different ways you can get help and mentorship. But the way that I went about it was it was free. The person that’s my mentor has had 30 years of retail and owning business experience. So, they’re real business owners and it connects you with other business owners who are small business owners and so just having that network of people that can help you if you have questions is really helpful.

And then, the last thing I would say is don’t do what I do and don’t try to do your taxes and your payroll by yourself. Just hire somebody to do it or just use a payroll service. It will save you so much money if you just ask somebody else to do it for you than try to do it yourself.

CAMILLE [30:26]

Yes. Amen and amen. No, that is such good advice. Honestly, that’s something that I’ve been so spoiled to have because my husband’s a CPA and an accountant. And I take that for granted because my brain does not work that way. And I will tell you that as entrepreneurs, if you’re listening to this, you have a business, you’re thinking about doing a business, typically entrepreneurial type minds do not have the same capacity as people who are not entrepreneurial because we think of the big vision. We have big ideas. We want to do really creative exciting things and sitting down with numbers and crunching things and looking at spreadsheets is not an idea of a good time. That stresses me out.

COURTNEY [31:11]

Yeah. My husband’s a computer engineer. So, he’s very analytical. And I’m the very opposite. I’m more creative. And so, it’s nice to have somebody who’s more analytical on my side like, “Hey, have you thought of this?” No, I actually haven’t even thought about that. So, it’s good to have a different perspective, even though some perspectives of mine, “Yeah, I don’t want to hear that.” It’s good to have someone you can talk to that thinks differently than you because it can give you a different perspective that you wouldn’t think of.

CAMILLE [31:48]

Yeah. It makes me laugh because there’s a TikTok going around that it’s an audio that says, what happens if someone who is crazy marries someone who is boring? And they get married. And I think that opposites attract that way. They do.

And what is really good is that makes you a great time as a partnership. They do tell you things you don’t want to hear a lot of times. I know I’ve been in that scenario where I’m like, “Yeah, I know, but I don’t want to hear that,” or I’ve had many times where my spouse has said, “You’re pushing too hard. You need to slow down.” And that can make me really mad sometimes.

But it’s good to have someone like that in your corner because they love you and they care. So, if you need someone on your team, which my guess is you do, find someone who can fill in those gaps that are not your genius because that’s what helps a business to grow.

COURTNEY [32:41]

Yeah, for sure. The one thing I was going to say is one thing that I’ve learned through therapy and having a spouse that has been able to point this out and it’s hard to admit this, but your success of your business does not define who you are. And that’s been really hard for me because for a long time, I’ve always tied my self-worth to how successful my business is.

So, if we’re not doing well, if we have customers that are upset or whatever, I really took that really personally. And so, I’ve had to untangle that thought process of, if it’s successful, then I’m happy and there are going to be times when you’re slow or you’re down 20% or whatever, but that doesn’t define who you are as a person. So, having self-worth outside of your business too is really important to weather those storms.

CAMILLE [33:43]

I love that advice. I think that same train of thinking can go into the way that our children are behaving, the way things are going in the house or how clean our house is or how good of a cook we are that week. There are so many things that we can put stock in the value of who we are.

And at the end of the day, your value is inherent and you have it because you exist. But it’s so easy to get wrapped in that because we want the pat on the back. We want the accolade. We want to feel like we’re having that success. So, I really appreciate you saying that because I think that that’s the well-roundedness of the success of life to know that it’s not about what you do, it’s about who you are. Yeah.

COURTNEY [34:28]

Yeah. And one of the things for me is defining what success means to you. For me, at first, when I first started the shop, my goal was to be able to take my family on a fun trip every year. That was my goal, every year. Just once a year.

And now that I’ve exceeded that, my goal has shifted. It’s to teach my kids to work hard, that they can have passions and dreams and they can accomplish anything that they want to. But also, for me, it’s to be able to help others. I would love it to get to a point where I can take all my loved ones on an amazing trip like what Sara Blakely does from Spanx. She takes all her girlfriends on an amazing 7-day or 14-day trip every year. I don’t know if I’ll be able to do that, but just sharing, being generous has been a really huge thing for me, whether that’s with my employees, paying my employees well and just being generous to others.

And I find generosity for me is a way to give back. So, I try to show generosity in the way we interact with people. For example, we have a really flexible return and exchange policy. We understand people are busy. Life gets hectic. People can’t come in as soon as they can. And so, we try to be really generous. We try to be understanding. And just spreading that goodness because I feel like when you’re generous, that comes back to you with more loyal customers, just happier employees, and just an overall happy place to work at. So, for me, generosity, to be able to be more generous is a way for me to feel successful or feeling like I am successful.

CAMILLE [36:34]

I love that. Very, very good. Figure out what success looks like for you right now and take the steps that you need to get there because success is defined differently by everyone and I think getting into that root of what is it that success looks like for me right now and reevaluating that. I love that you said that that it can change and that’s perfectly fine. I’m really proud of you. I think that you are doing amazing work. You are helping women feel empowered and beautiful and capable and I think that that is such an incredible service. So, thank you so much for being on the show today. Please tell everyone where they can find you.

COURTNEY [37:12]

Yeah. So, you can go to our website. It’s www.brafittingsbycourt.com. And we’re also on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook and it’s @brafittingsbycourt. And you can find us all there. We’re always on there.

CAMILLE [38:29]

Awesome. Thank you for being on this show today.

COURTNEY [37:31]

Thanks, Camille.

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CAMILLE [37:34]

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you could please do me a favor and leave a rating and review where you’re listening to this podcast, it is one of the best things to help the show grow as well as sharing it with a friend.

Here’s the thing. Every time I share a story about a small business, it not only helps this podcast to grow, but also those small businesses to grow as well. If you have a story that you think that our audience would love to hear, let me know. Reach out to me on Instagram @callmeceopodcast or @camillewalker.co. I love hearing your stories. I love sharing your stories.

And if you are feeling burn out and need a virtual assistant, let me help you. That is something that I have been able to change many lives by helping them get connected with graduates of my 60 Days to VA program and I would love to help you too. Listen, you are not made to burnout. You are made to thrive and to be alive and enjoy your life not only as a mother but as a person. So, I hope you enjoyed this episode and I will see you next week.

[MUSIC]

Hey, CEOs. Thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you’ve found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment and a 5-star review. You could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram @callmeceopodcast. And remember, you are the boss.

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