Have you ever considered what it might be like to become a professional speaker? In this episode, Camille welcomes Grant Baldwin, the CEO of The Speaker Lab, whose mission is to give speakers clarity, confidence, and a clear path to make an impact. He is also a best-selling author and the host of The Speaker Lab podcast.
Grant shares his journey starting out as a youth pastor and then starting a speaking business with limited resources. He shares an overview of the SPEAK framework that they use in teaching clients and his advice on dealing with speaking anxiety and how to establish a successful speaking career.
If you have something that youâre passionate about and want to share where you could change other peopleâs lives, tune into this episode to hear Grantâs tips and tricks on how you too can become a professional speaker in any field you can imagine.
Resources:
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Purchase Grantâs book at:
www.amazon.com/Successful-Speaker-Booking-Building-Platform-ebook/dp/B07VLC1WH7
Connect with Grant:
Visit The Speaker Lab: thespeakerlab.com
Access the Speaker Fee Calculator: myspeakerfee.com
Listen to The Speaker Lab Podcast: thespeakerlab.com/podcast
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GRANT BALDWIN [0:00]
The challenge here for so many speakers is that we want to make this as broad and vague as possible. And so, who do I speak to? I donât know. I speak to people. I speak to humans. My message is for everybody. Itâs like letâs narrow it down. Okay. I speak to females. Thatâs still half the worldâs population. So, itâs really difficult to narrow it down because we think we need to be able to speak to as many people as possible.
And the same thing is true whenever it comes to what you speak about or what problem do you solve. So, sometimes Iâll ask speakers, âWhat do you speak about?â And they say, âWhat do you want me to speak about? I can speak about anything. I can speak about entrepreneurship or podcasting or parenting or marriage or family or faith,â or on and on the list goes. And itâs like but really? Can you speak on all these different things?
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CAMILLE WALKER [0:48]
So, you want to make an impact. Youâre thinking about starting a business sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? Weâll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.
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Have you ever considered what it might be like to become a professional speaker? Is there something that you have to share that you feel so passionate about that you feel like you have a story or concept or education that you could share where you could change other peopleâs lives?
I feel like becoming a public speaker is something that many of us have considered doing, but we donât know exactly where or how to get there. So, that is why Grant Baldwin is here with us today from The Speaker Lab whoâs going to be talking to you about how you too can become a professional speaker in any field you can imagine. So, letâs get started.
Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. This is Camille Walker, your host. And today, Iâm with Grant Baldwin, who is the CEO of The Speaker Lab. He helps you take your story and turn it into profit and turn it into something where you can story tell and share all over the world because now, people are doing it virtually and in-person and I cannot wait to dive into this.
So, you know that I very rarely take on a male guest. And so, this is a special day. And I know that Grantâs going to help us out a lot because hereâs the thing. I have noticed, and Grant, Iâm going to turn this over to you a little bit, and thank you so much for being here, I have not seen as many women speakers as I do see paid men speakers. And I donât know why that is. Iâm guessing you have some insight on that, but thank you for being here on the show. And I canât wait to dive into this topic with you.
GRANT [2:36]
Yeah. Thanks for letting me hang out with you. I really appreciate it. We were talking just a second ago before we stated recording, Iâm married to my high school sweetheart. We have three daughters. So, Iâm in a house full of women. Itâs just me and the dog, weâre hanging on to it. So, hanging out with you and a bunch of moms, I feel right at home. So, this is awesome and Iâm excited to hang out with you and talk to you guys, speaking all things speaking and weâre going to cover today.
CAMILLE [3:00]
No. I love to hear the background of how you got in what it is that you do and how youâve made it such a massively successful career. Youâre a bestselling author. You have your podcast. You also have your community of all of these thousands of people that youâve helped. So, how did you get started in this business?
GRANT [3:18]
Yeah. So, if we go way back in time, in high school, I was really involved in my local church and my youth pastor had a really big impact on my life. And that was the trajectory I was on. I was like I want to do that. That seems like a really cool gig. I felt like if I can make the impact in otherâs lives that he made in my life, that just seemed incredibly rewarding and fulfilling.
And so, I actually went to bible college. I worked at different churches as a youth pastor for a little while. And there were parts that I liked, parts that I didnât like. But the thing I really enjoyed was I really enjoyed speaking. Speaking was one of those things I felt like I was decent at and I had a lot of bats and practice speaking at church on a weekly basis. And I wanted to do more of it, but I just didnât really know how do you get started?
And I had a lot of the questions that maybe you or your audience has sked, things like how do you find gigs and what do you speak about? Who hires speakers? And how much do you charge? And how does this mysterious industry work? How does this happen? And so, at the time, this was about 17 years ago or so, there wasnât really any podcasts or books or resources on the topic. And so, I found myself just emailing, harassing, stalking other speakers and just like, âHey,â pick your brain type stuff and just trying to learn some stuff and was able to learn a few things and book a few gigs and eventually, some more gigs and more gigs and got to a point where I was doing about 60 or 70 paid speaking gigs a year.
And it was awesome. I was having a blast travelling all over the US and had a lot of people who were asking me like, âHey, I want to do that. I would love to be a speaker. How would I do that?â And so, started doing some coaching, training around that. And then, about six years ago, so we started The Speaker Lab, which is what we do today, which as you said, we work with speakers teaching them basically the ins and outs of the speaking industry and specifically how do you get booked and paid to speak with your message?
And so, yeah, thatâs what we do today is work with speakers with all different ages, stages of life. We work with speakers in every US state, 49 different countries around the world, all different subjects, topics, industries. Thereâs just massive amounts of opportunities for speakers.
And so, I know for a lot of people who may be interested, one of the things I like about speaking is it is the type of thing that you could certainly do full-time. There are speakers that do 50, 75, 100 gigs a year and itâs fine. But there may be some of your audience whoâs listening whoâs like, âIâm a stay-at-home mom or Iâm a busy mom and I donât want to be on the road 50, 75, 100 nights a year. Iâd love to do 5 gigs or 10 gigs. Iâd love to do some stuff locally or maybe virtually.â Again, how do I find those? What do I speak about? And who hires me? How does this world work? And so, yeah, there are amazing, amazing opportunities for speakers that exist right now.
CAMILLE [5:50]
Kudos to you for bringing it online. I canât imagine how much that has affected the world at large and also for your business to be able to be at home and spend more time with your family. So, thatâs really cool that youâre bringing this message and helping so many.
GRANT [6:06]
Yeah. I still speak some but not nearly as much as I used to, but when I was speaking full-time, one of the things that I would speak a lot about was this idea that who you are is more important than what you do. Who you are is more important than what you do, meaning if we are great podcasters, if weâre great speakers, if weâre great entrepreneurs, if weâre great fill-in-the-blank at whatever it is that we do and obviously, generally in a professional sense, but if we drop the ball as husbands, as wives, as moms, as dads, as sons, as daughters, as human beings, if weâre this shell of a person, weâre doing it wrong.
And so, I tell our team internally all the time that, listen, I love being an entrepreneur. I love being a business owner. I love being a speaker. I love the things that I get to do, but my most important roles by far hands down is being a great husband and being a great dad to my girls. And so, my wife, she had a choice, but she was stuck with me at this point. My three daughters did not have a choice. Theyâre stuck with me.
And so, I want to be the best possible husband, the best possible dad that I can be. And so, I donât think itâs an either/or thing. I think you can have your cake and eat it too. I think I can be successful in business and I can lead a good company and I can make an impact with our team members, our employees, the speakers that we work with, and I can also be a good husband and I can be a good father and I can have both.
But you have to be massively intentional about that because typically, it swings to one side or the other, but as entrepreneurs, you get to design the rules of the game. And so, you get to decide what it looks like for you. And so, you may see someone else doing it and youâre like, âThat doesnât work. That doesnât resonate with me.â But theyâre playing a different game. Theyâre playing different rules than what may make sense for you. And thatâs okay. And you may see someone on the other end of the spectrum and theyâre not doing nearly as much. They could be doing so much more. Thatâs okay. Theyâre playing a different game. And so, you get to design the rules for what makes sense for you and your life and what it is that you want to do.
CAMILLE [8:03]
Yes. I think we could end the podcast right there because Iâm over here nodding like the power of âandâ that you donât have to do this or the other, but really designing what works for you, which has always been my methodology for everything Iâve ever done here sharing online. So, thank you for sharing that. I feel like weâre very likeminded in that way.
So, letâs dive into just where do people start? Letâs say that I have an idea of something I want to share or even what if I donât even know that I want to share, but that I would love to speak. I know that thatâs an even tricker question because thatâs so individually-based, which again, not many people love to speak publicly. Itâs a rare breed.
I think of that Seinfeld where he tells the story of when polled, the average person would rather at a funeral be the one in the casket than the one giving the eulogy. It just goes to say that speaking can be terrifying for some and there are some who love it. So, letâs say that I love it or letâs say that I want to learn to love it and Iâm at the point where I want to be profitable with speaking. What are your bits of advice for getting started?
GRANT [9:09]
Yeah. And so, why donât we do this? What we do inside The Speaker Lab with all of our students is we walk them through what we call the speaker success roadmap. This is a 5-step process that makes the acronym, SPEAK, S-P-E-A-K. So, why donât we just go through this like a high-level overview, and then we could just jump in wherever you want.
So, the S weâll start with is select a problem to solve. Select a problem to solve. And so, thereâs two key questions that every speaker needs to think through. Number one is who do you speak to. And number two, what problem do you solve for that audience? Now, this isnât exclusive to just speakers. This is true for any type of business, any type of entrepreneur endeavor that you want to do, you got to be clear about who your audience is and what problem you solve.
Now, the challenge here for so many speakers is that we want to make this as broad and vague as possible. And so, who do I speak to? I donât know. I speak to people. I speak to humans. My message is for everybody. Itâs like letâs narrow it down. Okay. I speak to females. Thatâs still half the worldâs population. So, itâs really difficult to narrow it down because we think we need to be able to speak to as many people as possible.
And the same thing is true whenever it comes to what do you speak about or what problem do you solve. So, sometimes, Iâll ask speakers, âWhat do you speak about?â And they say, âWhat do you want me to speak about? I can speak about anything. I can speak about entrepreneurship or podcasting or parenting or marriage or family or faith,â or on and on the list goes. And itâs like, but really? Can you speak on all these different things?
And the analogy I always like to use that we tell speakers all the time is that you want to be the steakhouse and not the buffet. The steakhouse and not the buffet, meaning if we were going to eat and we were all going to out for dinner or something that weâre looking for a good steak. We have a choice. We could go to a buffet where steak is one of 100 things that they offer and theyâre all mediocre, or we could go to a steakhouse where they do one thing, but they do that one thing really, really well.
So, they donât do tacos. They donât do lasagna. They donât do seafood. They donât do sushi. They do steak and thatâs it. And so, if theyâre like, âBut we have to appeal to vegetarians.â no, you donât. You can do one thing and be really, really good at that versus trying to be mediocre at a bunch of things for everybody.
And so, itâs counterintuitive because again, we think that the more topics we can speak about, the more things we can cover, the bigger our audience is, the more opportunities we will have. And thatâs not true. The more narrow, the more focused, the more clear you are, the easier it is to actually find and book paid speaking gigs. So, thatâs the first part. Thatâs the really, really foundational part. Because if you get that right, then everything else weâre going to talk about is so much simpler, but itâs just difficult because again, we feel the need to spread the message as far and wide as possible.
So, the next part of the process, the P, is to prepare your talk. Prepare your talk. So, this is where you get really, really clear on what is the solution that youâre providing to the problem that youâre going to be solving. And also, how are you going to do that?
So, that could come in the form of a keynote or workshop, in the form of a breakout or seminar, some type of training, coaching, consulting. Thereâs a lot of different things you could do there. And also thinking through do you do this in-person? Do you do this virtually, which Iâm sure we can talk a little bit about? So, preparing your talk.
The E is to establish yourself as the expert. Establish yourself as the expert. So, two key marketing assets that every speaker needs are you need a website and you need a demo video. Now, a website in this day and age in 2022, if you donât have a website, you donât exist. Itâs hard for people to take you seriously, so itâs important to have a website.
And then, a demo video, some people may be like, âOkay, what do you mean by that?â So, think of a demo video like a movie trailer. Before you would go see a movie, you want to see a movie trailer. You donât see the whole thing. Itâs just like I need to see two or three minutes. And so, in movie trailers, they take a 90-minute movie, a 2-hour movie, they boil it down to 2 or 3 minutes. Within those 2 or 3 minutes, you have an idea of whoâs in it, whatâs the plot, whatâs the theme.
And the goal of a movie trailer and the goal of a demo video is to make you want to see more. Because for an event planner, a decision maker whoâs considering hiring you, theyâre probably considering hiring you, and then theyâre also looking at 3, 4, 5 other speakers who may be a good fit for their event. And so, they donât have time to watch 30, 60-minute videos of a presentation or a talk. They just need to see a couple minutes to get a sense of who you are, what you talk about, whether or not youâd be a good fit for their particular event.
And so, thatâs what a demo video is, something that gives an event planner or decision maker confidence that if they hire you and you show up at their event that youâre going to do a good job for them. So, thatâs the E. Establish yourself as the expert.
The A is acquire paid speaking gigs. Now, this is the part that we want fast forward to of just like, âGrant, just tell me how to book gigs.â But if youâre not clear on who you speak to, whatâs the problem you solve, you donât have your marketing assets together, itâs going to be hard to book gigs. So, you want to have these things in place before you get to acquiring your paid speaking gigs.
Now, at this point, we want to do much more of a proactive effort than a reactive effort, meaning some people might make the mistake that, okay, I have my website. I have my demo video. And now, I just sit back and I wait for the phone to ring. And that doesnât work. Your website may be great. Your mom is thrilled about it. Sheâs going to tell both of her friends, but nobody else cares. And even just I think the mistakes sometimes speakers make is I post something on social media, and then I just assume people are going to magically find me. That doesnât work.
So, what we want to do is we want to have a system, a process to reach out to event planners, to decision makers, follow up with them and start conversation with them showing you can provide a solution to a problem that they already have. So, for an event planner, youâre not trying to convince them to hire a speaker. Theyâre already planning on hiring a speaker. Youâre just showing them why you are a good fit for their event.
And then, the last part of the process, K, is know when to scale. Know when to scale, meaning a lot of people who are interested in speaking is also interested in writing a book or coaching or consulting or doing a podcast or doing a course or doing any number of things. And so, you can do all the things, but you canât do all the things at once. So, some things are going to come first, some things are going to come last. And you got to be really, really clear about how does speaking fit into the mix of what it is that youâre trying to accomplish?
So, again, I know thatâs a lot of firehose stuff there I dumped on you, but thatâs like the high-level overview of the SPEAK framework that we teach in terms of how you get started as a speaker.
CAMILLE [15:06]
Yeah, no. I think that that was very interesting and it was very high level, but also thereâs a process to this and it doesnât happen overnight. So, I think that thatâs really good to know. Before thinking about what I would ask you, where are people playing for speakers and is there a hole in the market of maybe something that you see thatâs really wanted, but thereâs not a lot of? Just out of curiosity what does that look like?
GRANT [15:37]
Yeah. Really good question. So, if we go back to the first part of the process, the S, selecting a problem to solve, thereâs seven primary industries that hire speakers. Now, within this, thereâs dozens and dozens of subgroups and subcategories. And Iâll give you an example in just a second. But the seven are corporations, associations, faith-based and churches, non-profits, government and military, colleges and universities, and then education like K through 12.
So, again, within that, thereâs a ton of different opportunities that exist within all of those. And so, you would be amazed at the number of just groups that have some form of gathering. And sometimes we think of speakers as these large-scale big conferences or events or big keynote type of events, but there are thousands and thousands of events that happen on a daily basis that neither of us have even heard of.
So, let me give you an example. Thereâs a speaker we worked with recently who came to us. She went through one of our training programs. She was a veterinarian. And she has passion and love for animals. And so, we talked her through the process and hereâs what you need to do. And she went through our coaching.
She reaches out. Sheâs like, âHey, I just booked my first gig.â And I was like, âThatâs awesome. Tell me about the gig.â And she said, she was flying to Vegas to speak. Theyâre paying her $5,000 to speak at a pet sitting conference. And so, if sheâd come to me a few weeks before and said, âHey, I really want to focus on pet sitting. Do you think thereâs a big need there?â Iâd be like, âI wouldnât think so, but maybe.â But know since then, she spoke at that event and has spoken at multiple pet sitting conferences. Now, thereâs other animal veterinary related events that sheâs done, but all that to say there are so many different opportunities that exist for speakers of all different industries and all different genres and all different subjects and topics.
Now, what youâll have to be able to find though is whatâs the balance between what youâre interested in, what youâre knowledgeable on, what youâre passionate about versus what is it the organizations and groups actually hire speakers to talk about. Just because youâre passionate about something like, âHey, this is my story. This is something I want to share,â it doesnât mean necessarily anybody cares. And so, you have to find what is that overlap there between hereâs what Iâm interested in, but hereâs what organizations and groups actually pay for.
Now, to the other part of your original question, as far as what are the needs that maybe exist in the marketplace, maybe underserved type of industry that maybe I should focus on. And one mistake that speakers make sometimes is looking for those angles maybe where speakers arenât already there, meaning like, okay, I want to speak on the worldâs greatest expert on underwater basket weaving. And Iâm looking around and I canât find anybody else who speaks on underwater basket weaving. Iâm going to be first. This is going to be amazing. If nobodyâs speaking on that, thatâs usually not a good thing.
And so, what you want to find is some pre-established, pre-existing speakers who talk on certain subjects and topics and just prove that thereâs a market, thereâs an industry and this is something that event planners or decision makers are used to hiring speakers to talk about and to cover.
And so, sometimes speakers will say, âWhich of those industries or which of the topics get paid the most for? And where are the most opportunities that exist?â I tend to lean toward letâs focus more on what youâre interested in, what youâre knowledgeable on, what youâre passionate about, whereâs your connections, whereâs your experience. Letâs start there versus trying to figure out maybe thereâs opportunities over there, but itâs something like youâre not really interested in. Youâre not really passionate about. You donât have much knowledge on. You donât know anything about. You just donât really care about. That doesnât work. That doesnât make sense.
So, Iâll give you a quick example. When I got started speaking as a former youth pastor, I was like I know students well. I want to speak with students. And so, thatâs a lot of what I did. I did a ton of school assemblies, spoke at a lot of colleges, did a lot of student leadership conferences and events, spoke multiple times in Utah, where youâre at. And it was awesome.
Now, in the industry lineup there that I walked through, education and speaking to students is typically on the lower scale of compensation of what you could get paid. So, there are times where itâs like, man, Iâm a decent speaker. I can probably make more if I talked to any other group. But itâs like I wanted to speak to students. And thatâs something I knew I was good at, I was knowledgeable on, and I knew had good connections there and expertise and yada, yada, yada.
And so, even though I could have made more speaking in other places, and I eventually started doing some more with corporations and different other groups, but if I started the journey by saying just like, where are the most opportunities or where can I make the most money or where are the most underserved opportunities where maybe I could fill in? Then I donât think thatâs the best place to get started because I think itâs harder to make progress in that way versus going like, hereâs what I know. Here's what Iâm knowledgeable on. Now, letâs figure where this fits into the marketplace and the opportunities that already exist.
CAMILLE [20:40]
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I think with any type of business that you start if that passion of the why and who am I and what do I love? If thatâs not established, then youâre in trouble because thatâs something where you wonât be fulfilled. There wonât be that deep seated idea of this is why Iâm here. So, I think that that makes a lot of sense.
So, for someone whoâs starting out, letâs say that theyâve decided that they want to talk about how do they find the decision makers? Itâs interesting because Iâve done this on the flip side of working with a lot of brands and sponsors and things that Iâve done through influencing online and a lot of times, we go to the PR. You go to the PR or the media releases. Thatâs the backend or Twitter. So, what do people do for the speaking side of things? How do you get into the right inbox so to speak of whoâs email?
GRANT [21:34]
Yeah, good question. And so, speaking is very much a momentum business. And so, I think this is true for a lot of things. Thereâs a friend of mine who always says, âThe more you speak, the more you speak,â meaning when you speak, it tends to lead to other opportunities. And so, it leads to someone in the audience saw you or this event planner referred you to someone else or they bring you back for another event in the future. And so, it starts to have a compounding effect over time.
And so, a speaker that is doing quite a few gigs, itâs easier for them to get booked than a speaker who is going from zero to one and just trying to get that first one. So, just getting the ball rolling can feel very difficult. It feels like this uphill battle. But it can absolutely be done.
In fact, I was talking to a student the other day and they had joined a program about ten months ago. And I said, âTalk to me. How are things going for you?â And he said, âSince joining, Iâve booked 40 gigs,â which is crazy. Heâs like, âIs that normal?â âNo, thatâs crazy, man. Thatâs amazing.â But again, point being he really did work, buckled down, got after it, and has seen results.
And so, to your question where itâs like who do you reach out to? A lot of this comes back to again being really, really clear on who do you speak to and what problem youâre solving. Again, when speakers are like, âI speak to that audience and I speak to that audience and I can talk about this, but I can also talk about that,â then it starts to become this buffet, spray, and pray type of approach.
Iâm just going to reach out to a whole bunch of different people and see what sticks. Again, that just doesnât work versus if youâre really, really clear on, âI speak to this audience and I solve this problem and Iâm really clear on this is a need that exists within the marketplace.â This is something that event planners in this space hire speakers to talk about. Itâs a lot easier to star to get the ball rolling.
But again, the mistake that the speakers make sometimes is Iâm just sitting back and I click my heels together, I close my eyes really tight, and I hope people magically find out about me. So, if you think about, for example, you mentioned when youâve done some PR work before and some of these brand sponsorships. You can go about it in one of two ways.
You can just maybe put something on your website or maybe mention something on social media and you just hope that the right brands find out about you or we can go talk to those brands and we could reach out to those brands and itâs like start conversations of going, âHey, I have an audience that youâre trying to reach and letâs talk through different ways that we can work together.â
Itâs the same reason of the reason that weâre having this conversation right now is because we reached out and asked, âHey, are you looking for guests for your podcast?â And so, I mean I could sit back and I really hope Camille finds me in the sea of podcast guests that somehow this all magically works out. Or we can just reach out like, âHey, youâre looking for podcast guests. I know that you typically donât have dudes on this, but hereâs some different ways.â And I know that you even asked like, âHey, we donât have guys on this. So, how do you speak to a female audience?â And so, we talked through what that could look like.
So, the point being is being a lot more proactive rather than reactive and just hoping people magically find out about you, which I know it can be intimidating. That can be daunting. Itâs a lot easier just assuming I wish someone would just reach out to me, so I donât have to reach out to someone else. I totally get that.
I understand that, but I think also comes back to the one thing that we talk with speakers about is, is this a biz or is this a hobby? Because if itâs a hobby, youâre going to put hobby effort into it, but you cannot put hobby effort into it and expect business professional results. It just doesnât work like that.
Itâs like when someone asks sometimes, how long does it take to book a gig or to book 10 gigs or to be able to do this full-time? I like to use the analogy of how long does it take to lose 10 pounds? It depends. For some people, I guess you could lose it in, I donât know, a couple of days or a week, I donât know if thatâs healthy or not, but Iâm sure you can do it. For some people, it may take a month, several months. Some people, the whole year and they didnât make any progress. But it really comes down to the effort, the energy, the focus, the work that you put into it.
So, this student, this client that I mentioned, who booked 40 gigs in the past 10 months is because he was like, âHands down, Iâm going all in on this. This is what Iâm doing,â versus like, âIâm going to dabble in this, but Iâm going to dabble in that and weâll see.â And youâre not booking 40 gigs, but just dabbling and tinkering, which again if you just wanted to dabble and tinker, thatâs totally fine, but just make sure your expectations are aligned with if Iâm going to dabble and tinker, then in terms of effort, Iâm going to get dabble and tinker results out of it. So, I know we covered a lot of ground there. So, Iâll shut up.
CAMILLE [26:18]
No, that was really good. And Iâm curious what is that man speaking on that booked the 40? Iâm just curious.
GRANT [26:23]
Yeah. Heâs in the construction industry. And so, he works with construction companies on the systems and processes that they use within their business. Okay. So, this is what we work with speakers on as well is when an event planner or decision maker is hiring you, and this is true for any business, any product or service that you would offer, part of what theyâre hiring you for is to stand on the stage and deliver your message, to deliver your talk. But part of what theyâre hiring you for is to be really good to work with.
And so, think of this in other contexts, meaning if you go to a restaurant and the food is amazing, itâs just the best food youâve ever had, but the experience is just a disaster. You got to wait for a long time for your table. The service isnât that great. They messed up your drink order a few times. The wait staff is the rude. One thing came out cold, but when they brought it back, then it was really good. It didnât feel like it was priced well. If all these other elements about it are off, then thereâs like, man, the food was so good, but I donât know if I want to go back.
And so, the same thing is true with the speaker. If the speaker is amazing on stage, but theyâre a pain in the butt to work with. And by pain in the butt, I donât mean like theyâre a prima donna or theyâre a diva, I need my jar of red skittles, or anything like that, but theyâre just organized or sloppy. Itâs like it requires a lot of follow-ups. Theyâre not showing up on time to things. Theyâre dropping the ball on little things. Itâs not a great experience.
And so, in this guyâs case, heâs in the construction space, so one of the things they do is work with construction companies who maybe are great at building a house, but you also have to great at just all the elements of not building a house, of following up with your customers or your clients and being professional and doing what you say youâre going to do, those things. And so, he helps them just implement systems for their business.
CAMILLE [28:16]
Thatâs really cool. I think that thatâs a really neat perspective too because I think often, we think that we have to be the best speaker in the world, but thereâs other facets that go into it that make you a wonderful person to work with all around. So, I think that thatâs really good.
GRANT [28:30]
Yeah. Let me pick on that. So, again, you can think back to the restaurant example of just like, the foodâs so good, but yeah, but the experience sucks. And youâre just like, I just donât want to go back or itâs a long wait or whatever it may be. And so, the same thing is true with a speaker. For an event planner whoâs bringing in a speaker, the speakerâs one of hundreds if not thousands of moving pieces that theyâre trying to work with and juggle.
And so, we always tell speakers, the easier you are to work with, the more likely theyâre going to want to be to work with you. You just make their job simpler. And so, if youâre amazing on stage, but youâre a pain in the butt to work with, they donât want to work with you. Theyâre really good on stage, but it was just annoying to work with them versus just like if youâre amazing to work with, you can be above mediocre and be super, super successful. And so, being really great to work with off stage is as much about being a speaker as it is what you do.
CAMILLE [29:35]
Yeah. Tell me if you think that there is an it factor for someone being considered an amazing speaker, just on the stage. Is there an it factor or a commonality that you see with speakers that do exceptionally well?
GRANT [29:52]
Yeah, thatâs a great question. I think one of the things thatâs great about speakers is thereâs not necessarily like hereâs the five qualities that every amazing speaker has. Because on one end of the spectrum, you have someone like a Tony Robbins whoâs like this larger-than-life personality who bounces all over stage, whoâs high energy, whoâs loud. And thereâs some people who are like, I love it. I totally resonate with that.
But then, on the other end of the spectrum, you have like a Brene Brown, whoâs very quiet, whoâs soft-spoken, powerful, and strong, but you donât see her bouncing on the stage or jumping on trampolines or yelling or having everybody clap. And both are effective. Both works.
And so, I think whatâs really important is for speakers to be really, really true to themselves and not saying like, âOkay, that speaker is this way, therefore I need to do that or that speaker is really funny, therefore I need to be really funny or that speaker has some tragic overcoming obstacle story, and so I need to come up with own overcoming obstacle story.â Be true to yourself because itâs also important to remember as a speaker, you are a human talking to a collection of other humans. And so, act like a human. Donât try to be something that youâre not.
One thing that annoys me to no end is when you use a speaker who is overly polished and overly prepared and it feels like they are very, very robotic. And so, it feels like theyâre regurgitating a script. And so, then I say this and then I take five steps over here and I do this with my hands. And itâs just like, ugh, it just feels super, super formulaic versus just like youâre a human talking with the rest of us. Weâre all humans too. So, act like a human.
Now, thatâs not to say, just go up and wing it. Be a human. No, no, you want to be really polished and be prepared and deliver with excellence, but you donât want to be to the point where itâs just youâre robotic. And so, as far as what is the one it factor or the charisma that you need, I think the most important thing is to be yourself because thatâs ultimately what audiences will identify with and resonate with.
CAMILLE [32:03]
Okay. I like that. Any advice for overcoming fear, the moments before you go on or even the idea of putting yourself out there?
GRANT [32:15]
Totally, yeah. I think fearâs a normal, natural thing. And so, when I get up and speak, I still feel the same butterflies. And thatâs not a bad thing. I think that sometimes, it can be easy to confuse fear with excitement and adrenaline of just the moment that matters. And so, you think about other times where you felt something similar.
I think about for me, when I proposed to my wife or when my daughters were born or if I had a, I donât know, big job interview, something where youâre just like, dang, Iâm feeling those same butterflies. And itâs not that man, Iâm going to propose and sheâs going to say no or whateverâs going to happen. You just feel like, wow, itâs the bodyâs way of saying, âHey, heads up. This is important. This is a big deal.â And so, the same thing is true with speaking.
I think sometimes, just the adrenaline like this is a big deal. I want to make sure that I do well. So, what do you do to make sure that you can minimize that or not necessarily suppress that, but make sure that it doesnât become debilitating in any way?
And so, one of the best things that you can do is to not only recognize and realize that itâs normal, itâs common, it happens to everybody, itâs okay, but also just to make sure that you spend the time to practice and prepare. The best speakers on the planet, they donât just get up and wing it. They donât just scribble some thoughts in a napkin and hop up there and like, âIâm just going to throw some stuff out there and hope that it all works out.â
It doesnât work like that. They really spend a ton of time going over their material time and time and time again, so by the time they get up on stage, it looks like they may just be making it up, it looks like theyâre just rambling, but theyâve really thought about it, theyâve really thought about their word choice, theyâve really practiced and gone through the materials. Theyâre confident, but theyâre not robotic.
And so, a way to think about this is if we think back to high school, college, university, and itâs like taking an exam or a test. You could show up and just be like, yeah, Iâm just going to wing it. And the professor or the teacher is going to pas out the quiz or the test or the exam or whatever, youâre probably going to feel nervous and uncomfortable like, I donât know this stuff. I didnât prepare and youâre probably going to flunk that test.
And if you show up to a speaking gig and like, Iâm just going to wing it. And now, I get up there and quickly realize I donât know what Iâm doing, candidly, I hope you bomb. Because the audience deserve better than that. They deserve you to bring your best versus if you show up to a test or an exam and like, okay, Iâm really going to study. Iâm going to practice. Iâm going to go over my notes. Iâm going to review study questions. Iâm going to do all of the things.
And so, when you show up, I may still feel the butterflies, but at least I feel a level of confidence that Iâve done the work and Iâm ready for this. I may feel nervous, but thatâs okay. So, I think one of the best things that any speaker at any level can do is really spend the time to practice because it makes you feel a lot more comfortable and confident to step on stage.
CAMILLE [35:00]
Yeah. Thatâs really good advice. In our house, we have a coined term that we got from my sister, but itâs you are ânerxcitedâ like youâre nervous and excited or youâre âanxcietedâ which is anxious and excited. And so, when I talk to my kids even about that, Iâll say, âAre you feeling nerxcited? Youâre nervous, but youâre excited,â that first day of school or trying out for a new team or whatever it is because I think a lot of times, the language that we use of how am I feeling about this moment can translate into how we will approach and show up in that moment. So, if youâre thinking in your mind, Iâm nervous. Iâm scared. Iâm afraid versus Iâm excited, this is challenging, but Iâm here for it. I think that anxcited or nerxcited, we need a word like that. So, we use that one. So, youâre free to borrow that.
GRANT [35:46]
I think you build confidence over time. The first time you do anything, youâre going to feel nervous. The first podcast interview you do, you may just be like, I donât want to do it. I feel super nervous or uncomfortable or awkward or whatever, but you do it enough times. And okay, I may still feel some of that going into some of these, but I also know, all right, Iâve done X number of these before and I didnât die and nothing happened and itâs going to be okay.
So, I think the way you get better as a speaker, the way you get better as a podcaster, the way you get better as a writer is you do it. And sometimes, it goes well and sometimes, it doesnât. But you build levels of confidence that like, okay, youâve done this before. Youâve been here before. You didnât die. Itâs going to be okay.
CAMILLE [36:28]
Yeah, I love it. One thing thatâs really cool is that you do have a podcast, The Speaker Lab. And if you go to your website, thereâs actually a quiz that will tell you how much you should be charging if you want to be a speaker or what you can do. So, I thought that was really fascinating. I did that this morning. And tell our audience a little bit about that where they can find that and also connect with you.
GRANT [36:51]
Yeah, with that speaking fee calculator. And so, when people ask, how much should I charge as a speaker? The copout answer is it depends because thereâs a lot of variables and factors that go into it. But we put together that speaking fee calculator, itâs totally free. If you go to www.myspeakerfee.com, you answer ten or so questions, multiple choice questions, itâll spit out a number at you of what you should be charging as a speaker. And itâs much more art than a science, but it gives you a ballpark and gets you going.
And you mentioned The Speaker Lab podcast, so people who listen to this podcast probably listen to other ones. So, if youâre interested in speaking, definitely check out The Speaker Lab podcast. Weâve got over 400 episodes there on all different subjects, topics of speaking, speaking fees, what to speak about, interviewing a lot of speakers and hearing their journeys.
So, yeah, everything else that we do is over at The Speaker Lab. Weâve got a book called The Successful Speaker: Five Steps for Booking Gigs, Getting Paid, and Building Your Platform. And so, that really takes that SPEAK framework we talked about and goes into that a lot further. And so, yeah, thereâs a lot of stuff we can do to help and serve and support speakers.
CAMILLE [37:58]
Thatâs amazing. Thatâs free content that people can consume. You also have a course too, coaching. Is that right?
GRANT [38:03]
Yeah. So, if people go to www.thespeakerlab.com, you can schedule a call just to learn more about that. And so, yeah, you can take the book, the podcast, speaking fee calculator, you can dig into that. But if you want more coaching help, one of the things that we do within our program is we talk about website demo video. We create those for you. We find speaking leads specifically for you. We give you email templates and scripts of hereâs what you need to be saying. Hereâs how to reach out. Hereâs the CRM to use. And so, you can do it on your own. You can go DIY, which is totally fine. A lot of speakers do that. But if you want us to hold your hand and go in the journey with you, then thereâs options for that as well.
CAMILLE [38:42]
Grant, this has been amazing. You are a wealth of knowledge and I feel like all the information, itâs been a lot, but itâs been very approachable where itâs like if this is something you want to do, follow these steps and come to your website and your podcast. That is amazing. So, thank you so much for sharing all of your information with us and for being here today.
GRANT [39:03]
Thanks so much for letting me be here. This was a ton of fun.
CAMILLE [39:05]
Youâre welcome.
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CAMILLE [39:10]
Thank you so much for listening to todayâs episode. I wanted to tell you really quick that I spoke with Grant about women as professional speakers. And he said, âYes, more than ever, we need more women speakers.â And I was saying, as a mom, itâs hard. How do you get out? How do you set hours that work for you? And he said, âThe best thing about becoming a professional speaker is that you get to set the rules for yourself. Itâs really like starting your own professional business in that regard. You get to decide if you want to do weekends or only travel within a certain distance from your home or how many weekends out of the years youâd be willing to travel. So, donât limit yourself into thinking that this is not an option for you, but maybe decide how you want to design your life to work for you in that way.â
Now, if you are looking for more help as far as virtual assistants are concerned, I am now doing matchmaking with graduates from my 60 Days to VA program who are looking to help busy entrepreneurs like you. If that is something that you need help with, you can email me at callmeceopodcast@gmail.com or reach out to me on Instagram @callmeceopodcast or @camillewalker.co. I hope you all have a great day and I will see you next week. Thank you for tuning in.
Hey, CEOs. Thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment in a 5-star review. You could even have a chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram on @callmeceopodcast. And remember, you are the boss.
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Very interesting topic and outstanding presenter. Thanks for the chance to get better acquainted with the process of learning to monetize speaking opportunities.