Overcoming Entrepreneurial Anxiety & Creating a Joyful Business | Lianne Kim

LIANNE KIM [0:00]

What that’s telling me is they’re living a life that’s not in alignment with what they actually want. They’re doing things that they think they’re supposed to do as an entrepreneur. And I understand that because as entrepreneurs, we do things that the average moms don’t.

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CAMILLE WALKER [00:24]

So, you want to make an impact. You’re thinking about starting a business sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? We’ll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

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I am so excited for you to see this episode because it is all about creating a purpose-filled, joy-filled business as a mom and a business owner. Lianne Kim is the owner of Mamas & Co. and she’s going to walk with us how to overcome entrepreneurial anxiety and imposter syndrome. Let’s dive in.

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Call Me CEO. And today, we are talking about entrepreneurial anxiety, which we all have anxiety these days. I think that that’s something that post-pandemic or just coming out of the weeds of all that, there’s a lot of anxiety and mental health concerns that we have as humans, as parents for our children, and also especially as business owners, entrepreneurial anxiety.

And today, we are talking to the expert, Lianne Kim, who found that topic as a piece that she wants to dive into. I’m so excited about this. She’s the author of Building a Joyful Business and also the host of The Business of Thinking Big. So, thank you for being on the episode on this podcast today. I’m so excited to talk to you.

LIANNE [1:52]

Thank you so much for having me, Camille. I’m grateful to be here.

CAMILLE [1:57]

Yeah, please tell our audience about yourself and we, here, most of us are mothers, so please share your family and where you live and a little bit about you.

LIANNE [2:07]

Sure. So, my name is Lianne Kim. I live in Toronto, Canada. And I’m a mom of two little ones, Julia and Alex, my little monsters. And I started my business as a side hustle years ago because I’d just come off two back-to-back maternity leaves basically and here in Canada, we get these lovely luxurious one-year maternity leaves.

CAMILLE [2:34]

It’s amazing.

LIANNE [2:34]

Yeah, I know. We’re very spoiled. At the time, I had a corporate job and I liked it, but I didn’t love it. And so, I thought, sure, I’ll take the year. I’ll get to know my kids and I’ll see what I want to do next. And over that period, what I realized is that I wanted more time and more control over my time than how I spent it.

I was very good at specific things. I was in sales and marketing and I liked it, but as I say, I just felt like after having kids, I was looking for something that gave me more of that sense of purpose and fulfillment and also would allow me to take a Friday off if I wanted to take my kids to the zoo or a week off if we wanted to go to Disney and that just wasn’t the case with being employed.

So, I started this little side hustle business. My first business was an arts and crafts business actually. And while I had that business, I realized how much I didn’t know about self-employment. And so, I posted in this Facebook group, “Hey, are there any mamas here who have their own business and want to get together for a glass of wine?” And the response was huge. Seven women came out on that first night in a snowstorm in Toronto and I was like, okay, if seven mommas are going to come out in a snowstorm, that tells me that we are onto something. And it’s grown and grown and blossomed since then.

CAMILLE [3:59]

That’s wonderful. So, tell our audience what it is, what that community looks like, and where it is right now.

LIANNE [4:06]

Sure. So, back in the day, we did a lot of in-person meetups because that’s what I was craving at the time. Now, we’re almost eight years later. Everything we do is online. We have hundreds of members inside the Mamas & Co. community, which is where I teach, I coach, and basically inspire mamas to start and grow profitable businesses so they can live our wildest dreams.

We also have a team of mentors and growing team of coaches inside the community so that they can also share their knowledge and wisdom with newer mama entrepreneurs who are just starting out. And it’s such a magical space. I always say I had a membership before I even knew what memberships were. I had a community before that was even a thing. And now, yeah, we’re going to celebrate our 8th anniversary coming up fall of 2022. It’s very exciting.

CAMILLE [4:58]

Wow, that is so cool. I’m just starting now to offer coaching to women growing their business as virtual assistants as well as women growing their business and/or hiring virtual assistants. How do you do that, how do you grow a business? And man, the coaching world is so much fun. I love it so much, connecting with women one-on-one and helping them reach their goals. So, I am sure that there is so much that I can learn from you today as well as our audience talking with you.

One of the number one questions I get over and over is how do we create balance within our lives building a business, pursuing our passions, whether it’s a hobby or even going out to go to the gym or something that you hope to grow into something really large and what would your answer be to that?

LIANNE [5:45]

First of all, I think we have to embrace and be open to balance. A lot of people find that word triggering because it brings up this antiquates ideas of things needing to be perfectly in balance, which I am not a fan of anything that has the word “perfect” in it because I don’t believe that that exists.

But I do believe that balance exists and I did a podcast episode on this recently on my own show called A New Approach to Balance and I’ll happy share that to your listeners as well if you want to link to it on the show notes. But the concept that I shared is, let’s not let language get in the way of what we really want.

So, if the word “balance” doesn’t sound realistic to you or it doesn’t sound like what you’re looking for, then substitute that word for more joy. I think most of us would want to create more joy in our businesses and our lives. None of us got into this because we want to hammer away on our laptop day in and day out and be a victim to other people’s needs and desires.

And so, I am a real fan of, if you want it, you’ve got to prioritize it, you’ve got to get it on the calendar, and then you’ll have to ask for the help that you need to get it. So, from very early on, when my babies were babies, my sister gave me some great advice. She said, “Ask daddy to do bath time.” And I was like, “Why?” She’s like, “Because it’s the one thing that you don’t have to do. And it’s in the evening and he can do it when he gets home from work.”

And I thought that’s interesting. She said, “If you want him to be more involved as a partner, then you have to ask from it from day one, and then it just becomes a habit. But if you tried to implement it later, you’ve built up these bad patterns.” And so, she was right. From day one, I asked him to take on bath time, asked him to take the kids. I’m very clear on I need my me time, so we book babysitters often.

They’ve been in day care because for me, day care equals balance. Day care equals me having time for me to do what I love. And so, I think we have to be open to asking for help. We have to be open to paying for help, which as you know, in the virtual assistant world is so critical when we can just get to that point of being open to receiving help and investing in help. It’s a different way of thinking, but once we get there, it’s game changing and I could go on about this balance forever, but there’s a couple of pointers in there.

CAMILLE [8:23]

Yeah. I really appreciate that. It’s funny because a lot of times, the women that I’m coaching who need to grow their business and get the help of a virtual assistant, they really have a hard time with trust and knowing when is the right time and how to make those steps. And oftentimes, that’s really what that part of the coaching comes in is where I help them go through those steps of what do you need to be able to let go and how do you want to structure your time and identify the white space in your life? Because I feel like that’s where we can find that balance is when we give ourselves room to breathe and to live the way that we want to live.

LIANNE [9:05]

Absolutely. If we want it, we have to claim, it, we have to ask for it, and then we’ve got to plan for it. That’s the only way that’s going to happen. No one’s going to give it to us. You’ve got to be willing to do the work.

CAMILLE [9:16]

That’s so real. And I love the part of asking your partner or your spouse for that help in the beginning is such good advice. And if you’re listening to this now and thinking, “Gosh, dang it. Why didn’t I think of that?” it’s not too late. I think that there are so many situations where if presented with love and honesty, where everyone’s well-rested, well-fed and it’s a moment of true connection with your spouse or partner that you can talk about the division or responsibilities and what you need that there is space to make transitions and to move out of those old or perhaps imbalanced habits. Would you agree?

LIANNE [10:02]

100%. And not only that, but it’s a great habit to get into and you’ll need it more down the line. So, when my business was first starting out, my husband was the primary breadwinner. My business was more of a hobby, and then pretty quickly, we did grow to rely on my revenue. Now, I make more than he does.

And so, what’s important about that is that my availability has shifted. I don’t work a ton of hours, but when I do, I have to be extremely focused. I’m running a team now. So, they require my time and attention whereas his responsibilities in his own career have not grown that much. In fact, we’ve just had a conversation about this. Talk about awkward conversations.

We just had a conversation about this the other night and what came up was he’s perfectly content having those extra hours to be with the kids and to help me and support me so that I can go and grow my dreams. He’s not in a phase of his life where he’s looking to grow his own career at max capacity.

So, it was helpful for us to have that conversation because it almost gave me permission to continue on the growth trajectory that I’ve been in on. And I think it’s important to just also check in with your spouse, check in with the key people in your life. See how they’re feeling about your own growth. Not that I think that anyone else’s opinion should hold us back and this ties into the entrepreneurial anxiety.

A big part of how we are shaped is by the people around us. Their thoughts and opinions, their energy levels, and sometimes these things can really go unsaid and it can build and build. And this is one of the problems with anxiety is it festers and it grows. And if we don’t deal with stuff, if we don’t have conversations about stuff, if we don’t ask for help in some of these areas, then we burn out. And that’s really a worst-case scenario of entrepreneurial anxiety, but it’s very, very real.

And I’ve coached many six and even seven figure business owners through burnout and coming back from burnout. And it’s something that I think if we can avoid it, if we can avoid burning out by putting in healthy habits, by putting in good practices, that’s what we want to do.

CAMILLE [12:30]

I would love to hear what are common questions or burnout phases that people that you’ve coached have gone through and how do you help them reverse that stage of burnout so that they can thrive?

LIANNE [12:43]

Yeah, that’s definitely some warning signals. So, I’ll try to think about some conversations I’ve had in my coaching work. Women will tell me things like, “These days, I just don’t feel like getting out of bed. Every time I think about work, I start to stress out. I can feel myself, my shoulders up around my ears. I can feel that my breathing is shallow.”

So, a lot of times, women are very in-tune with their bodies and how their bodies are responding to stress, but they don’t necessarily call it entrepreneurial anxiety. They’ll say things like, and this is more from my earlier stages is like, “I don’t know where the next client’s going to come from. I got all this work. I’m going to have to put out all this content.” It’s all the have tos, got tos, shoulds, we hear that a lot.

What that’s telling me is they’re living a life that’s not in alignment with what they actually want. They’re doing things that they think they’re supposed to do as an entrepreneur. And I understand that because as entrepreneurs, we do things that the average moms don’t. How many moms do you see at the school pick up or at the playground that are recording selfie videos for social media? I don’t see it. I don’t see it at all that much unless they’re my fellow mompreneurs.

And so, we forget that some of the things that we’re asking ourselves to do day in and day out, these are big things. And they do push us out of our comfort zone. And so, I think if I can give your listeners any advice, it’s be listening for those signs of overwhelm, of stress. Again, often it shows up as a dislike of how you’re spending your time or like I don’t really want to sit down and do XYZ. I really don’t want to do a day of coaching calls. I really don’t want to record podcasts. I’m just not feeling it right now. Those are the little signs.

And then, some of the bigger signs are things like our loved ones call us out. We push people away because we’re so stressed. For me, a big one is when I’m up to here with stress and anxiety, I dump other problems on my partner. So, we recently had some issues with some home repairs that were unforeseen and I just didn’t feel like I could take that on. So, instead of dealing with it and having conversations, I just said, “You need to deal with this.”

So, the bigger signs are things like trouble in our relationships, feelings of immense loneliness, feelings like nobody understands us. Unfortunately, I’ve coached women who do become diagnosed with depression, bipolar and that’s obviously if things are getting to that point, we need to take it seriously and seek medical help, but I do think there’s a lot that we can do before things get to that stage of being clinical. There’s a lot that we can do to create coping strategies so that we’re not living with this anxiety day in and day out. And we can talk about what some of those are practices are for you, for me, I’m happy to share.

CAMILLE [16:00]

Yeah. I would love to. I think that there are a lot of things that I just heard you list that are so relatable especially when it comes to we’ve all been through different phases of our business where we’ve felt that feeling of dread where you’re just like, ugh, I don’t even want to get out of bed today. I just want to phone it in and watch Netflix or whatever it might be or just snuggle my kids or things like that.

And so, that is so relatable. We’ve all been there and I’m getting to the point of feeling like you need a mental health professional involved, that is something that is so real and so relatable too. So, let’s break it down and work through that of what are some good steps to take so that hopefully you don’t get to the place of needing mental help so that you can thrive in the process?

LIANNE [16:54]

Yeah. This is a great question. So, I do talk about this a little bit in my book which is ironically called Building a Joyful Business and it really is about building a joyful life as well. So, I think step number one is to get clear on what a joyful business and life looks like for you. Far too many of us are just settling for what we have. We feel like I built this thing. I have to live with it and that’s just simply not true.

So, what does joy look like for you? What does freedom look like for you? How many hours a week do you want to be working? Who do you want to be serving and how do you want to be serving them? These are questions that we should be revisiting on a regular basis and I think once we can create that clarity or ourselves, then we can go about taking the steps to get there. But if we don’t know what a joyful successful life looks like for us, it’s going to be impossible to get there to make that change happen.

CAMILLE [17:52]

I love that you said to revisit it because as women especially we go through different seasons and different capacities in our life depending on if we’re pregnant, nursing, toddler, potty training, that’s it’s own job or if we have teenagers that emotionally need our time and attention, there’s just different phases where you know that that changes. And so, revisiting it, I love that idea. Would you say that it’s something you should revisit quarterly or more often?

LIANNE [18:26]

I would say maybe twice a year. And good times for me, I don’t know about you, but I feel like a natural pause around this time of year that we’re recording, so June, July for me is like my slowest time of year. And I’m usually gathering my thoughts to think about our next season. And the season for us I think of it starting in August and it runs all the way until the end of May. That’s our busy season.

So, for me, this is a great time to pause and think, what do I want that next full season to look like? And then, I would say another time for me would be around the holiday time. So, at the midway point in the year, again my year I think of my year as almost like the school year, but it’s the middle of that cycle where we’ve already completed the busy fall season and I think that it’s a great time as well to pause and look at your family life.

So, every December, we sit down as a family and we talk about trips we wanted to take, goals we want to achieve as a family, I’ve done dream boards and vision board exercises with my kiddos. Although we don’t do that stuff all the time, but that’s a beautiful time of year to just take stock.

And if you do have these entrepreneurial mompreneur anxiety coming up, I don’t want us to feel like that’s a failure or a bad person because we’re not feeling joyful all the time, but see that as a sign that you got to check in with yourself and figure out what it is we want to do differently.

I call this in my business, I don’t like the word goals because I feel like they’re very vague, I use the term desired end results or DERs. What are those DERs for you? And then, once we have that clarity, then let’s go about putting a plan in place so that we can get there. And that’s where the real fun part starts in my opinion. So, I do this for myself as I say couple times of year, but I do it with every single coaching program I run is always day one of the coaching program is envisioning. And I get these women dreaming big and thinking big because again, if we don’t have the courage to dream it or get clear on it, we can’t possibly make it happen.

CAMILLE [20:44]

Absolutely. I love that because anything that becomes an action first needs to be a thought and an intention. So, how are you going to get there unless you know what that is and identifying it for yourself? So, awesome. Okay. So, we have our DER and what do we do next?

LIANNE [21:02]

It really does depend what is not working. If you’re in the state of overwhelm, I think there’s quite a few strategies that can help and depending on where everyone’s at. The big ones I see are commitment to the things that we want first and foremost.

So, for me, one of the things that I found is when I start my day with physical activity 20 minutes a day, I get more done. I’m more focused. I feel more myself and then I also still have energy at the end of the day to give to my loved ones. When I don’t, and this was happening to me in the early days of my business, especially I live in Toronto, so it’s cold half of the year and I found myself I would just avoid it and I wouldn’t leave the house and I’d stay glued to the computer.

And those times, I gained weight. I felt lethargic. I wasn’t feeling like myself and therefore I couldn’t possibly give my best to my clients or my family. So, that’s a big one for me is prioritizing wellness strategies.

For me, it’s 20 minutes of movement every morning. For you, it might look like something different, but we can’t possibly serve others if our bodies are breaking down. It doesn’t matter how much we have going on up here between the ears, if the rest of our body is falling apart and unfortunately, I see this way too much with female entrepreneurs that are successful, yes, they built those 7-figure business, but it’s come at a cost.

And for me, that was a trade-off I wasn’t willing to make. And the same goes for time with my family. If what you truly want is more time with your kids to be a present and engaged mom, then you have to commit to that.

And for the longest time, I’ll tell you something that I’m going through in my own life, my kids are right now 10 and 8, so they’re going into grade 4 and 5. And in a year, they’re going to be starting middle school. And when they were toddlers, I just didn’t love the toddler phase. I enjoyed that we had them in before and after school care, but now as I see they’re growing up and I have more fun with them, I want more time with them.

So, we are pulling them out of day care for the first time in their entire lives starting in the fall. And that’s because I really want to do those afterschool things with them. I want them to help me with cooking dinner and that for me, that time with them is sacred. So, what I don’t do is commit to having time with them, and then I’m on Instagram or trying to work while I’m momming.

That’s a big one for me. Yes, we need to do all of the things, but we don’t have to do them all at once. So, I’m either doing this with you right here up until 4 or 5 PM, depends on the day, I’m working. And then, at 5 PM, I close my laptop. I shift into mom mode as best I can. It’s not always possible. Sometimes, you take some stuff of the day with you, but I really try to be in one mode at a time, either mom mode or work mode but never both because you’re just going to give yourself more feelings of overwhelm and we’re failing at all the things.

But if you just choose one thing and that’s the thing that you’re doing in the moment, then it’s a lot easier to stay on track and stay focused. So, those are just the few of the things that I end up coaching quite a few people on, to be honest with you.

CAMILLE [24:39]

I think that there’s a couple of things that come to my mind for me here is that we live in such an amazing time where we can work from home and we have access to a compute or whatever it is that helps us to do our job. However, that can come with the easiness of being distracted as well. And so, really defining those times can make a huge difference with being able to focus and prioritize and get the things done. Are there certain tactics that you have people put into play to help them divide the time so that they’re not slipping into blending the two together?

LIANNE [25:20]

Absolutely. So, I do talk about this. There’s a whole chapter on schedule in my book because so many people ask me for time management tips and productivity tips and I’ve got them, but the biggest thing is deciding on your schedule.

Having a schedule and then sticking to it, so for me, I am mentally the sharpest in the morning. So, I tend to have more creative time, content creation time in the mornings and then things that don’t require that same amount of presence, I move those to the afternoon.

And then, another thing when I think of schedule, everyone loves when I share this tip. Have certain days where you are client-facing and other days where you’re behind the scenes working on your business and not in it. When I made that shift, that was a gamechanger for me because it allowed me to just focus on one thing during that period of time. The real thief of productivity is what we call context switching. So, it’s doing 17 things in a given work day as opposed to just picking one or two and really getting those things done well.

So, that is a biggie for me. Start to divide your days, your hours. If you only have 5 hours a week to work on your business because you’re a full-time mama or because you’re working full-time, that’s fine, but then block off those 5 hours and protect the hell out of them because again, it’s like no one’s going to give you that time back.

You have to make it for yourself and this was just one of those things I also learned about myself. I need to see my schedule. I can’t have it in a phone or in an app. In fact, you can probably see, so I have to wear glasses now, I’ve lost my close-up vision after I turned 40. It was like I turned 40 and the eyesight was gone, so one of the things that I’ve committed to is spending less time on the screens and enjoying nature more, being out, looking at other things. And so, if I have my schedule on my phone, then my nose is in my phone all the time. I don’t have it with me or I’d show you. I have this massive book and it’s old school paper day timer.

CAMILLE [27:36]

I’ve got mine right here.

LIANNE [27:39]

And I love the feeling of writing in it and seeing all my appointments for the week laid out. Actually, on the note of screens, it was my husband’s birthday last week and I bought him a Kindle and he was like, “This is fine, but I read books on my phone.” And I said, “Yes, but you also work on your phone. And our kids see you on your phone.” I said, “We have to think about what this is telling our kids who are nearing the age of getting phones. I don’t want them to think that it’s totally normal to be on our phones all time, if you’re looking at a Kindle.”

And so, all this to say it’s like differentiating different tools for different times. I’m coming to you from my own dedicated office, which I’m blessed to have thank goodness. And during COVID and lockdowns, I was up here with the door closed as much as I possibly could. I’m so grateful.

But yeah, one of the things that I’ve always done is when the workday is done, I close this laptop. I leave and I close the door and I don’t go back in for any reason until the following morning when my workday begins.

So, even just having a little end of day ritual or beginning of day ritual will put you in that feeling tone of this is what I’m here to do. As soon as I leave this office for the day, I know that I’m in mom mode. I’m actually one of those weirdos that enjoy cooking. I like to eat healthy. We grow some of our own herbs.

And so, it’s become a bit of a family thing, but I’m very careful that if that’s what I’m doing, I’m also not running up here checking for that final email. And, of course, there’s going to be times where you can’t always stick to everything 100% and I think that’s a strategy too is just giving yourself a little grace when you can’t be 100% the mom entrepreneur that you want to be and giving yourself that forgiveness as well.

CAMILLE [29:37]

Yeah. I love that so much because I think that there’s something when we create a physical change of location or the actual physical tool that we’re using, it signals to our brain that, okay, you’re stating this or you’re needing this.

There was a ritual that I haven’t been doing recently, but I did for a few years before that was at the end of the night, once the kids are in bed, I will light a candle for myself that it’s like this is my getting ready for bed. That ritual of slowing down and letting my mind decompress and the lighting of the candle was such a little brain shift of me of like, okay, now I get to tone it down and have some alone time or some special time with my husband or whatever it is that it’s like you’re transitioning from the business of the day to the calm and to the introspective time of the night, which I think is really beautiful.

So, I love that you say that. I’m really lucky too because in this room down here, my podcast room, I shut the door and I’m out of there. So, for those who are listening and thinking, “I love all these steps, these are so many good tools,” I think for me, taking on any new habitual change is something I need to do one little step at a time. So, one of my favorite books is Atomic Habits where it’s like a very small change to a positive behavior you have. Is that something that you try to do as well?

LIANNE [31:14]

Absolutely. Rituals, routines, habits, all of these things are so critical not just to our success but our life enjoyment. And actually, I’m known for saying, it’s not the things that we do once in a while that make us who we are, it’s the things that we do every single day.

And so, something’s important to you, it’s not enough to just say, “I want to do it or I hope it happens,” it is about turning it into a habit. And I love the candle ritual that you shared because sleep for me is also pretty sacred. I’ve always needed a lot of sleep. I’m an 8-hour a night girl and I have a bedtime routine. Again, it’s like I know that I’m a better entrepreneur mama when I am well-rested.

And so, I think it just comes back to who do you want to be and what’s the life you want to live? How can you start to carve that out in little ways now? Because I think you’re right. I think a lot of people will look at the vision and go, that seems so far from where I am right now. How will I get there? And we let the how stop us from trying, but really, it’s about pick one thing that you really want.

If what you want is more energy, choose one thing that you can do every day that will help you feel more energized. And actually, I do this in my group coaching programs, they make commitments to what they’re going to focus on. And a lot of them will say, “If I could just meditate for 5 minutes a day, I know I’m going to be a better person.”

And so, again, it’s not the wanting of it or talking about it, it’s the committing to it, and then carving out that time and protecting above all else. For me, when it comes the things like my morning walk, my meditation time, my visualization time, nothing except maybe an emergency call from the school is going to pull me away from that. And I think that’s really the key is what do you need to do to make sure that that happens every day?

So, I’ll give you an example. When my kids were little, waking up and doing that, my morning routine, my visualization work, I’d call it mindset work, for myself sometimes didn’t happen because I was worried that if I got up, I’d wake them up, and then they’d bother me. And then, I wouldn’t be able to do it.

But starting when they were around probably 4 or 5 like pretty young, I just had an honest conversation with them and I said, “I know that if you hear me, you’re going to want to come and see me, but I need you to not come downstairs until 7 AM because that’s mommy’s time.” And even as young as 4, they understood it and they listened and they followed along because they understood that it was what I needed.

So, I think we have to give our kids, our partners more credit. And again, it’s about asking for their support in the life that we want to create. And also, I’ll give you a side tip. How can you show them that it’s actually going to benefit them? Because if they can see that it’s going to make their lives better, they’re probably going to want to do it, but if it feels like they’re sacrificing something just for you, it’s not as meaningful to them.

CAMILLE [34:38]

Yeah. I totally agree with that. That’s something that with my kids as I’ve built my business the last 10 years, it’s very much been involved with my kids and them seeing what I do and them being part of the creation process too because I have a blog, www.mymommystyle.com, that I’ve done for the last 10 years and many of the blog posts and social engagements and things like that included them.

And so, I think that’s been one of the biggest things that when people asked, “How do you do this with kids? How are you able to do this with kids?” And I say, “I talk to them about it and that it’s a team effort, whether they’re in the scene so to speak or not.” It’s something that helps our family grow. And has afforded us opportunity. And so, it’s been really cool.

And I think that you’re right that our kids and our partners want that for us. A lot of times, they just need to understand it, taking the time to have those conversations for the space to grow and to have that time alone or whatever it is that you need. So, I love that so much.

One thing I wanted to ask you just shifting gears a little bit before we end is talk to me about impostor syndrome. What is it that you help women with when combatting impostor syndrome? Because I think the mom guilt and the impostor syndrome, those are like the top two things that most women entrepreneurs are dealing with. So, let’s talk about that for a minute.

LIANNE [36:06]

Yeah. So, impostor syndrome is one of those things that creeps up at all levels, but it’s really prevalent in the I would say first year or two of business. It’s that little voice in the back of our head saying, “Who’s going to care what I have to say or I don’t know enough to create a course. I don’t know enough to coach people. I don’t know enough to have a podcast.”

And it is universal and yet when we’re going through it, we think we’re all alone. So, just before this recording, I was out for a walk enjoying the day and I had a Voxer message from one of my clients. She’s in my group coaching program and we’re very early on, she said, “I know I said my 90-day goal was going to be to launch my first course, but I’m feeling like I don’t have the experience with such and such yet to create a course. So, what if I just did this instead?”

So, impostor syndrome shows up in all kinds of ways. It’s the thing that’s stopping us from going for it. It’s the voice of reason that says, “You’re not there yet. You can do that later, but stay where you’re at right now because it’s comfortable here.” It’s the looking at what other people are doing, and then telling ourselves, they can have that because they have XYZ, but I don’t have that.

So, again it’s a part of entrepreneurial anxiety and it creates a separation between us and others that I think is understandable, but I think once we know that everyone goes through it, then we can take steps to getting over that.

And the biggest step that I know of is experience. If you’re not feeling like you’re not the expert, go do something that’s going to make you feel like the expert. If you’re feeling like you can’t have a podcast, go be a guest on someone else’s podcast and start talking about your expertise. Because before you know it, that’s how we get over the fear of not being an expert is by just being one, by taking those steps, big or small.

Oftentimes, it looks like answering the call. So, an opportunity will come into my lap, maybe it’s an area that I don’t feel quite ready for, but it’s presented itself to me. It used to happen a lot where people would say, “do you coach on this or can you speak to my group on this?” And I’d go, “Gosh, I really feel like I’m not equipped, but yeah, let’s do it.” And I’ll go and learn the pieces that I don’t know.

It’s a big part of being in a coaching or consulting or service-based business is they’re buying you. So, you’ve got comfortable stepping into the spotlight and growing as a human being if you want to be successful as an entrepreneur, I think.

CAMILLE [38:54]

Yeah. I agree with that. It’s that whole mantra of fake it until you make it, which I think a lot of us, it’s a process of figuring it out and you can’t figure it out unless you’re in action. So, I love that so much because it’s so relatable. I think a lot of times, having someone in your corner like a coach or someone that you trust that can help you with getting over those hurdles of mental blocks is huge. So, this has been so wonderful. I appreciate the time that you’ve spent with us and I would love for you to share how our audience can be in touch with you. I know you have a book offer for them. So, let’s hear about that.

LIANNE [39:34]

Yes. First of all, if you enjoy podcasts, then you should definitely be listening to mine. It’s called The Business of Thinking Big and you can find it on Apple Podcasts app or anywhere you listen to your podcasts.

The next thing is I want to share it with your listeners how they can get a free copy of my book. So, there it is. It’s called Building a Joyful Business. It’s 237 pages of your blueprint to a successful business and life. More importantly, how to experience more wealth, more abundance, more joy and there’s some great exercises that are built right into the book.

Do you remember we were talking about clarity? So, if you’re looking to get more clear on your vision, then literally you just get a copy of the book, and then you work through the exercises in your own time and I think it’s really going to help. And we are giving your listeners a free copy. They just need to pay the nominal shipping fee, so they head to www.liannekim.com/book and enter the promo code “CEO” when they do the book. It willl be free and just pay the shipping fee and you’ll have the book within a week or so. Your very own copy.

CAMILLE [40:43]

That’s awesome. That’s so exciting. I appreciate this time, Lianne. It’s been fantastic. I feel like we’ve covered so much so ground. So, thank you for being on the show today.

LIANNE [40:54]

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

CAMILLE [40:57]

You’re welcome.

[MUSIC]

Hey, did you hear the news? 60 Days to VA is no longer something you have to wait for to enroll. I’m actually starting to bring on students one by one. It’s a very personal interaction where I do a discovery call with you to see if 60 Days to VA is a good fit for you because in the end, on the flip side of things, I’m starting to do matchmaking with CEOs who are looking to hire virtual assistants.

So, if that’s something that you feel like is a good fit for you, you want to become your own boss and start a business that you can do on your terms and with your schedule so you can spend that purposeful time with your kids, reach out to me. You can book your time at www.camillewalker.co or you can DM @camillewalker.co or @callmeceopodcast and we can set up a time to chat. I can’t wait to talk with you.

Thank you so much for tuning in to today’s episode. If you have not subscribed yet, please do so and also know if you are looking for help in coaching with building your business or growing your business by taking on new assistants in your business, please reach out to me. That’s the coaching that I do for women in business every single day. I can also help you build your own virtual assistant business if you’re looking for a way to build a business from home where you can still have the flexibility of being with your kids in those special important moments. I hope you enjoyed this episode and I will see you next time.

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