SETTING UP A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS FROM THE START | TATIANA TSOIR

TATIANA TSOIR [0:00]

When I make a choice today, I want to leave myself a choice for the future.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE WALKER [0:11]

So, you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business sharing your voice? How do women do it that handle motherhood, family, and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE [0:33]

They say accounting is the language of business, but what if accounting is a foreign language to you? Well, my guest, Tatiana Tsoir, has spent the last 15 years helping small businesses get more profit, stabilize their cash flow, and be proactive in lowering their taxes by teaching you the language of taxes and business. She is the recent author of Dream Bold, Start Smart, which is to help each business start with a financial foundation to set you up for success. What I love about Tatiana is that she loves to help you make more money and save you time by helping you start smart. So, let's dive in and figure out how you can be the master of your future by making that right step towards creating your successful business.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE [1:21}

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Call Me CEO. And today, we are going to dive deep into success from the start with Tatiana Tsoir, who is the author and CPA, we're including that because that's super cool, the author of the book Dream Bold, Start Smart. It's all about creating a financial foundation that you can build upon, but also being ready to go after the thing. So, Tatiana, I am so excited to talk to you today. Thank you so much for being here.

TATIANA [1:49]

Thanks so much for having me on. I'm excited to be here.

CAMILLE [1:51]

Now, I was reading through your bio before we got started here today and you wear a lot of hats. You're a mom. You have a course teaching people how to be bookkeepers. You also just authored a new book and you've been a CPA for years building a firm and, my goodness, so many incredible things. Can you take us to the beginning of when you started your journey and how you got into the accounting field?

TATIANA [2:14]

Sure. So, I actually wanted to be a lawyer for as long as I could remember. And so, I think about 14, I found out what a lawyer means, what a lawyer does, people work, contracts, fun stuff, advisory. And so, I actually went to law school back in Belarus for a couple of years. And there, it's like a combination of the undergrad and grad program. And so, it's a five-year program. So, I've done two years out of that. And then for the summer, I came to the United States and things worked out in a way that I stayed. I stayed and I transferred in a college in the U.S.

And as you know, a law degree is a graduate degree, so you need a Bachelor's before you can get to the law school. And so, I figured, "Okay. I'm going to go finish my Bachelor's, transfer some credits." And the time came when I needed to pick a major. And so, I've been thinking about it like, "Should I do it quick and do economics or should I do accounting?"

Law schools don't really like accountants and accounting didn't seem like it really fits my personality at the time. But what I realized was I was actually at that time working as a secretary and the bookkeeper at work was giving me some stuff to enter in QuickBooks and so it was easy enough and I decided. I was by myself. There was nobody else to financially support me to pay for my rent or anything like that. And so, I decided I'm going to choose accounting because this is a skill that I can learn and I can support myself through college by doing bookkeeping and accounting and also after college support myself through law school.

And so, I picked accounting and I met a very interesting professor. Actually, the first professor that I took in accounting was terrible. And after the first lesson, I knew everything about his family, that he has a house in Manhattan Beach in New York and stuff. So, it wasn't fun, but I learned on my own. And so, the second accounting course that I took was with a very influential professor. She had two PhDs. She worked as an investment banker for J.P. Morgan for 10 years. And she said something that really I connected with and she said that excellence is a matter of choice, so is mediocrity. And I thought, "Wait a second. I don't want to be mediocre. I want to be excellent."

So, I started studying ahead of class. I would read the chapter before it's covered in class and it would all click. And basically, in my college, which was interesting which is not the case for all colleges, the accounting department was very strong. And they really brainwashed us to say, "Well, if you're majoring in accounting, you might as well sit for the CPA exam." And I thought, "Maybe I should." And so, I set the goal to just get it done and majored in accounting, took 60 credits or something was the requirement, and decided to sit for the CPA exam.

And somewhere in between, I worked full-time for the first few years in college. And then, my job couldn't accommodate the schedule that I wanted. And so, I had to quit and find five businesses that didn't need me for the entire week. Someone needed me for a day. Someone needed me for two days. Someone did for every other week. And so, I was able to build my own schedule and become a time manager for myself essentially while going to school full-time. And hours wise, I was working full-time if not more. And basically, I was learning concepts in school and applying them the next day at work and that was clicking.

And so, somewhere in between, I fell in love with numbers. I saw how impactful bookkeeping is for a small business. Many people, business owners and accountants equally, consider bookkeeping, they look down on that job. And I've gone through that throughout my career also for a couple of years where I was like, "I'm not a bookkeeper. I'm an accountant. I'm a CPA." But then, I realized that bookkeeping is such a huge part of a small business and it's a cornerstone of a small business.

If you have properly done bookkeeping, you make sure you get all the abstractions. You make sure you stay out of the trouble with the IRS. If you have properly and timely done numbers, you understand how to make decisions using those numbers in your business. So, I get the chance to work with five businesses at the time where they were different industries. The owners were of different leadership styles. And so, I learned what things work and what things don't work and how to navigate around those things best. And it really has been a transformational experience, which is why now I can be a real adviser to other small businesses because I have all that experience that I've seen.

CAMILLE [7:07]

That's really fascinating. A couple of things I wanted to comment on. First of all, I love that you say that they brainwashed you to take the CPA exam because that's so funny, I don't know, just to say that. But I'm glad they did have you do that. Another thing that's really funny is so my husband is a CPA and he actually works at a law firm, believe it or not, but he's the account executive for the whole firm. So, he's over the management department, the finance, and everything else. So, it's funny that he married the accounting and law firm and brought it together and it's a really unique pocket to be a part of. He's in the ALA. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the ALA, but it's the Association of Legal Administrators

But what I love is that bookkeeping and accounting is the language of business. If you understand it and you do it well, you will succeed. And I love that that is what you are all about is that it's about those basics. It's about creating that foundation, so that you feel strong and that you understand. And I know that that's something that you speak to specifically for women is how it can be a struggle there. And why do you think that's the case that that is something that women sometimes feel left behind or that they are maybe not up to speed of knowing the language of business or accounting as it is?

TATIANA [8:25]

I think that we are often intimidated by this entire idea of money and taxes and numbers. And we're not taught how to manage that in plain English. We're taught some academics. We're taught some concepts, but nobody ever teaches you to really apply it in life. And if your parents were also never taught, then they manage money and taxes also sporadically and they don't have a strategy and there's no really tracking of the expenses. There's no budget or anything like that. Who budgets really? Who spends time on creating a budget for the family?

So, I think as girls, as women, we grow up and we don't really have a strong urge to do that. Plus, I think math isn't taught in a way that actually creates passion and/or love for it. I grew up loving math. And so, my dad loved math. He was really good at it. So, when I grew up, he forced me to love math. And then, I ended up loving it.

And so, I think that it starts with math. Although accounting and bookkeeping in and of itself, they don't really require huge math knowledge. It's plain algebra adding a few numbers together. But still, a lot of people have these myths. And I think we as women often share them that oh, in order to do business well, usually what I see is I need to be a mathematician, which isn't true or I can set it aside and let somebody else deal with it or work itself out. And then, everybody else has got it together, so it's just going to happen for me. I'm just not going to pay attention to it.

CAMILLE [10:05]

No. I think you're bringing up a good point and a lot of it, we've had a few episodes on the podcast where we've talked about the psychology around our budget and the psychology around spending and how that can be so tied up into our upbringing or perhaps trying to give ourselves therapy through spending. That is something that is encouraged in media. It's like, "Oh, what did you buy at Target?" and "How much money did you spend?" and "Oh, well, hundreds of dollars." And it's more of this celebration of excess when spending instead of no, there's power in knowing the numbers. There's power in setting goals and paying off debt. I love that there are books like yours that are flipping that script and making it more tangible to reach those goals.

TATIANA [10:52]

Yeah. I think we as women, we have many more insecurities than men do. That at least comes from my experience. So, I'm not talking in generalizations. That's really what I've seen and what I've noticed. Especially as moms, we have even more insecurities than women with no children. But in general, I feel like we're scared. We definitely use shopping as therapy. I've certainly done that and still do it sometimes. I think that's where we need to work even harder to make our businesses successful in the beginning.

I think that in general, women-owned businesses are much more powerful because we have passion. For us, it's not just about the money. For us, it's not just about the numbers. It's a lot more. It's about changing other people's lives. But getting over that hurdle of managing money, of managing cash, of making sure you have enough to pay people that count on you or to take money for yourself or whatever the situation may be, that's a hurdle that I think is really not as big we often perceive it to be.

CAMILLE [11:57]

Let's break that down a little bit. For everyone that's listening and they're thinking, "Okay. I want to have a better idea of managing my finances. I want to create a sturdy foundation," if you were to say, "Start with these top five things," where would you start? How would you do that? And then, I want to work that into our own pricing psychology as we develop our businesses and start to share our services or products.

TATIANA [12:20]

So, as a household, it's important to understand how much money comes in every month and how much money needs to go out and just keep in mind that it's not going to be the same every month. For example, if you have insurance payments coming in twice a year, then you know in those two months are going to have a higher outflow of money. So, just understanding simple ins and outs gives you an idea of how much money is left at the end of the month if anything. And so, that's just the most simple step.

When it comes to a business, it's slightly different. In my book, I talk about running the numbers before you start a business to understand if it's even worth it for you. And what's interesting is I have a client who's very visionary. Most of the clients I work with are obviously not accountants because otherwise they wouldn't need me.

So, this client has a clothing brand and in college I think he was a coaching major or something. And so, accounting was never on his mind. But he's been in business for over two decades. And over the years, he's learned to be this true CEO of his business. And what he told me once was, he said, "Tatiana, accountants don't start businesses. Visionaries do." And I thought it was just some tagline, but if you think about it, it's actually true because accountants, we'd do the numbers really quick on our head and it's like, "Oh, it's not worth it. We're not going to do it." Visionaries don't do that step. And so, they start businesses, but then sometimes it goes bankrupt or sometimes it loses money or anything in between.

And so, in my book, I talk about just doing a simple math. How much do you need to invest? What is that money going to be spent on and what are going to be your operating costs every month? And how much do you think realistically you can generate and bring every month to stay afloat? Simple math. It doesn't require a mathematician brain or degree or whatever, but that's the basic foundational step. Because if you don't know your numbers, then why are you starting a business? And actually, that really plays into the pricing because if you realize that, "Okay. I'm not going to have profit every month, that means either I have to raise my prices or reduce my costs or both."

CAMILLE [14:35]

Yeah. I love that you talked about visionaries and accountants because my favorite display or story of this is Walt and Roy Disney that Walt Disney went into bankruptcy and he had a lot of troubles financially until his brother Roy who was the accountant came in and helped reign it in. But it was really you need those pieces of the puzzle of the visionary and the money mind and the strategy to really bring it all together.

And I think that that's why it's so important that as a business owner, we take a step back and look at that and realize that’s an investment into our business that will pay dividends, that we can't skip over that part. And I think a lot of times we try to do all of the things, which startups or if it's a solo show, you have to sort it out and figure out those things. But that's why looking to an expert like you comes into play and really makes a lot of sense where you can start from the beginning and know that you're checking off all those boxes and you're making sure logically that it makes sense because I am more of a visionary where I have a lot of ideas. I feel very creative. I know who to talk to and what to do next, but the financial side of it is a struggle for me. That's not something that I had a lot of training in. So, I was very lucky to marry a CPA.

That's not the case for most people. I got really lucky in that regard, but it's funny too because when my husband and I sit down for discussing business or if I'm talking about things I want to do, from his perspective sometimes he'll look at me and be like, "You're crazy. Why are you pushing so hard? Why are you doing this? I don't know what this is." Like when I started my blog 10 years ago, it was that conversation of, "Oh, well, is this just a hobby or why are you doing this?" But he was supportive, but didn’t really get the ins and outs because it wasn't like this profitable business. Well, over the years, it became a profitable business and grew year-over-year doubling and then tripling and quadrupling. And that was when he could look back and be like, "Oh, your business has no overhead."

And those are things I didn't think about. It was more about me being creative and visionary and bringing people together. And I'm so grateful that we do have his influence because that's where we really do talk about budgeting and we talk about having weekly family meetings and setting goals. And I think having a partnership like that if you don't have that within your own partnership or your partner, you most certainly want that in your business, so that you can keep on track. So, is that something in your consulting that you've seen? What has been the easiest way for people to get into a situation like that? I know QuickBooks is a very accessible resource. What else would you suggest that we do?

TATIANA [17:22]

If you're just thinking about starting a business, a simple Excel or a Google sheet or something, a spreadsheet of some sort will do. You don't even have to know math. You just put numbers in and let the program do it for you. And so, that's something that's extremely simple. Now also in my book, I talk about the milestones of hiring an accountant. A lot of folks when they think, "I'm going to start a business" or "I'm going to do that or this," they think about, "Oh, I have to hire an accountant. It's going to be expensive. I don't know if I can afford it." And then, the idea shuts down before it even launches.

So, in the book in the appendix, I talk about the milestones when you should hire and what type of accountant because accountants are also different. QuickBooks is certainly great. The only thing is QuickBooks is great, but it also makes it easy for you as a non-accountant to make a mistake. And so, I make a ton of money every year on clean up work in QuickBooks and that usually comes from people trying to DIY it. It doesn't mean that you would hire someone right away. Depending on the amount of transactions that you have every month, you could do a simple spreadsheet that's easier than unscrambling stuff that's done on QuickBooks. Usually, my rule of thumb is 50 transactions a month, you need a QuickBooks and you really need a good bookkeeper for that.

So, bookkeepers are also different. Some of them don’t have any accounting knowledge and that's where they screw up. And then, you end up cleaning up their mess as well. So, again you need to be careful with that. But the QuickBooks tool is great. They're making it better and better every year. And so, it's becoming a true tool for a business owner to be the CEO of their business. They give you the charts. If you're a visionary, they give visionary charts. They're building it up every year more and more. And so, I do really well with black and white reports. Some of my clients do really well with black and white reports. We don’t need the graphic stuff. But some people need to start with the graphic stuff, understand the visual impact, "Oh, I have this much income and that much expenses. Something's not working." So, that's a good start too.

But just doing some simple math every month and understanding, "Okay. So, next month, what do I have to pay? And then, how do I make it happen? How much do I need to sell to make it happen, so I don't have to borrow?" With my clients, the way we work throughout the year is we create a cashflow forecast and we know months in advance when the client is going to experience a cash dip and the client then is holding the reigns, I guess.

CAMILLE [19:57]

Reigns, yeah.

TATIANA [19:59]

Okay. So, they hold the reigns and they can actually make a change. They can either run a sale or encourage credit customers to prepay. Give them a 5% discount. There are all these different things that you can do if you know in advance that you're running out of cash in that month and/or save or try to sell more the month before or all these different kinds of things. If people don't look at their books every month or every week, they don't know that. So, they just go with the flow.

We start businesses because we want to be free. That's at least the way I want it to be on my own. And then, we end up not being free. We end up being a slave of our business. And that's not something that anyone wants and nobody starts a business to be a slave of their doing. And so, most of the time it's our own fault because we didn't give the time to do it right. And that's why I wrote the book initially.

CAMILLE [20:53]

Oh, that's really cool. I like that you said that it really does set us free the more we understand our finances. And what's also interesting is I've read quite a few mindset books about creating income in our lives and also gratitude for the income that is coming into our life and the money that's coming into our life. And the belief is that the more that you're recognizing every dollar that comes in, you can show gratitude for that income and then more can come to you to actually watch the money coming in week to week at least monthly, so that you are very much aware of what is happening in your life.

And I thought that that was really fascinating that it wasn't even so much about the profitability and not running out of cash which, of course, we don't want to be in the red and we want to know that we're projected to continually to make income. But also, on the more holistic purposeful side, where it's seeing that money, being aware of it, and being more in control and having gratitude for it and welcoming more wealth into your life. And I thought that that was a really fascinating piece of accounting that I had never considered.

TATIANA [22:00]

Yeah. Absolutely. So, this client of mine that I actually use in my book, I reference him and his company several times, a property major can learn and be a true CEO. He's freaking amazing. He's a maniac in his business, but it didn't come in a year. It took him 26 years to get to where he is today. And so, I wrote the book, so that somebody can pick it up and take it as a roadmap and skip the 26 years, maybe do it in two. Make it easy on themselves and understand.

I have clients who would say, "Take on every project that comes through the door." That's not how it's supposed to be. You're not supposed to take every project that comes to you. You're supposed to have higher prices. If you have a lot of projects coming in, that means you're cheap. And so, price psychology really kicks in then. I often encourage folks to think about how can you raise prices? How can you make more without turning away the flow of leads, for example, or how can you qualify those leads? How can you make sure that you only work with the people that you really want to work with? Because we as accountants, we know a lot about working with people that don't appreciate us and don't want to pay us for the service.

CAMILLE [23:14]

I believe it because it's something that people just like math and accounting, it's like, "Oh, debt and taxes, we have to do the thing." So, what would you say as far as pricing psychology is concerned, how would you encourage someone who is struggling with finding what pricing is good for them or what customer is good for them? What is a good qualifier or what are the steps that you suggest that people take to find a good sweet spot?

TATIANA [23:41]

So, before I answer your question directly, in my practice, so I'm not a traditional accountant. I haven't been for about three years. But I raise prices for packages every two clients. So, every two new clients that I add, the next clients get a higher price because what I don't want is I don't want to work. I want to be free. I want to work and make an impact for people in people's lives, in their businesses' lives that actually need that impact, that actually want it. They're willing to change and to adapt new tools and new methods and learn how to do it better.

And in my business, you've mentioned that just before you asked me the question. You said that nobody wants to pay the accountants. Nobody wants to pay taxes, deal with it, the whole shebang. And it's not just regular people. It's accountants too, believe it or not. So, when I worked for the CPA firm for my experience license, most partners did their taxes on October 15th. That's bizarre. And so, when I started my own practice, I figured you know what? I'm not going to do it that way. I'm going to do my taxes first. And then, once my taxes are done, then I can do everybody else's.

And also, if you think about it, the service that most accountants provide and the reason I'm sharing this is because I think it can be useful for other businesses to have a different perspective. Most people who provide accounting service provide a painful, but necessary tax filing, bookkeeping, payroll taxes, sales taxes. People hate doing this stuff. People hate paying for someone to do it. People hate paying taxes. So, the whole service is based on an unpleasant thing that everybody doesn't like to deal with. So, a couple of years ago, I went through coaching and there were two coaching's actually, business coaching to help me streamline my life and my business around my life as opposed to the opposite and also the technical training and tax planning.

And the woman who was leading the institute, she gave me a completely different perspective and changed my life. And from that point onward, I'm looking at a tax return as an opportunity, opportunity to put more tax money back into a person's account. So, I'm not selling your tax return. I actually don't take on once a year tax filings any more. I take on people who want to be coached, who want to save more money in their taxes, who want a support, who want an advisor, who want me to be a part of their team.

And when it comes pricing, I raise my prices with every two new clients. And the basic approach that anyone could take, anyone starting a business or maybe early into a business and doesn't really feel confident in any of that is pick a camp. Pick a camp between are you a low-price leader in your industry or are you a high value leader? And so, low-price leadership companies, we all know them, the IKEAs of the world, the Southwest Airlines, the Walmarts of the world, those companies. And there's nothing wrong with either of those. When you're in the low-price camp, your goal is to reduce expenses and increase volume. So, the companies have similar strategies just in different industries.

When you are in high-value differentiation, that's where every company is different because every company emphasizes a certain aspect or a certain value or benefit of a product or a service they provide. And so, think about Apple or makers or whatever. Every company emphasizes a certain thing. Maybe it's comfort. Maybe it's design, whatever. And so, the most trouble you can get in as a business is when you are undecided. You are trying to compete, but you're also providing high-value. You will eventually run out of steam and either close down or you'll have to make some drastic changes in your business.

CAMILLE [27:47]

Wow. That's really interesting. I love that perspective that you have to pick because you can do one or the either, but not both because you'll wear out. That's really fascinating. What have you found as far as building a business and also melding it with your motherhood? You spoke to being coached through that. What was one of the best tools that you've learned in that coaching?

TATIANA [28:10]

As a traditional accountant before, I thought I was free, but I actually wasn't for a number of years. I just didn't have enough work to be working all the time. But for me, it was very important to be the mom that I wanted to be. So, initially I quit my job and basically started my practice from zero. I had a couple of clients and grew. And accounting and bookkeeping is I guess a career because they're similar and related. It's a career that's great for moms because there's no emergency. You can work whenever.

And so, for me initially I worked nights and weekends sometimes not always and was with my kids during the day. I never had a nanny. My mom helped out when I had a meeting or whatever. But for me, it was very important to be that kind of mom. After my kids were three, each of them are over three, I got to a point where I was always busy and getting busier, but my bank account didn't reflect an increase in money.

And so, I realized that something had to change. And so, I hired a business coach. It was actually a group coaching for CPAs. And the first thing that we did was actually a structured week and it transformed my life. And structured week is something like this. And right now, I actually just restructured it last week, but it looks something like this. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, I have my client coaching calls, perspective client calls or if the client wants to talk, pick a Tuesday or a Thursday, whatever is available on the calendar. Those two days, I open it up from nine to five, so my husband picks up the kids if they need to.

The other three days, I want to be the one who drops them off at the bus, picks them up, feeds them, and really I don't want to work after 3:30 because I want to do something with them. Monday and Wednesday, typically I do creative stuff. So, I work on book edits or podcast recordings or course creation or whatever. And then, Fridays, I generally have it reserved to take a day off, but if I don't have anything specific to do, I'll connect with fellow CPAs. We have a little mastermind going on. I'll connect with maybe someone else. Get a manicure or whatever.

But that's a structed week. And now, I've set up tools like a calendar. I've set up tools like automations through Zapier where someone books a podcast, sends an email to my assistant to create graphics and to create other stuff, so I don't even touch that. And so, those couple of things have really transformed my life. And what I've realized is that clients don't care if your kids don't get enough your attention. It's up to us as moms to really take charge and say, "That's enough. I want to be this type of mom." And it can differ from a woman to a woman, a mom to a mom, but I want to be this kind of mom. I want to be present on these days, on these occasions and I can't tolerate not being present let's say on weekends or game days or whatever.

For me, it's the weekends and the nights. I don't want to work weekends. I don't respond to my email on weekends and I don't want to work nights. For me, it's a big no-no. If you need to be supported on the weekend, sorry. It's not happening. But realistically speaking, how many emergencies happen in accounting on the weekends?

CAMILLE [31:47]

I love that so much. You just dropped the gold nuggets. I love first of all that you said you get to decide if you're going to be excellent. That was how you started and then also you get to decide what kind of mom you want to be and what that's going to look like and mapping it out. Because if we're not doing it with intention and purpose, who else is going to do it for us? That's no one else's role. So, that's so powerful. Oh, I love that so much.

Running a business from where you are, you're now opening as an author, you want to do a podcast with your daughter about entrepreneurship which is so fun. That's something I told my son he should do with me, so when I read that I was like, "Yes. That's so needed. I think that's so great." What are some values that you want to instill in your own children as they see you running your own business?

TATIANA [32:38]

I think that has to do with also the reason for the podcast with my daughter. I think that there is not enough education in high schools and colleges about what entrepreneurship is like. We never are "brainwashed" into thinking anything besides getting a job. It worked for some people, but I think many people also just get a job after college or after high school because they don't feel comfortable starting a business. They're afraid of it. They maybe don’t know how to even go about it. Where do you even begin?

And so, my goal is to teach my kids and other kids that starting a business is just as a viable career as anything else. And so, actually if you do it right, you can build a business where you can be free, where you can create job opportunities for other people, where you can have an impact. It's really hard to have an impact in the world when you work for somebody else. And so, I want to give kids tools to not only mange their own personal finances which I think I personally believe that every woman needs to know some accounting. She needs to be aware what the household's costing, how much money is coming in and going out. Where is it going? Every woman has an obligation to do that. And it's been my philosophy and I founded a non-profit to educate women on that as well and that's certainly what I want to teach my kids.

I have actually a girl and a boy. And so, I want both of them to understand when you go to college if you do and you finish college, you don’t have to just get a job. You can get a part-time project trying things out and you should really try things out during college. Try this job or try that industry. Pick what you love because honestly what I don't want to happen for them and for anyone really is someone ending up with a job they hate and really seeing no way out.

In my life, I've been fortunate enough to come up with this idea that when I make a choice today, I want to leave myself a choice for the future. So, that's the reason I picked accounting because I was choosing should I do economics and just finish next year or should I do accounting and study for another two years, but have a skill? And I decided, you know what? I'm going to pick accounting because it will leave me more options later. So, I think that's an important thing for kids to learn is also when they learn the basics of how to start and run a business, they finish college or high school, they have a choice and that choice is totally up to them. They feel comfortable working for somebody, great. Find a job. They have a choice and it's ultimately up to them.

CAMILLE [35:36]

Amen. I love it. What a great testimony to who you are, your purpose. I cannot wait to read your book Dream Bold, Start Smart and I would hope with your podcast coming up that you write a book for children or young adults to do the same. I think that you have so much to offer and it's been such a pleasure to talk with you today.

TATIANA [35:57]

Thanks so much for having me and that's certainly the plan.

CAMILLE [35:59]

Good, good, good. Well, we will get you on the show again when that's the case. Please tell our audience where they can find you online.

TATIANA [36:06]

Sure. So, the best way to connect is either through social media or my website. There's a lot of resources there talktotatiana.com. And just sign up to follow, sign up for my list, and you'll get a lot of good information and some sense of humor too.

CAMILLE [36:25]

Awesome. Oh, I love it. Thank you so much, Tatiana. I really appreciate you being on the show today.

TATIANA [36:30]

Thanks so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE [36:33]

Oh, that was so good. If you are looking for Tatiana's book, you can find it on Amazon at Dream Bold, Start Smart and start your step-by-step process today. What I would also challenge you to do is to map out your week just like she said with figuring out what days are done to help with your life and your business forward in a holistic peaceful way. If you haven't joined us yet, please come find me over on Instagram @camillewalker.co. Also, @callmeceopodcast and on Facebook. I can't wait to see you there. Please DM and say hi!

[MUSIC]

[37:15]