231:Marketing with Strengths & Hiring a Fractional CMO

Ashley : 0:00

So that's where I started to kind of awake to the concept that there's an entire demographic of business owners that are just being completely left out of the marketing industry and the accessibility for marketing. Because you get to choose and create your own path with marketing. There is no one size fits all. It's completely open for the taking. It's really just about finding what fits best for you and then pursuing that so you want to make an impact.

Camille: 0:35

You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO. Welcome back to Call Me CEO. This is Camille Walker, your host, and I'm so thrilled that you're here.

Camille: 0:59

Marketing is one of those topics that is ever-changing, always important and something that can feel like a moving target. I know that, having been in the online space now for 14 years. I have seen so many ideations of what you are quote supposed to do and what is the quote most effective way of marketing. And, let's face it, it's multifaceted, it is multilayered. There is a lot to know, but that doesn't mean that we can't have ways to make it simple, affordable and effective, and that's why we have Ashley Rodriguez today. She is a senior marketer turned fractional CMO, which means that she helps to come into a business and create strategy and marketing effectively in a way that you don't have to figure it all out yourself. So today we're going to talk about how to turn your ideas and your talents into actionable steps and also what are the next stages of creating that effective marketing. That would make your job as an entrepreneur that much easier. So thank you so much, Ashley, for being on the show today.

Ashley : 2:07

Thank, you for having me and holding space for these conversations. I'm super excited to be here today.

Camille: 2:14

Yeah Well, we've already started a great conversation. Tell our audience a bit about where you're from, your family and what got you into this space of marketing.

Ashley : 2:27

Yeah, this is a fun one because it was one of those accidental falling into the industry kind of pathways. But I'm originally from Florida North Florida, to be exact, on the East Coast and I did come from a very, very small family, like many women in our generation. You know the divorced homes, single parents, things like that, although I have a wonderful relationship with my parents now. And what happened was I decided midway through college I had opened up a little photography business. My degree initially was in business entrepreneurship which is funny that you can even teach something like that and I decided to get into photography. So that is where my journey with marketing began. I purchased equipment from a pawn shop, so it was very cheap, and I just started marketing myself.

Ashley : 3:22

For graduation portraits I did a very small budget wedding, a lot of friends and family and family pictures, and that really ignited the fire in me for marketing.

Ashley : 3:35

I was also a waitress at the time, which is very common, for you know college, yeah, and when I surpassed the amount that I paid on the equipment with the income that I was making from taking photos, that was what set the fire in me for business and marketing and just seeing that you really can create something out of nothing, fast forward. I joined the military that was a little bit of a detour for me so I was was active duty for a few years but I continued to go to Toastmasters and really work on those communication skills and then, you know, from there really kind of catapulted into the industry once I finished that contract. So that's where I started freelancing with agencies and working on very big projects, some really small projects and everything in between. So I've had a very colorful career because I never fully wanted to go into marketing. It was something that I kind of fell into and I just followed my passions around through the industry.

Camille: 4:39

That's awesome. Now, something that, as you navigated your way through, you had mentioned before to me that you had never wanted children, that that was something that didn't seem as a lifestyle choice that you wanted to have, but ultimately it changed because you now have two children. What was the timeline with deciding to become a mother, and where did that fit in this lineup of your building your career?

Ashley : 5:06

Um, so it's so funny, uh, to go back to the to those days and really kind of sit in those moments, Um, mostly when I was like in my mid to late teens. Um, I'm not sure if that came from, you know, coming from a divorced household or or what it really was, but I at one point made an oath that I was not going to have children. My mom used to joke that, yeah, it was an oath to myself, Like I'm not going to have children. You know that I wasn't in that and I think it did come from, you know, having to really help take care of my younger sibling growing up and just not really knowing who I was. We went through a couple of divorces in my family and so for me it was like I'm not going to get married, I'm not going to have kids, Right? So it was about 15 onward and I was actually published in a magazine that's. It's the Wellbeing magazine. I should have brought it here with me, but it's a magazine where I get to share that story, and I had kids at the time that I wrote that piece, but just the story about it was from 15 until maybe my early 20s, until I met my husband.

Ashley : 6:17

Now I was convinced that I didn't want kids. I don't really have a why behind that, I think, just wanting my autonomy, wanting my freedom, not really knowing if I was capable of raising children. I think a lot of trust in myself had to be built up at that time. And then I met my husband. I think I was 21 at the time and he has a very large family. So that is where we got married pretty quickly, about eight months after meeting.

Ashley : 6:48

We've been married now over eight years, which is wonderful. But seeing his family and how their family operated his family his parents are still together 40 years later that is what started to give me a different perspective on life and potentially coming into parenthood and also having a partner like my husband, who was very excited about the idea of having a family. It started to change because I had come from such a narrow view of what marriage was and what family looked like because of how I was raised, and so that gave me an opportunity to see something different and start to open up to that idea. And so that gave me an opportunity to see something different and start to open up to that idea. And so we did have our first child when I was 23 years old.

Camille: 7:32

Which is, I mean, it's interesting to me I was talking to my husband about this with parenting, especially motherhood, and what's being painted online in media and social media is that it's something you don't want, I mean, which is really sad to me because I think motherhood and, of course, the choice, isn't the right one for everyone and there are scenarios where it isn't the right choice for people and that's totally fine. However, I am really sad that it's painted more often in the way of it being drudgery and a sad, terrible confinement than that it can be an expression and growth, beyond just the trial of it and like the insurmountable love that can grow and the patience you can develop. I mean, I'm almost 17 years in. I have four kids, so I'm like I will it's. I just want that for everyone, but also recognizing and knowing that there's a lot of couples now too who are who say and commit to no kids for us, and that's just the way that it is. Which the reason why I brought this up is that Elon Musk is saying to everyone now that we are going to have a depopulation problem and that we are not going to have enough people on the earth to keep it running the way it has in the past, which I don't know. It's an interesting topic and I watched my brother and sister-in-law kind of go through the same thing that you're describing of saying I never want kids and then ultimately, you know, spending the time developing the career or having that independence, or growing or healing from past trauma and then realizing it is something that they wanted.

Camille: 9:20

And once you become a parent, I've very rarely heard someone say don't do it. You know, but they were just like gosh, I had no idea that it could be so beautiful. Would you agree with that? Like, how did your, how did your perspective change? I'm curious with that transition because that is a lot to. You know, crave that independence and want that lifestyle, and again, there's nothing wrong with that. I feel like you know, crave that independence and want that lifestyle, and again, there's nothing wrong with that. I feel like I always need to say that. But I'm curious for your journey. How did that develop for you?

Ashley : 9:54

I would say for me it's been a process of letting go of what. You know. We all have different visions for our life, I guess, different plans. We plan, plan, plan how our life is going to be right. And so, for me, having kids has forced me to kind of slow down a little bit. Our generation specifically and I'm talking like you know, maybe like our older millennials, maybe even a little bit before going on into some of our newer generations We've been raised in a culture of what I call a lot of people call it now but the hustle mindset. So it's hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle and grind, which is fabulous. You can do that all day long, especially if you don't have kids. But that's where it flipped for me, once I did start having my children and I still had this deep passion for business and wanting to be a creator and an entrepreneur that I realized the balance looked a little bit different.

Ashley : 10:56

For a few years after having our daughter, I tried to kind of maintain the same level of intensity that I had, and you know it was a painful journey emotionally, having to kind of let go of what I thought my life was going to look like. And now it's not a bad thing at all. I think it's difficult whether you have kids or not, you know, just living life, figuring it out. But what I will say that I really enjoyed about having my children is that they taught me a lot about myself. Without trying, obviously, just having them has shown me a lot about myself that I'm not sure I could have had without the direct relationship I have with my children. So it showed me areas where I needed to be more patient, I needed to be more understanding. It taught me a lot about the workplace because when I had my children, I then started to look at adult as if like who are you as a child? You know, like, like kind of looking at adults and seeing the child in them and then realizing, wow, one day my kids are going to be grown. I used to be a child. Who was I as a child? So it brought me into this big kind of like holistic journey in myself that I was then able to incorporate into business. So that's why you know now my master's is in IO psychology and I'm almost done so excited about that.

Ashley : 12:22

But it's basically the psychology of the workplace and organizations, and I went that route because I started to notice what's really not being talked about a lot is that we're all human and we grew up with this leave it at the door mentality. But now we're starting to see that that's not sustainable and we're all human, whether you're on the clock or not that that's not sustainable and we're all human, whether you're on the clock or not. And so there is a real effect that our home lives and our upbringing and everything that we are socially, as social creatures, you know it enhances or it destroys the workplace, depending on who you're around and what's being done. But I agree, if we look at our generations now, like we had the baby boomers, you can look at this with like trends.

Ashley : 13:06

Even colleges sometimes have a hard time finding students because there was this huge boom with the baby boomer age and we really didn't see that again until more recently, the last few years post pandemic. And so now, yes, exactly so there's this huge gap, generational gap, even where, you know, colleges are probably going to have to close down. Senior homes right now are doing amazing, but there probably will be a few years, you know, in a decade or two, where they're struggling. So it's kind of this being able to see life as like an ebb and a flow, even generationally, which I never would have. I don't think I would have had that perspective if I didn't have my children.

Camille: 13:52

Oh, I love where this conversation this is not what we had planned, people, but it's so true to look at it and take a step back in perspective and I think what it all comes down to and something that you and I align with on a lot is your core values and creating, being a creator of the lifestyle and the life that you want, which I think my message has always been. I know my message has always been do it your way and really take the time to deep dive into what is that that you want? Because I believe in God and I believe in the power of creation and that you are a partner in that. So, whether it's whatever greater power you believe in, or whether you believe in God or not, I believe that our thoughts, core values, intentions, what we put our energy into, will translate and will be responding to the energy you put into it. So isn't that exciting, especially as entrepreneurs and people who are looking to create something wonderful that didn't exist before, that's, our lives and our businesses, like I?

Camille: 15:02

Just I get really nerdy about this because I think it's like there's just so much power within you that you can decide and, yes, circumstances exist and yes, there is health and trial and terrible backgrounds that maybe you had to work through or move over. I don't know what the scenario is, but that power of creation is within you. And what I like about your approach kind of turning the dial a little bit to what you do for business owners is your approach is very much about finding the strengths of the people that you're helping and turning that into a marketing plan, which I don't think I've ever interviewed anyone before that specifically said hey, I look at your strengths and what you like to do and what you enjoy doing and what you're naturally good at, and then we figure out the other parts. So let's turn the dial a little bit and do you have a response to that before we go into that dive, or are you ready for it?

Ashley : 16:05

No, we can dive right in, because I think this is I already have goosebumps a little bit. I think it's going to be a good conversation, because I'm I'm really kind of unless somebody's out there and they're just not widely known yet, I have not been able to find this yet in the space, and that's why I'm really doing the work to create it and that within marketing. Cool, yeah, I'm ready.

Camille: 16:29

Let's go All right. So, starting out, you are a fractional CMO. Tell everyone what that is and then we can talk about the strengths and finding the pieces that we need to create to make it so it works for us and our businesses.

Ashley : 16:48

Sure.

Ashley : 16:49

So a fractional CMO is essentially a very, very senior level marketer, technically considered part of the C-suite, but we're seeing that industry change a little bit because of the online space.

Ashley : 17:03

So now where you know, c-suite executives had 20, 30 years in their industry and they're much older, we're actually seeing a younger demographic because of the timeline of when we came into the online space.

Ashley : 17:16

And so what a fractional CMO does that's different than just like a senior level marketer or strategist is that we actually look at the operational structure of marketing. So it's how the marketing is being run from an operational standpoint, how everything is integrated, you know, from in-person also to the online space, finances of marketing and managing teams that are doing the execution. So a strategist because I had this question before a strategist is more of like the outward, how the brand is being represented and how they're doing their outreach, and a fractional CMO is really looking at the entire picture of how the marketing is being run. So there's a couple of different parts to marketing that you don't hear a lot about in the online space because, for some reason, the emphasis is always on social media. But it's so so much deeper than just social media that the social media is like the tip of the iceberg for marketing.

Camille: 18:19

Yeah, that's a good point, I think, for me especially. I mean, I started my online journey as a blogger, which is very much into the SEO piece of it, and so and social media came after, after I started blogging, cause I'm that old, you guys, and so it's the SEO and it's the ads, but I never put a lot of money into that. But then it became all about social media. What are the videos, what are the images, what are the recipes you're putting out, whatever the thing is? So I think that it is interesting to think about it and how multifaceted it is, because I feel like the social media piece is so in our faces, but it doesn't mean that it's everything. So let's talk about that.

Ashley : 19:01

Yeah, and this is why I love where I think this conversation is just naturally heading is that they're marketing because it's so multifaceted and it's so wide. There's not a one size fits all. So I have one perspective, one opinion of how I approach marketing. But somebody who does it at the corporate level, like massive corporations, or somebody who does it for the tech space, which I've also been in, is very different, and what I try to highlight to business owners is that neither of those are wrong. It just is about finding and aligning with the marketing or the approach to marketing that really fits best with you and your team.

Ashley : 19:42

And that is something that's not being talked about, because often when you get online, it's all about what drives the results, maybe, or gets the numbers or the clicks or the revenue, but there's not a whole lot about until more recently, in the last few years. There's not a whole lot about the relationship building that is really important for some of our small business owners. Not every entrepreneur, not every business owner, wants to scale, you know, to bring on investors to go corporate level. That's not something that I even want to do. So that's where I started to kind of awake to the concept that there's an entire demographic of business owners that are just being completely left out of the marketing industry and the accessibility for marketing. Because you get to choose and create your own path with marketing. There is no one size fits all. It's completely open for the taking. It's really just about finding what fits best for you and then pursuing that.

Camille: 20:39

Yes, okay. So let's break down. If we could make a list I know we already talked about social media, we talked a little bit about SEO, but let's talk about the different types of marketing, just to get a running list going in our heads of like, okay, if I were to do everything which, trust me, I don't think you should do everything, because we're going to talk about doing what works for you and hiring out as well.

Camille: 21:04

But let's go through and kind of list, just so it's top of mind for a minute of like the possibilities for marketing.

Ashley : 21:12

So this is a great point. There is different versions of marketing. I kind of correlate marketing to the medical industry because it's something that everybody has general awareness around. With the medical industry, you know, if we have our nurses, for example, they go through and they get their certifications, but once they become a registered nurse they may go into labor and delivery or maybe they go into trauma or maybe they go into rehabilitation, so there's different kind of expertise or a niche that they get to experience or pursue once they get that initial entry into the industry.

Ashley : 21:47

Marketing is a lot of the same way. So you have generalized marketing, which is a little bit of everything. That's typically where small business is set, because the owner or the founder is doing everything. So that looks like, you know, maybe doing a blog a month, posting a few social media posts and then kind of trying to run the business at the same time. And there's this threshold that a lot of business owners struggle to get through, which is being able to really outsource their marketing as they're growing. So where a lot of our businesses sit and then I'll get into the different types of marketing too where a lot of our business owners sit is like they have just enough to maybe bring in some help, but not quite there where they can hire, like a niche expert, for example, somebody who only does SEO, or an agency that is very hyper-focused on different channels. So the best way to kind of approach or look at the different channels is you have the outbound, which is exactly like it sounds.

Ashley : 22:50

It's outward outreach to new customers or clients or audiences, and that is done through social media. You know, paid advertising, it's really going out to kind of grab the attention and grab people in. And then there's inbound, which is something that, besides the last few years, has really been neglected. It's kind of that second part of the funnel where you're actually building the relationships with your audience, and that is more of search engine optimization. So it's very organic. They're stumbling onto your blogs or to your website. And then there is email marketing, which is now a massive industry, of course, but it's all internal, so it's allowing your customers or your audience to kind of sit with you internally after they've already purchased or maybe already engaged with you.

Ashley : 23:40

And now the tricky part, it changes, because social media is not really about deep relationships. It's about that initial interact with each other, make a connection, but then, when you go inward and you're in the business, there's a different type of marketing, which is inbound marketing or remarketing, where you're building the relationship. So the best way for me to explain that is if you were to meet a friend and you go to their house the first time, it's very superficial, right? You're asking provision if you can go on the fridge. You know, do you take your shoes off, do you not? Right? You're asking provision if you can go on the fridge? You know, do you take your shoes off, do you not? But the more you go over to their house, it would be very awkward to continue that same level of conversation. So there has to be a natural deepening of a relationship that a lot of businesses don't realize actually happens in business as well.

Camille: 24:30

I like that comparison. I'd never thought of it just like that, but it's true, because if it stays surface and more very professional sounding, that can be off-putting, because then they're like oh, they still don't know me, you know, it's just I'm part of their, their email blast, or I'm part of their whatever. But if you can make it more personal and take them on a journey and I think that that's where it gets tricky because we get lost in the to-dos of the day and unless you have someone that comes along like you, that's like no, this is a journey we're creating. It takes that intention behind it.

Ashley : 25:07

It does it does.

Ashley : 25:09

And then now you can see, when we open it up that way, when we look at it as a very human centric, like that's why I say humanizing business or marketing with souls, because if we just look at how we build relationships in the real world and we kind of dissect that a little bit to see what that natural progression looks like, we realize that that also happens in business with our customers, with our audiences.

Ashley : 25:33

We realize that that also happens in business with our customers, with our audiences. There's an energetic transfer of attention or money or whatever it is that's going on. And so then you can see there has to be this natural deepening of a relationship with your customers. And when you look at it that way, it's very easy for a business owner to kind of get clarity over what they're doing, because now they realize, okay, I do like this or I don't Right, so they can understand. Then you know I want the community or I want in-person events, or I want this type of connection versus I have to do this because the marketing industry says that's what we're supposed to do. If that makes sense, absolutely Very creator led, yeah, very creator-led.

Camille: 26:14

Yeah, and I think that this is leaning into that aspect of finding that strength that naturally lights you up, something that feels like, ooh, I get to do this, instead of I have to, which. We've heard that sentiment before and I'm curious, when you're taking people through this process, especially with marketing, what are the questions that you ask them? Or, for someone who's listening, what could be maybe the questions they could answer to help them know what piece of marketing to lean into?

Ashley : 26:46

I love this conversation because again, it kind of segments off in different directions. So within even the small business community, and when we say small business, you can still be a six or seven figure owner and still be considered a very small business right In comparison to the billions and billions of dollars made by some companies. So we're not beyond this even at the six or seven figure level, which is why I love this. If we just look at you know you hear a lot of like, remember your why, but nobody kind of goes in or really articulates what that even means. It's looking at a business owner or a creator they're really creators in my eyes and understanding their intention behind starting the business.

Ashley : 27:35

I've had several different startups at this point because they've all contributed to me realizing very quickly what I like and what I didn't like. And then you kind of pivot and move on. But for the small business, some of them get started because they have a skill set. So if we're looking at, like our handymen, for example, our plumbers, our electricians, salons, our brick and mortar services, they usually get started in that industry because they have a skill set and they want some financial independence. So that's very different than somebody you know they're looking at the financial aspect. Now, if you look at like artists, for example, they're not necessarily chasing the money, although that would be wonderful and nice and we would all love that. They're really going into it because they are wanting to create, to put things out there that they're very passionate about.

Ashley : 28:24

So it's understanding, like are you in your business? Did you create your business because you wanted the financial freedom, or was it more because you wanted the financial freedom, or was it more because you just wanted to do what you love and you really don't care if you just make enough to get by. It's kind of a different motivation for each. So it's understanding, like the basis for somebody who does it for financial reasons and it's okay if you're a mixture of both. But if you do it for financial reasons, you just want the financial freedom. You have a skillset, let's make money from it.

Ashley : 28:52

Financial reasons, you just want the financial freedom. You have a skill set, let's make money from it. It's a little bit easier to get them to kind of detach from their business enough to scale it. And would have noticed with small business owners who are more of like the creator, they don't care about scaling it, they don't care about the you know millions and millions of dollars. They have a tougher time because they're so emotionally connected to what they do in their business that it sometimes can affect their marketing right. So now they're kind of projecting rather than connecting.

Camille: 29:24

Ooh, that's a good differentiation, because what is, I'm curious, for people who, let's say, the money driven people and of course you can be- a mixture? No, no, I mean we do this to make money, like, of course, but in bringing our skillsets and our know-how, whatever, but for for that, and if let's say you were to come to me and I'm going to be two different people, okay, and let's say that I'm like.

Camille: 29:50

I'm motivated by the money. This is how it's going. Help me fix it. Do you come in and help me come up? What do we do as a CMO? What do you do to help me get there?

Ashley : 30:05

So for somebody who cares more about like, hey, I have a skill set, I'm an expert in my industry, you know service based they're usually more willing at least in my experience to pay the money to kind of bring people in that can do the job.

Ashley : 30:20

They're not so emotionally connected to their money, to how they're spending the money, so it's a little bit easier to put the right people in to get them to scale that business, to then have more money. So it's a little bit easier to put the right people in to get them to scale that business to then have more money. When we're looking at somebody who because there's two types of business owners there's the people who do it for money, because they have the skillset, and then there's the emotional connection because you just love what you do. For the ones that do their business because they just genuinely love it and they want to show up every day and do that and they're fine if they just make enough to cover what they need in life, I noticed that it's a little bit they're a little bit more emotionally connected to how they're spending money and then how they're bringing people in and sometimes personal interests can maybe manipulate or change the way that they would do their marketing because they have such an involved role in what's happening with the marketing. So again, neither of those are bad, they're just very different. So for somebody who is more financially driven and they have the skill sets they want to scale, that we could get into all of those channels. Hey, we need to bring in a small agency, if you can afford it, because you need social media, you need paid advertising, you need SEO. That works really well for them and they're usually willing and able to kind of set the costs for that.

Ashley : 31:43

With somebody who's a little bit more emotionally driven and connected. Now we're looking more at how can we keep them involved. Sometimes that looks like events, whether that's virtual or remote, or those are the same thing, virtual or in person. Or maybe we're looking at, you know, bringing in one person who's kind of a do-it-all marketer who can work with them. The difference is somebody who is really financially driven they sometimes don't want to be very involved in the marketing process and somebody who's very connected emotionally to what they do. They tend to want to be like the approval on everything. They want a direct say so in how it's going and you can scale and work with both of those, but the marketing strategy would likely change, because it's more of collaborating with the owner versus just putting a team in place that can get the results.

Camille: 32:36

Yeah, I would think with either scenario it can be tricky to, especially when it comes to marketing and putting money into like ads or different things like that. It's not always an X equals Y scenario. So what would your advice be when, let's say that you invested in Facebook ads, for example? Or you invested in a marketing company and it's just not working out. When would you say it's time to pivot? Or are there telltale signs in your experience of trying one thing one way and then knowing it's time to move forward to something different?

Ashley : 33:15

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. So the first thing I try to do is help everybody understand that marketing, at least at this day and time while we're speaking is tax deductible, so that helps a lot of small business owners who maybe are a little bit resistant to invest because they feel like once that money is gone, it's gone, whereas you know the money you spend to gain new customers or retain them is all considered tax deductible per the IRS.

Ashley : 33:46

So I'll have to share that link with you. Yes, please do so. That helps a lot because now they know, okay, at least the money that I'm making or the taxes that I have, I can offset that a little bit. So there's some financial gain to investing in marketing. But also I would say always give it 30, 60, 90 is what I go by.

Ashley : 34:08

So 30 days, 60 days and 90 days is when we should be evaluating what our efforts are doing. If you do any sooner than 30 days, you're really not getting accurate data or feedback because there's so many factors that can come into play in just 30 days. We all have rent or mortgage or bills, and also seasonal holidays really impact how an audience or a customer is going to show up for the business. So I'd say 30, 60, 90. After the first three months, if you're still not getting any results, you're feeling really uncomfortable with it.

Ashley : 34:46

I wouldn't continue to invest in that route. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work, but if you're already feeling uncomfortable with it, it's going to be more stressful for you. I'm all about reducing the stress and the overwhelm, because small business owners already feel so much stress. They're already so overwhelmed that we don't need a marketing plan that's going to add more to that. So I would revisit something like advertising when they have disposable income or revenue that they can actually invest in it and not be emotionally attached to that money. Yeah, yeah, it's very important.

Camille: 35:21

I've been there in both scenarios and I think when I've dumped money into like Facebook ads, for example, and nothing came from it, it just felt like a gut punch where I was just like, oh, you know that anyone would tell you that if you want to do Facebook ads, you really have to be able to commit for the 30, 60, 90 and be able to be curious with it and do a B testing and be a little bit more detached where you're not so upset about. Oh no, there was another $50 day that did nothing or whatever.

Camille: 35:57

whatever this scenario might be Because I had someone, a marketing person, I hired and she said, oh, at minimum you've got to be ready to do at least 5,000 for this campaign at least, and so if you're not ready to play in that space yet, maybe you have a little more time if you're shorter on money, and so you just have to be more creative with using that time, because it's just playing in different fields.

Ashley : 36:20

That's all it is, and it's just one channel out of the many. What I usually encourage small business owners to do. I have a 30-30-40 rule that I use and I'm happy to share more about that too. But it's a way to kind of structure the marketing finances so that the business doesn't feel like they're losing out. And essentially what that looks like is, if you're going to spend the time to create a social media post, for example, or a blog or something, toss $10, you know, toss $10 behind it, toss $5 behind it, and that's called a boost, right. So if we get on like Instagram or TikTok or any of the other quick format content platforms, then you can boost your content and still get really valuable data for that. But anybody can kind of toss away $10, right, if you're in the business. So that's an easy way to just kind of play with it and see what's out there. The reason I advocate for that instead of like big Facebook budgets or campaigns, is because with the boosting, you're reaching 90% new audiences that have never seen your content, whereas if you just post organically especially for people who don't enjoy being on social media only 12% of your followers are really actually going to see that content. So it's a huge difference, especially if you have a big message you want to get out there. I would say, get really comfortable with playing around with boosted content $10 here, $15 there to just get it out to new audiences and get comfortable with what that data looks like as you're spending money, because advertising is really, really important. But I would never recommend somebody jump right into Facebook ads, where it's a little bit of a bigger spend to actually play around and there is a lot of testing that goes in.

Ashley : 38:08

So before we switch from that, I really want to highlight, because we're on this topic, why there's a difference in agency pricing versus, like a solo marketer who's freelancing or maybe a boutique agency. And the reason is is because these big agencies that are really expensive that a lot of the corporations use. They're working with so many clients. They're working with hundreds of clients across so many industries that they have internal data now that they can use to get ahead of the advertising without all of the testing, because they've already done it. They're already doing it with so many clients and so when you're paying for those larger agencies, you're really paying for the data that they have. You're paying for their insight because they're able to get results so much quicker because they're working with so many clients across so many industries.

Ashley : 39:02

Now, when you're working with like a solo marketer or a boutique, like a small team, they don't have that access because they're not working with as many clients and so they do have to do a lot of testing. And that's why I say give it, you know, 30, 60, 90 days In some cases it can even take up to six months, especially for channels like SEO and to just be patient with it, but know that you're investing in your long-term grow. It's about finding a way to invest in that long-term growth that doesn't cause stress or overwhelm for you.

Camille: 39:47

Yeah, and that can mean just taking it, hiring someone to help you which I'm always an advocate for if you can afford it or becoming an expert at one channel first, and what I mean by becoming an expert is just being really curious with it and trying new things until you feel like, oh, I've kind of got this, I feel like an expert because you've tested and trialed it out yourself and you've been curious about it. And I think that that is something that can be overlooked and oftentimes can feel overwhelming, because we're trying to do it perfect from the get. And what I like about your offering, and what really attracted me to wanting to have you on the show, is that you have marketing resources that are extremely affordable and accessible for all sizes of business. So can you tell our audience a little bit more about what that looks like? Sure.

Ashley : 40:27

So when I decided to get out of most of the client work I'm doing and move more into like a mentoring capacity which you know naturally happens as we as we grow in our careers I felt called to help more people with what I was doing versus just the one-on-one all the time, and so I decided to move into, you know, the making, the courses, the downloadables, things like that. But where it really was different for me was I don't want to charge for those things Because if I really want to help people and share this information, anything is Googleable right, like we can Google anything it's all out there. But the difference is in being able to kind of talk to the small business owner, who again is being missed by the marketing industry by a lot, and making those resources accessible to them. So what I did when I was going through mentoring I was working with an organization called SCORE, I was mentoring. I've done national presentations with them. I took that information because this is what woke me up to the need that small business owners have with marketing and how desperate they are for help with marketing that they can afford. I took those sessions and I created a marketing operations course out of that.

Ashley : 41:43

So it's all about getting the foundations in place. You might not be doing advertising right now, but you can go ahead and get your the foundations in place. You might not be doing advertising right now, but you can go ahead and get your funnels in place. You know, get the journey going. That's where the CMO work comes in, because it's really tackling the operational structure of a business for marketing and prepare the foundation to receive that trumpet. And the reason we do that nowadays is because with the online space, even if you toss one social media post up there, it's very possible that that could go viral even by accident. And if you don't have a foundation in place to really capture that traffic or that attention or that energetic transfer, then it can make or break you in some cases. It can create you know, create a negative brand reputation in some cases.

Ashley : 42:30

So what I do before we get into advertising, before we get into any of that stuff, we really look at OK, how does our internal business work or structure, how are we capturing data? How are we interacting with our people? How are we really building a relationship with them? And now you're in a better space to get into advertising and drive that traffic through. You don't want to pay for advertising and bring in traffic that then kind of falls into the cracks or disappear. So the structure, the operations, is really important and that is something that a lot of small business owners miss, because they're being told that you just need to post on social media and they have no internal structure whatsoever. So it's really just setting them up for success and I know we touched a little bit of, you know, aligning with strengths and things like that. So the marketing course that I have, it's an operations course. It's completely free. If you just use the code free, it's completely free. And that is my way of being able to give back and really help small business owners where they need it most, which is that operations.

Camille: 43:37

Yes, oh my gosh. Yes, I love this so much. I love that your focus is on helping business owners to have accessible marketing that is not overwhelming and plays to your strengths. So if you're listening to this right now and thinking that's what I wanna go do I know I do then go ahead and make sure you check out the link below so that you can access that free training and just start getting curious with the marketing, what it could be, and setting up those steps in place so that you have access to the direction that's here. Very low hanging fruit from our amazing Ashley, and I'm so grateful that you came on the show today I have had. There's been so much value here. I appreciate you so much. Love being here.

Ashley : 44:27

Thank you so much, all right here.

Camille: 44:28

Thank you so much. All right, well, everyone. Thank you for tuning in. If you think that this podcast episode has been helpful to you, which I hope it has, please feel free to leave a five-star rating and review and subscribe so that you never miss a weekly episode of women and mothers building incredible businesses that are making a difference in the world. Thank you so much for tuning in and we'll see you next time. Okay, so I end every conversation with two separate questions. The first is what are you reading, watching or listening to? And the second is sharing a motherhood moment, something that was meaningful to you, whether it was funny, sentimental, thought provoking, whatever, so please share.

Ashley : 45:14

So reading, I'm trying to read and I've tried multiple times now to be more of a reader, but in regards to like my personal me, I'm reading. Think Like a Monk. I know I'm so behind for everybody who's already read it. Hey, listen are you? Listening, or are you?

Camille: 45:32

reading it.

Ashley : 45:33

A little bit of both, and it was really the encouragement of my husband that did it, because I get so sucked into my work brain, yes, but really trying to read it, that's the goal for us is to be able to sit down every night and get there like 10 pages and read it.

Camille: 45:48

Okay, I have listened to that book probably six times. I'm not even joking, it's actually one of those if I'm having a hard time with my brain like mixed in the emotion of the day or my to-dos for the next day and I'm just like busy in my own thoughts. That is a book that I can put on a sleep timer and listen to and fall asleep and not feel like I'm missing anything. But Jay Shetty has a really nice voice that you can fall asleep to. But it is such a good reset of perspective and your speed of life and choices you're making and thoughts that you're thinking. So, yeah, I'm a big fan of that book.

Ashley : 46:26

I love it. It reminds me to just be okay with the process and not try. I have a tendency to want to control how things are going or the outcome, because maybe it makes me feel safer, I don't know. But it really teaches me to like enjoy, just like being so. It is a huge perspective change and it allows me to kind of go stress free through the night Watching. I've really been watching a lot of the podcast.

Camille: 46:56

There's a buzzing. Do you hear this lot of the podcast, next level? There's a buzzing. Do you hear this? Um, oh you, sorry, I'm gonna clap right there. It stopped. Did it stop? Just so my editor can see that. But if there was a little bit of a can you still hear it?

Ashley : 47:13

it might be picking, oh, it's picking up the family, and that's what we're here, they're home. Is that what it is?

Camille: 47:18

Yeah, we'll be. We'll be quick, so we'll edit that piece and then just start with um watching.

Ashley : 47:25

Yeah, so watching. I've been really tuning into um, a podcast called next level soul Um, and that's been fun for me. It's all you know a lot about the spiritual stuff, but also people who have actually passed away and come back.

Camille: 47:40

Wait, how are you watching this? You're watching it on YouTube, youtube, yes, and what's the name of it? Again, it's called Next.

Ashley : 47:46

Level Soul Ooh cool. And he's actually based here in Austin too, which is fine where I'm at and it's a lot of perspective about people who have had near-death experiences and what they realized about life through that. So it's been unique for me because I haven't had a near-death experience to be able to better understand life a new perspective.

Camille: 48:10

Awesome. I've been geeking out on that topic lately too, so I'm like okay, what's the you'll?

Ashley : 48:15

love it.

Camille: 48:16

You'll love it. Yeah, the book I just read just for re, just for um. If you might be interested, I'll share this as well. Let me look at the exact name. It's called between death and life and it's again it. She actually is a hypnotist and helps people like go into a hypnotic state and share what they remember before they came to earth.

Ashley : 48:40

But one of my favorite.

Camille: 48:41

I don't know if you know Tyler Henry but he's you do Okay, so we're.

Ashley : 48:46

I think we watch the same stuff.

Camille: 48:48

I think we have a lot in common because between two worlds is one of his books, and here and hereafter, those are also books I've listened to multiple times. So if you haven't read his books, have you read his books? No, I haven't, but.

Ashley : 49:03

I'm very into like the metaphysical lately, not in, like you know, a weird like rule way, but like just I'm open. I'm very open to understanding more about life than I did, and that comes from being a parent realizing that there's so much, so many layers to life.

Camille: 49:21

Yes, oh, that's so fun. Who knew we were going to keep going? No, All right. So the last one is I think we did reading, watching and listening to.

Ashley : 49:37

Ooh, listening right in the same space. I'm seeing a pattern here about myself, but I've been listening to a lot of like the binaural beats, um study beats, so like the ones that actually are changing your brain frequency to the beta, the Delta, those types of um music, not a lot of words, which new for me I usually like to listen to like actual music. Um, I swear that the 90s had like the best music, the 80s and 90s, um, and that was you know a time that I was raised. But yeah, the binaural beats, um things that are kind of helping me get to um a self-reflective space a lot faster um send me a link.

Camille: 50:19

I'd like to check that out. I'm familiar with what you're talking about, but I haven't done that myself. That's really interesting.

Ashley : 50:25

I will definitely do that. It's been fun. It just kind of helps me tap in a lot faster and quiet. Yes, when I call the work rain.

Camille: 50:32

Get into the zone. The flow state, got it Cool, all right. So parenting moment. You have two kids ages seven and three and a half. I don't think we mentioned that, but what's a motherhood moment you would like to share?

Ashley : 50:44

I would say the biggest one is the lesson learned.

Ashley : 50:47

For me, it's it's really through parenting learning that I I have a tendency to want to teach my kids lessons that I've learned when I see them have certain behaviors or do certain things.

Ashley : 51:01

But I'm starting to realize again the need for them to learn by experiencing themselves. Obviously like safety, food, things like that we have more of like a structure around, but yeah, you know, something as simple as like jumping off of a chair, you know you're going to get hurt. But what happened was is I noticed, when I try to teach them the lessons I've learned, it kind of created a little bit of anxiety for them, a little bit of fear, because now they were always afraid something was going to happen Versus just letting them experience life and learn for themselves and then I just make sure that I'm there for them when they need me if something does go wrong. Yeah, it's been a huge shift for me to kind of let go of the need to control every little thing and I think as parents, we come from a space of love and wanting them to be safe, but there's a real value in them experiencing challenges and experiencing bumps and bruises and it really does teach them so much more than me telling them to watch out.

Camille: 52:08

Yes, that is such a valuable lesson and the fact that you're learning that so early on is awesome. I think it's so interesting having young children where it's so much more about the physical safety and life lessons around that. There is emotional safety too, and learning how to express emotion and how that can really equip your kids with strength in all areas. But watching your teenage children then have to learn on the emotional side is quite the ride too, because you know how they should behave and talk and say and do, but again, they don't learn it the same unless it's their own experience, and that's really powerful and also a huge lesson for us as parents to be able to step back and say I'm here to catch you and support you and I can't make the decision for you. So it's it is. It's really interesting.

Camille: 53:01

Well, this has been so wonderful. Thank you again for sharing that. That's so great. Hey, ceos, thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment and a five-star review. You could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram at callmeCEOPodcast, and remember you are the boss.