223: Secrets to E-Commerce Success on Amazon and TikTok with Tana Cofer

Tana: 0:00

And it's a great way for small brands to get started. So there are programs like that that Amazon's creating A TikTok shop has their own too. That is allowing small brands to be able to afford creators, which I think is really cool.

Camille: 0:24

So you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO. Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO.

Camille: 0:45

This is your host, camille Walker, and here we celebrate mothers building businesses and how to do that successfully. Each week we share stories of real women, sharing their highs and lows, the in-betweens and what they have done, and you can repeat for success. And today I am so thrilled because it is a multi-layered story, one that is also personal and that you can take and run with yourself. The first episode is going to be all about how Tana Cofer learned how to build an Amazon brand through working with the huge conglomerate company Pattern. She is also the CEO of the new Glitter Face edible glitter that you can put in mocktails and cocktails, revolutionizing how you drink your glittery drink. And also how she built the Rosie Ray agency. So I'm so excited about all of these topics. Thank you so much for being on the show today, tana, of course.

Tana: 1:43

I'm excited to be here, share my story and talk all things glitter and Amazon.

Camille: 1:49

So good. I mean, I feel like you. Really. You're at that pinnacle of understanding how to build successful brands using Amazon and now we were just talking about TikTok. So we're really going to dig into how you two can take a product using e commerce and revolutionize building your own business in such an accessible way. So I'm so excited about that. Please first tell us where you're from, a little bit about you, how you got started down this journey of e-commerce.

Tana: 2:17

Yeah, great question. So how do I begin? I'm originally from Oregon. I moved to Utah when I met my husband, have been here for around seven, eight years and once I graduated college back in 2015, 2016,.

Tana: 2:36

I spent my time in e-commerce ever since then and even before that. My first job, actually, I was running ads when I was 16 for a company. So I've just been in the. I've just been in the e-commerce, advertising, social media space since the very beginning of when my career was starting, and the way I got to pattern actually at e-commerce was my job at an MLM that I was at was to kick off Amazon sellers.

Tana: 3:03

It was one of my many jobs there, and so I actually would go into Amazon see who else was selling that brand's product and would actually send it to our legal team for them to send cease and desist because this brand did not want to be on there. And I remember I kept going to our CMO and I was like why are we doing this? This is a channel where we could grow. And she's like this is not how we work. We only sell through our website. Or distributors, you know our, you know our I don't remember what they were called, but consultants, right, mlm, that community. You know we don't let them sell on the platform, so we can't sell on those platforms, and so we were, in my opinion, just preventing more revenue for the brand as a whole by eliminating multiple channels. And so I knew, okay, well, I want to look for a job where I can learn how to scale this. It's new.

Tana: 3:50

I was reading a lot about Amazon advertising launching self-service. People could figure it out, and so I found the only company I could in Utah back in 2018 that was doing it, the only one that I could find, which was a small company called iServe. We rounded that to Pattern and who we see today as this massive right Amazon reseller and agency, and I was the first advertising person that they hired. They knew I didn't know it, so they were just like okay, tana, I know you're just turned 22 years old, but you're smart, you're driven, figure it out. And so I figured it out. I was there for five years, scaled super, super large brands to even larger numbers, helped small brands grow, and that's how I got into this area of e-commerce and just advertising in general, especially on Amazon. Wow.

Camille: 4:41

Okay, so back up a little bit. 16 years old how did you get involved in reading ads?

Tana: 4:47

Yeah. So my first job I worked at a daycare that was inside of an athletic club and my mom is a fitness instructor, has been her whole life, and so that club I'd been going to since I was young. So I got a job in that childcare and one of my first weeks they were like, hey, we want to host like a party for this childcare and all the kids could come and we'll work it, yada, yada, but we're not getting a lot of assignments when you get the word out there. And so they were like Tana, you're young, but can you run some Facebook ad? And like we need to put some money behind it. And so I was like, okay, sure, I mean, I'm a, you know, sophomore junior in high school, I have Instagram, I scroll, like, okay, I'll figure this out.

Tana: 5:31

So they just kind of asked hey, could you run some ads? And so for each event I would run ads or I would help kind of post on social, and it was just part of my job, just little things. But that basically was the start and I never stopped. So when I got to college I was always helping brands, you know, with their advertising on social or on Google, and it just kind of evolved into then Amazon.

Camille: 5:55

Okay, so you're being really modest about pattern. Tell me some of the brands that you've helped to grow on Amazon, because I think just giving us an idea of the huge, huge brands that you've worked with there.

Tana: 6:08

Yeah, I mean we, I work with a mixture of brands, I would say some of the ones that you, I say, and everyone knows who they are. You know Pandora Jewelers is a really big one, right, so we ran their Amazon account for them for years. We did a bunch in the supplement space, so pure encapsulation. Thorne Research these are, you know, multi, multi million dollar Amazon. Not only Amazon, but also, you know, global accounts and international. We did Kong dog toys, right, I'm sure familiar with that. We actually worked on a subscription box with Kong for a little bit. Man, so many Capri blue candles, those like big volcano candles.

Tana: 6:47

Yes, yes, yeah. We did that. So many things, literally every category you can think of. I was a part of helping run school candy headphones here in Utah. Ran their ads for a while, but yeah.

Camille: 7:02

Okay, so I want to talk to you about successful Amazon advertising because I feel like that is something. It's a, it's a search engine all to itself A lot of times. I mean, if you're familiar with the KDP or Amazon associate or if you're an Amazon influencer, there are ways that you can use products and help to resell them. But if I was a brand wanting to sell a product, how do I know what would be successful on Amazon, like what's a good way to start?

Tana: 7:35

Yeah. So, talking about the beginning stage, I'll kind of talk a teeny bit about my own brand that I launched and how I found that. So what you need to do, of course, is think about a category that you're passionate about first, before you even look at the data and I'm a data driven advertiser, data driven marketer you need to actually think what is a topic, a field that I could talk about for years, because it could take me years, right? So what is a category that I love for years? Once you kind of narrowed that down to I love makeup, I love home a category that I love for years? Once you kind of narrow that down to I love makeup, I love home decor and I love beverages, whatever it could be, then you go in and there's a couple things you could do, ignoring any other tool. If you just go into Amazon, you want to see, okay, what is, what is the opportunity? Are there a lot of competitors? So you'll go on Amazon, search the beverage brands you'd be interested in making your own of similar. Well, do they all have 10,000 reviews? Are they all super well established? Are there clear leaders, or is it a space where they're open? For example, my brand yeah, glitter faced, but I don't know any other Like I want you to know that brand and I don't want you to know any other. I know those brands because I went and found them, but I didn't know them before. So that means it's a category that doesn't have a clear leader and there's opportunity.

Tana: 9:00

The last thing, then, is search volume and sales potential. Right, so do people actually search for this? Like do, like what you're thinking of? Your product idea, your category? Are you, like, one of the only people who look for it? Or, when you search for it, are there actually a lot of searches and you can see that on amazon or you can use other tools. One I recommend is helium 10. You know how many people are actually searching for this a month. Is there growth potential? And so, for edible glitter, 150k searches a month, no real brand. Okay, clear opportunity there.

Camille: 9:32

Right, would you say there's a benchmark for so many searches per. And also, is Helium 10 a subscription or is that free?

Tana: 9:42

Yeah, it's a subscription. I think you can do a free trial and there are tiered right. There are tiered payment schedules because I run an agency, you know I have the tool. I use it for all my brands so I can keep constantly searching for other products. But there are other tools out there that may have free versions or trials and you could try. You could also just contact me, Happy to get in a call, walk you through the opportunity, do it all the time, Totally fine with that.

Camille: 10:10

So let's talk about that a little bit. If I was interested in selling something and I had an idea of a passion, I'm trying to think of what that could be. I don't know, but let's say that I have an idea. Okay, let's say I want to do organization tools like bins or I don't know. I don't know if that's probably not a good idea. But if I had an idea and I bring it to you, how do you vet and see if this is viable? And if it's not, then would you come back and say this isn't a good idea, but this is something similar. Would you be interested in this?

Tana: 10:46

Yeah. So I mean I would do it a similar way, that I just kind of walked through like are there competitors? What are those reviews? Is there opportunity size? The only thing that I wouldn't really be able to do for someone is talk to a manufacturer to get off, you know, accurate pricing. However, I'd be happy to kind of show you how you could look at into that right, but you need to go on to like alibaba or an upwork and try to communicate with someone who manufactures that to see, okay, what, what could I get that for at cost and what could communicate with someone who manufactures that to see, okay, what could I get that for at cost and what could I sell that at right. So that work isn't something that I would necessarily do, but I could definitely tell you opportunity size Absolutely, and a lot of things that I just recommend are at least if it's searched 5,000 times a month, like the top search term, let's say that's pantry containers, maybe that's the top search term, we can figure that out. As long as it's at least 5000 searches a month, okay, then there's clearly opportunity.

Tana: 11:42

The question is how many competitors are there For that category? I'm confident there are a lot of them and and what are some of the known names? Okay, well, you have Tupperware, you have Rubbermaid, because they also they're known for their Tupperware. We call them, right, their storage containers, but they also have organization containers, right? So they need to think through. Okay, how many is there basically space for my brand?

Camille: 12:05

That's so interesting. Okay, so let's say that we find a hole in the marketplace and we do that through research on Helium 10. Now, as far as finding fulfillment whether it's going to be drop shipping or we're doing the fulfillment ourselves I know that with a lot of times, especially with Amazon, you have to have so many units per order where either they're fulfilling it from their shelves or it's coming in from a third party place. How, how do you determine who's doing which part of that and if you have a viable enough amount?

Tana: 12:38

Yeah, at the end of the day, I would say at the very beginning, personally, I well, so I don't really recommend drop shipping as much. I think part of that is, though I'm very USA made, focus me as a person as well, as I mean right now, the ports. If you were not USA made, you're having a hard time. Right now, everything for my brand is us made like. Everything is us made, so I don't have to worry about that Like, and so that's one of those things where I would say try your best to do as much as you can locally within what you have and then personally ship it in yourself is what I recommend. And when I say ship it in yourself, you yourself print out the Amazon labels and label your product and send it into Amazon to fulfill FBA.

Tana: 13:26

If you pay Amazon or a drop shipper to do that, you're going to pay more fees upfront, and as a startup, the fees every year are going up and up and up. They're a lot this year. They're crazy high this year. A lot of small businesses just can't afford to launch on Amazon yet, and so that's been hard. I've had a lot of hard conversations with brands who want to launch and I'm like you need to be a little bit more established on other channels first, or because your costs aren't going to make sense yet you need to send, you need to have higher velocity, basically. So I would say do as much as you can yourself, and that's what I do, literally. I have videos of me on my brand literally rolling the product, packaging it, sending it in, cause it's just it's going to be cheaper in the end.

Camille: 14:12

And how many units does Amazon require to have? So when you say ship it in yourself, I would imagine you're doing it in lots, like you're sending in a certain amount of product, or how does that work? Yeah?

Tana: 14:25

You can send in five if you wanted to. You don't have to send in very many. Now you don't have to. Would I recommend that? No, if you can't send it I don't think.

Tana: 14:35

If you can send in a sufficient amount of a single unit and I would say probably a sufficient would be at least probably 30 units then it's not worth it, because the way that Amazon works is you send in your inventory. They then and this is if you do FBA, let me just clarify right, amazon's fulfilling all of it. Right, you send it into them. They then take all the products and say awesome, I'm going to send five here to this warehouse over here in Florida, I'm going to send five here to New York, five here to Colorado, five here to California. That's how you yourself can get time shipping, get the product to you in like five hours, right, because there's product in a warehouse near you.

Tana: 15:12

So the more items you send, the more warehouses Amazon can send your product to, which allows you to get to consumers faster. So that's why I say, if you're going to start, do it right and send in at least enough to get you the prime two-day window at the max amount of places, or else you're not fully doing the test Because you yourself, I assume, care about when you're going to get the product right. You want it to be in one or two days, so send in enough to get that, which usually I would say is minimum of about 25, 30 units. I always say if you've done the research and you're confident, send in what you can send in what you can afford. If you can send in 50 or a hundred, then I believe you should, because you're then going to get the one day shipping badge Right.

Camille: 15:56

Oh, okay, so, yeah, I wouldn't have known that. So if you with the test, I guess the steps and maybe I'm like jumping around, but what is the first thing you do to get approved to be able to sell on Amazon, like, say, I have a product, what do I need to do to be able for them to say yes or to set that up?

Tana: 16:15

Yeah, so really all you need for Amazon is you need an official like LLC, so an EIN number um, that's really all you need and, of course, like an approved passport or driver's license from the U? S to prove you're a U S citizen, assuming you're launching in the U S. Um, that's really all you need to start. It takes like 15 minutes to set up and then amazon um needs to authenticate your address. So either you give them your address, appeal box, whatever is the business address, and it's going to send um like a piece of mail there. Um, google does the same thing, right to verify, and so then you grab it you, and then when you enter the number and you're good to go, so it can be within 30 minutes because sometimes they don't need that or a week by the time you get that that piece of mail.

Camille: 17:02

Okay, and what are some pitfalls that you've seen people run into when they've launched too soon? What are some things that we need to check off the box, so to speak?

Tana: 17:11

off the box, so to speak. Yeah, so when I when you say, when we say someone has launched too soon, I would assume that they didn't do the proper testing for their product to know that it was the right product. Because my guess is the first few reviews came in and they were negative, they were bad. So, okay, okay, you launched a little too soon, you didn't do the right testing of your product. Therefore, I personally would say send that product back to you, destroy it. The listing's done, reviews matter way too much on Amazon. You can't really come back from a bad start. That's not always the case, but I would just say in general, you know at the very beginning, if you didn't send in too many units kind of, cut your losses, let's, let's reevaluate the product. So that would be the kind of the first thing. But I would say another sign that maybe you launched a little too early was your inability to send in 30 units and then send in 30 more. If it sells well, right. If you can't re fulfill the next kind of few cycles, then you probably aren't ready to launch on Amazon, because you need to be able to always have roughly six to eight weeks of inventory sitting and then get ready to send in more, right? So, yeah, so a lot of brands.

Tana: 18:32

I personally for Rosie Ray, my agency where I help brands launch and grow on Amazon, I won't I usually don't sign a brand that just has a product idea and it's just wanting to launch on Amazon. They have to have established sales somewhere. That really the reason for it is because I want your product to be to be validated, so you know it's a good product. Consumers give us a few loyal consumers. And then, when we take it to be to be validated so you know it's a good product consumers give us a few loyal consumers. And then when we take it to Amazon or we continue to scale it on Amazon, depending on where you're at then we know, okay, it's not a product issue, you scale it. It could be a price, it could be a listing, it could be an advertising strategy. Right, the product itself has to be good in order for you to be able to scale well, yeah, that makes sense.

Camille: 19:22

What would you say for someone who has launched the product and they need help with getting reviews? Because I get emails all the time from people I don't know because I have my blog and somehow my email is in the ethers of people sending emails that say hey, I have this product, would you review it? And it's on Amazon. And this is the link and here is the product Are you interested? I don't know how they even get my email, but there was. I mean, sometimes I say yes, like I got a walking pad recently that I loved and it was for a review on Amazon. How do people do that and how are they getting these emails? And if they don't have that access, like, what is a good way to get reviews?

Tana: 20:03

Yeah, so, so, okay. So the best way to get a review on Amazon and to not get shut down is for that person who writes a review first to buy the product and then, secondly, to not be associated with the brand. So one simple mistake that people make is they ask all of their already influencers on their social to go on amazon, buy the product and write a review and then, like the brand or owner will reimburse them for the product cost, right, um, the problem with that is, all these people are already associated with the brand. On another channel. Amazon can will flag you. They could even take you down. So, um, so I would just say, when you're thinking, man, I need some more reviews, don't do that.

Tana: 20:45

Some of the tactics you can use to get reviews when you first launch, if you do amazon fulfillment, you can do what's called the amazon buying program and that program basically says okay. Amazon says, okay, send me some units. I will send them to people who are in this Amazon early reviewer program. No idea how consumers can become a part of it, but they send it to these, these approved people. They then try the product, write authentic reviews and they they're the ones that say like Amazon buying reviewer. If you look at their reviews, it says something like that so they were not necessarily paid, but they were given free product in exchange for their opinion. Yes, so that's the first thing you should do.

Tana: 21:37

Next would be then, you know, asking other influencers people in the content space who know kind of the system, commonly write reviews to go in and try and write try your product review because you know it'll be authentic, honest. Usually they'll add a video like it'll be a good review, as opposed to someone going in and writing like great product, like okay, thank you, I appreciate the four or five star, but it doesn't necessarily like convince the consumer right, whereas if someone said great, here's a picture, here's a video of me dropping the product into a drink, yada, yada, that review is more authentic. Now your question of how do people get your contact info. That is a great question. I wouldn't say there's like a pool out there.

Tana: 22:10

I personally will get people to go and try my product and write reviews by reaching out on social, and that's how I first do that, and then, if they love it, then I ask them to become a creator to the brand or an ambassador of the brand. So it's almost a way to like get them to try the product, give me a review on a platform that I'll benefit from, and then I say, okay, you tried, you tried and loved the product. Let's work together. And I'll do the same thing with bloggers. So if I kind of, if your blog caught my eye, I would reach out and do the same thing. Have you tried to write a review and then I'd tried for my partnership with you?

Camille: 22:47

Smart and I love that too that you can share a product and get an affiliate review without even having to be in contact with the brand. You can. Those partnerships are always way better than just like a one-off, but I love that because of the Amazon associate account, you can get affiliate revenue, which is like really small. But now a TikTok shop is becoming one of the best places to share review videos because they are getting so much attention and it's so easy for people to buy.

Tana: 23:17

Yeah, yeah, I feel like, yeah, I keep thinking within my agency. I offer, like I help brands launch and scale on Amazon, walmart, target, so all those econ platforms, and I keep going back and forth on whether I'm going to do TikTok and help brands scale TikTok, because the amount of time and content you need to put into TikTok is crazy high. And so I would need I would need to hire a lot of people on my team. I and I myself am not like like expert at it, but how many? How many experts are there right now? Maybe 200 in the whole US? I don't know, but there's not a ton. There's not a ton. So there's definitely room to become one of said experts for sure.

Tana: 24:03

Sure, I would say Amazon's fairly niche, and I've just kind of established my name there, which is nice, but TikTok's even more niche and growing even faster.

Tana: 24:12

So I will say TikTok shop is a great place to be as well. Um, and that creator community what I will say is Amazon has another tool for intro creators called Creator Connections, and I don't know if you yourself have heard of it as an influencer yourself, but it's a great way for brands who have no money, like very little money, to only pay, based on commission right. So it's an option, and so they can make a campaign only pay commission, and those who want to can sign up to become a part of the campaign. People who are eligible to be in Creator Connections and I think you only need like 500 followers, like you don't need a lot to be approved and then they can either buy the product themselves. You give them a promo code for half off. They go and buy it and can share content, and it's a great way for small brands to get started. So there are programs like that that Amazon's creating. A TikTok shop has their own too. That is allowing small brands to be able to forward creators, which I think is really cool.

Camille: 25:22

Yeah, I love that. I think it's beneficial for both sides, because then you get access to connections that you wouldn't otherwise, because, especially creating a brand, new brand and you don't have a lot of money or product to work with, you want someone that really connects with your product and isn't going to just try to get a money grab, which I understand both sides, yeah, so let's flip the conversation a little bit to the actual words, because I feel like that's where Amazon does have a benefit is.

Camille: 25:51

In a way, it's its own search engine and it uses. Seo for sourcing, product finding product. When people are Google searching a product, Amazon pops up. So what are some things that we can do for the title description, as well as the instructions and photos?

Tana: 26:09

Yeah, so great question. So one thing I will say is um, you can always run AB tests on Amazon for those things. So don't feel like you have to run the title. Make the perfect title, like make two good ones and then make a constantly run'll constantly run tests. Amazon will pick the one that works better. When it picks it. Then run another test with a new one, like you can constantly do that. But I will say kind of the standard will be a minimum character of 150 to 200 characters for that title is preferred.

Tana: 26:38

And just make sure you bake in some SEO high performing keywords that are really broad. So we'll say for like my brand, glitter Face, we'll put in edible good for drinks, we'll put in the word cocktail, put in the word mocktail, we'll put in the word zero calorie, mess free. Some of those main call outs of my brand I'll have in the title. But I'll make it in a way where you can read it right Mess free, edible good for cocktail contains zero calories, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like make sure it's kind of legible. One thing that Amazon does not like is when you just kind of keyword stuff, right, you just like throw the word in cocktail, cocktail, christmas, halloween, bachelorette party, blah, blah, blah, all the different needs. Save that for your backend keywords. I would just say make it legible your descriptions. Most people don't read descriptions in bullets, so just make sure that your first sentence of each of those bullets is what you want them to see. They may not read the full paragraph, have it there, but make sure that first sentence is really good. So like mess-free edible glitter, you know black edible glitter, those main things you want people to see. And then your really good. So like mess free edible glitter, you know black edible glitter, like those main things you want people to see.

Tana: 27:45

And then your images that's the most important thing, which you can also A B test. So you're never alone, you can constantly A B test it. I would say that main image stick to what's approved white background with the image to play around with it a little bit. But one mistake people will make is like well, I really like my main image from my DTC site and it has a pink background and it's so fun for the brand I want that to be Amazon. Not worth it. Amazon won't serve you. You could become suppressed, they could shut your listing down. It's just not worth the test. Obey the guidelines, do the white background.

Tana: 28:21

But then then your other images, like, really let them tell why you write the brief, like why your brand. You're likely not the only one selling what you have, right, there's probably dozens of others, if not hundreds. So just share why you care about it, why your brand, it matters to you, and then maybe why it's better than others like us versus them. Right, like my glitter is mess free, right. It's better than others like us versus them, right, like my glitter is mess free, right. It's literally in a liquid. If I spill it, wipe it, glitter is gone. It's not this powder poofy, mess, right. So it's a different experience. Mine's zero calories standard is 10. Mine has no sugar, right. So those kind of basic things that make your product different maybe not better, but different make sure that they're clearly highlighted. So, at the end of the day, your listing was very clear. It told a story and people could relate to it, learn from it and understand why you, why you made that brand and why it's better than another.

Camille: 29:17

Oh, I love that advice. I think that that is. I love that you said don't make it like an SEO list of keywords, because that is not engaging for someone just thinking of yourself reading a product listing. You would want it to read like a conversation or like a description that makes you excited about the product.

Camille: 29:35

So what would you say, for someone that is launching a product and they're not quite sure if it's going well enough, Are there some benchmarks of what to try to reach? Or like I don't know exactly how to ask this question because I know every industry or product type is different and maybe has a different benchmark for sales or how many SKUs you want to have for the product. But are there any high level like this is a good benchmark to know whether your product is viable or something that will work well?

Tana: 30:10

Yeah, no, I think it's a great question. I would say I'm going to make the assumption that your product is one that is already there's one iteration already out there, right? So the best thing you could first do is read those reviews of said competitor, other person in the market and see why do people like it, why do they not like it? So you're at least addressing the, you're fixing the issues that are with the old product. You are creating a brand that also has the things that they liked about it, right. So you're creating arguably a better product and then, assuming, when you did that analysis, kind of, look at that competitor and I would say, look at their sales trend, just make sure that they are growing or that space is growing. There are some spaces that are not growing.

Tana: 30:58

This past year, actually, like, the baby category actually saw its first dip in a while, for example, and that category, I would say, will always grow. But this, this would have been a hard year to launch a baby focused brand because the category itself kind of dropped a little bit. Same with like or the opposite. When COVID occurred, right, it seemed like everyone got pregnant, right. So the baby shopping category grew. So there are times where it goes up and down. So just make sure you're also launching, launching at a time where, like, the market is moving in a positive direction, so you have time to succeed.

Tana: 31:33

A lot of brands need about that two or three years to really vet if this is gonna work or not. And I just wanna make sure you've given yourself that runway. If you're like this is all the product I'm going to buy, it either works well or doesn't. That's a lot of risk you're putting on. Whatever marketing intern you hired or agency you hired, or or yourself, it's a lot of risk. And so I would just say, just be cautious and do your research and then be strategic. Like, let give yourself some runway. This like, for example, for example, for glitter face, our first product, I would say, actually kind of failed. We sold a lot of it, but we we realized it was going to melt all summer long and it did. So we actually had a lot of product that was waste. We lost a lot of money, but we planned for failure. Right, we reformulated. Our product now is significantly better than it was before, and if we didn't kind of plan for that potential, we would have really suffered, does that?

Camille: 32:31

make sense. Absolutely, I think that's really good advice. I think a lot of times, we go into something thinking six months or a year and that is just not viable for any business. I feel like it's a two to five year situation where it's like you're in this for the long haul Cause I feel like those first few years are really the playground of learning what works well, what you need to tweak, what isn't working, and you know, getting recognition for your brand, what really makes it stand apart. So I think that's fantastic advice. Yeah Well, this has been so fantastic.

Camille: 33:06

Now, this is part one of the two episodes that we are doing with Tana, so part one is how to build a successful Amazon brand. Part two, we're going to talk about glitter faced and how you can learn from Tana's story, which she just gave us a little taste of. I'm really excited about that, so make sure to check out the next episode, and we'll do that now. Thank you so much for being on the show today, tana. I appreciate it so much, of course. Yeah, I'm happy I got to be here.

Camille: 33:33

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