213: DIP: Sustainable Hair Care, Raising a Generation of Care

Kate: 0:00

I think that the best thing I can say to anyone who runs their own business and hires people is hire people better than you. I am able to be a mother because of my team. That's, hands down, the most important thing.

Camille: 0:21

So you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know this is Call Me CEO. Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. This is your host, camille Walker, and if this is your first time here, welcome. We celebrate women, especially mothers, creating amazing businesses that solve problems, make life easier and also show us what's possible. And today I'm really excited because we are talking with Kate Asarap, who is the creator and founder of DIP, a sustainable hair care line, specifically shampoo and conditioner. We're going to get a little bit more into the creation of that product, but I am so glad you're here. Thank you for tuning in. I hope every episode is an inspiration to you of what is possible and also tactics and tools to help us sustainably take care of ourselves, our family and our business. So, kate, thank you so much for being here today.

Kate: 1:27

Thank you so much for having me. It's really, it's really exciting just that you took interest in my little business.

Camille: 1:33

Yeah, I mean, it's so neat. I love hearing, first of all, the story of how you wrote it in your application. I have a process where these women that I meet somewhere in person, somewhere online I think we met through threads. Is that how we connected? I think so. Yeah, I think that's the genesis. Yes, that's right. And the way you write is amazing. Do you have a background as a writer? Because reading your bio was very interesting to read.

Kate: 2:00

No, thank you for that compliment. I don't have a background in writing other than I love to read, and I don't know whether, through osmosis, I have a little bit of a skill there. But I do know that I hate to tell a story in a boring way, and so I try and use a lot of metaphors when I can.

Camille: 2:19

That's really cool, because they say that brands or businesses that really know how to share their story or their business through compelling copy is a lot of times what connects with people. So thank you for doing that and please share with our audience who you are, where you're from, how many kids you have. Just a little bit of your background.

Kate: 2:39

Sure, the big umbrella is. My name is Kate Assaraf. I am from Randolph, new Jersey, originally, and I've lived all over the country and world and now I raised my two kids back in New Jersey. They are two boys, they're six and one just turned nine, and I started DIP to try and make the world a better place for them and to kind of encourage them to see that entrepreneurship like the nuts and bolts of it. It's not easy but it can be very rewarding. And that's basically the long and short of it?

Camille: 3:14

Yeah, that's amazing. Now, when I was reading your bio, you had mentioned that you were going through some pretty crippling depression. What was it that? First of all, was that postpartum depression, or was that something that was related to something else? And how did you find the momentum or the motivation in a dark place to be able to create something new and wonderful?

Kate: 3:38

So so I've had two huge life-changing events in my life was, um, when I was pregnant with my first son, my mother fell down the stairs and was quadriplegic for six months as I started to get more and more pregnant. She was like my best friend and she ended up passing away right before I had my baby, so that I was not. My baby saved me in a way that it kind of absolved a lot of the depression that I probably would have felt had I not had a baby. So it's crazy, it was one of the saddest times of my life, but my baby made things better and healed me. The other moment in my life that was really horrible was my first business, which was in the same category as bar shampoo and conditioner. It just didn't. It didn't work. I was in a partnership that didn't work and I had to close it down and I lost a lot during that time. And if anyone's ever been through like a partnership breakout, breakup, it's not, it's not fun, and so I'll leave it at that. And and I have to if I, if I had to compare the two experiences of losing my mom and and going through a business breakup, I think I, I think I would say that the business breakup was much harder and it's not has nothing to do with my love for my mom, but it was.

Kate: 5:04

It's when something happens that doesn't make sense like and it's difficult to like to process, like it throws you into a spiral, right. So, like with my, with with my first business, when it kind of fell apart and we closed it, like I went into just this horrible depression. It was during COVID, so it was already hard to be like functioning as a parent during that time and like worrying about like okay, is my kid gonna learn to read? He's like the age he's gonna need to learn to read like what are we gonna do? Like how are we gonna do this? And when a business, when a business, goes under, there's usually tremendous, tremendous financial loss. So, like we went through the financial loss and you know there's this panic that sets in as the world is like collapsing around you and I had to deal with like the heartbreak of the business falling apart and our finances evaporating and, yeah, like not knowing whether we were going to be secure in our house and like pretty much losing everything I had ever worked for. So so I, in that mindset, I rebuilt a company from scratch and did whatever I could Like. There's nothing motivates you like necessity, and so I I did what I could.

Kate: 6:19

Jonathan and I we worked and he's my husband for the listeners. So Jonathan and I we work. We sometimes wake up at four in the morning and work until the kids woke up, tried to be come parents during the day, like, and then pick it up after they went to bed. And it was. It was a really it was a really tough time. But it was also one of those times where you're like you're looking back. Those times where you're like you're looking back, there was like an excitement to the build and an excitement to, you know, having this idea that you want to put out there and making sure it's the best it can be. But I would say the starting of business is so hard when you're already like sub zero.

Camille: 7:00

Yeah, yeah. And back to that question of being in such a dark place. Was it your husband that he was able, because you had him as a partner, that you were like, okay, we can push through this together. Like what was, I guess, necessity is what you said. Like there was no other option, you were just like.

Kate: 7:17

you didn't have the money to hire people to do things that we would have normally had help with. We didn't have we literally, literally.

Kate: 7:23

you know, there was a moment when we were building dip where I like saw stars and started to collapse in the, in the supermarket. And that's not the type of person I am, I'm not, but I'm not. I don't say like someone who faints is weak, but like just to say like I'm walking doing a normal thing and like collapsed because I couldn't, I didn't think I was going to be able to afford to feed my family that week and there's nothing, I think, like walking through the supermarket watching prices rise while you're like in this horrible state of mind, it's, it's, it's like crazy, um, but it feels like another world in another time that that dip has kind of grown its own legs and started to move.

Camille: 8:09

Yeah Well, take us through that process a little bit and I'm just so impressed by you and I think a lot of people can relate to that desperation and to go through so much trauma. I'm so sorry. That sounds horrible and it's so inspiring to me to see now where you are. So tell us back, take us back a little bit to that place and how you were able to take I would imagine your first rendition of what your last product was and what got you the idea of doing the sustainable hair care, and take us a little bit through that. If people don't know are familiar with what it is, what does it look like? Like what is the product?

Kate: 8:46

Sure, so I have, I have, I hope these are. This one has, this, one has one and one's an empty box and one has something in it.

Kate: 8:54

So this is what the brand looks like. It's called dip and it's probably backwards in your screen, but it's solid shampoo and conditioner bars and they're just really good bar like really good hair products without the water. So generally, you know, you can have between 80 and 90% water in your hair care products, depending on what they are, and it's kind of unnecessary. So you know, voila, you have the shower water. Provide the water for your bars. So it's cool.

Kate: 9:24

Um, and it came about mostly because I in 2014, I discovered um, just kind of by accident, that plastic runoff into the Potomac river was making um was interrupting the fish and amphibian life there, so male fish started laying eggs and it was. They discovered that. But that was part of, like, the endocrine disruptors and and all of these toxins that are in plastic. And when I discovered that I was pregnant with my first son and you know I was like sucking down Poland Springs left and right, thinking I needed to hydrate, and I was like this is wild, like how come no one talks about this? How come no one you know cause? You imagine like what it does to animal life, which is bad enough, and then you see like plastic litter, then leaches into the environment and then you think about what it could potentially have done to human health, and we're seeing that now.

Kate: 10:21

Now reports are coming out of this. But this was 2014 when I was discovering this, and now, 10 years later, people are finally starting to talk about it. So I reduced, started reducing my plastic. I just I could make every swap, except the hair care, like I would. I'd be plastic free, but then I would be like shamefully in my own shower using Oribe or Pureology or Kerastase.

Camille: 10:43

Yeah, because you think what else is there. You know, I think it's interesting that with yours, yours is the second brand that I've seen. That's the sustainable bar shampoo and conditioner, and it's really smart. Like you said, the shower is already full of water, so you don't really need to get extra of that. So what was it that you learned from the product development side from your first go to the second time? Can you tell us some about some of those lessons you learned?

Kate: 11:16

Yeah, that certain things that I learned from the first time. So I've been in beauty for almost two decades, so I had a little bit of product development history in my brain. But then with the first brand, I discovered what people really, really wanted was to shop by scent. Like more than anything, people wanted the freedom to shop from one scent to the other. And why that's important is because I watched people buy shampoo and conditioner for a very, very long time at all different levels Salon levels, like CVS, like I watched people buy shampoo and conditioner for a very, very long time at all different levels salon levels, like CVS, like I watched everywhere and what I saw was people had this very similar behaviors. They would take the bottle, unscrew the top, smell it, then read it.

Camille: 12:01

Oh yeah, that's so funny. You say that I'm sure I've done that too, even just shopping lotions or candles or anything. Yeah, you don't even read it.

Kate: 12:09

You just kind of open it, smell, put it, then read it and it's, and I think that insight really helped me, just like it helped me problem solve. Okay, I want to make sure someone has the freedom to shop their scent. What does that mean? That means that these bars have to perform for all different hair types, because if you want, like the rose scented one, but that's like for, you know, curly hair, but you like, you know it's you you could put together what I'm saying. Yeah, so, so I wanted to. My next plan of attack was making sure that these bars, like were, were really, really, as, as I want to say, homogenized as possible. Right, so that they, so that some, like a mixed family, for example, didn't need to buy, you know, three different sets of bars for three different hair types.

Camille: 13:01

Right, so your bars work for all hair types? And then how do people? How are they able to smell before they buy it? Like?

Kate: 13:13

yeah, so we encourage people to shop in store and in salons and so in in the actual box there's like a hole in the top. So you walk into a store and you see like a few of them and you can just like take them and smell them one by one.

Camille: 13:29

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, as far as manufacturing, I know during 2020, that was a nightmare for everyone trying to get product and, yeah, fulfillment and sourcing and all of those things. What were you able to do with dip? That was different from your first go round.

Kate: 13:45

So we I had a contract manufacturer for dip and they, you know, they were wonderful, but they ended up going bankrupt. And what people don't understand about contract manufacturers are during that COVID time so and I think it happened in the wedding industry too so people would put in purchase orders for something or deposits for a wedding, and then the price of everything would drastically change. But the price was expected to be locked in at the first rate. So when inflation happened and it happened very quickly during the pandemic in these past four years these prices that people were promised they actually would eat away at the venue, at the restaurant, at the contract manufacturer, cause you know you, you I'd put in, say like a $50,000 purchase order, but that the value of that wasn't the same once the finished goods came around and all the materials came in.

Kate: 14:40

So you saw lots and lots of businesses fold and you'd say you see venues and restaurants fold because they couldn't match the expectations to the new prices, and so my manufacturer ended up going bankrupt and with that they took a lot of money, which was horrible. And so I had to decide am I going to find another contract manufacturer or am I going to take matters into my own hands and take on manufacturing myself, so I'm not left at the mercy of another business. And so what we decided was we rented a commercial space. We started doing our own manufacturing, and that has been like one of the best decisions I ever made, but also like one of the scariest, because you really don't know if you're going to survive the terms of your lease.

Camille: 15:29

You have no idea so you were able to make the bars yourself. Is it something? When you first started making these bars? Did you make them at home yourself?

Kate: 15:36

the formulas and then no no, no, I'm a strong believer in doing things in a proper facility under, like, very strict guidelines and cleanliness standards and all of those things, especially in beauty, like I think it's. I think, just on the consumer side, like I would expect something that I bought in a box to have all of the legal stuff intact.

Camille: 16:03

You know what I?

Kate: 16:03

mean, whereas you kind of can fly under the radar if you're doing it at your own house. But I it's with beauty, I think it's anything you put on your body or even ingest, like. I wouldn't want um made at home, um, but that's very, very personal to me that I don't expect everyone to think that way. Um, what about you? Do you do you? Some people don't trust businesses and some people seek like cottage made. Oh, I for me.

Camille: 16:30

I mean, I've never designed a product like this, so I was curious for the formulation of it. Just coming up with the idea in general, like when you were first starting, is it something where you, like, made your own bars first and then took those formulas to manufacture? So becoming a manufacturer yourself or opening your own manufacturing lease? How do you even line up who does what and how it? I'm just I know nothing about that.

Kate: 16:58

So I hired I hired two people that are that are experts in the industry and much better than better and smarter and well-versed than me in manufacturing production raw materials, like I wouldn't be able to do it alone. And I think a lot of mistakes entrepreneurs do is they want to hire and be the leader, and I tend to hire people that are just so good at what they do that I'm learning, you know, and um and with my, my, the two people I hired that manage our, our manufacturing facility.

Kate: 17:33

They have been in the industry for I don't know, maybe three decades, really really good in there, and I can trust them to make all those manufacturing decisions that I just don't have that wealth of knowledge to make on my own and they're like like I don't know whether you of knowledge to make on my own and they're like like I don't know whether you're supposed to love your employees so much, but I do like I cannot believe how much I lucked out with having like the best team.

Camille: 17:57

That's amazing. How were you able to find them? I know that that's something that I get questions about a lot finding the right help.

Kate: 18:05

I've known them for a long time, so I had a preexisting relationship with them. Help, I've. I've known them for a long time, so I had a preexisting relationship with them, and when I told them what I was trying to do, they, they came on board and it was honestly I don't because my manufacturer went bankrupt like there was a. There was a point where I was like I don't know if I'm going to have a business like here we go again, like am I going to lose everything again? Like that, that moment, that pivot, that pivotal time where I was like, okay, do I?

Kate: 18:31

Because in beauty, if you give your formulas to another manufacturer, they can change them slightly and farm them out to other clients. And like I didn't want that because I was having mine exclusively made in my contract manufacturer and then so, so I had to come up with that like someone could like another client. So for anyone listening that doesn't know about the beauty industry, someone could come and people have brought dip to another chemist or another contract manufacturer to reverse, engineer and figure out. Like you know, they want to copy it and change it just a little bit, and so that's the risk you take when you bring it to another contract manufacturer If people aren't understanding why I would ever go and make my own factory. That's why I believe in like what we built and how we built it, so much that I didn't want to expose it to another manufacturer that I didn't have a relationship with already.

Camille: 19:23

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting hearing with manufacturing, especially when it's sent overseas. I feel like that's when it it gets abused. More often is when it's going to manufacturers in China. From what I've heard and if you've read the book that was written it's shoe dog, the owner of Nike they went through manufacturing issues and they were trying to break apart from their original partnership I believe it was in China or Japan, maybe it was Japan and they partnered with someone in Mexico but they had to rename it because it used to be called blue lace or something like that. Blue ribbon was the name of the brand, and so they started again in Mexico and they said let's just call it Nike. Like it was this last minute thing. And it's funny how sometimes things like that it's those hiccups you never hear about that obviously were the right hiccups along the way. What would you say for you was that hiccup?

Kate: 20:22

So one of the things that happened with my first brand was we developed this shower rack that we thought was like it and it turned out that that shower rack was not it and it had a 30% return rate and it was really, really bad, but we had only produced a thousand of them at the time. Like, some people loved it, so 70% of the people that bought it loved it, but the 30% that didn't. It really bothered me and I think that that's a high return rate. A big brand ripped that shower rack off, mass produced it like crazy. So they designed around our IP, they made it look very similar but, like, cheapened it, so they reduced the cost of goods, sold it for the same exact price that my first brand sold it for. And then, yeah, and it was like it's everywhere. I've seen it in every store, but I've already seen, like, the complaints about it.

Kate: 21:11

And what I think is funny is like when you copy someone's work, you also copy their typos, and that's what happened.

Kate: 21:17

And so the shower rack that we redeveloped, we went back to scratch on the shower rack and we're like, okay, based on everything we learned about customers, based on everything we know about how the bars are in different situations because, you know, we thought of the bars in a two family situation in New Jersey climate. That's how we tested them on the first shower rack. However, there are people living in, like Louisiana, where it's always humid. There are people that have, like you know's, always humid there. There are people that have, like you know, six kids, so eight people are using the bars and like, how does that wear down and how? So? We learned so much from that first iteration that it was almost comical when the second brand came and like copied it, because that allowed us to really dive into what makes the bars stay nice in the shower the longest. And so we have our shower rack solution now that's not only patented in the United States, it's also patented in China. Wow.

Camille: 22:12

Good for you. That is awesome. You followed that up perfectly. I didn't even give you that hint of that to volley I was going to give you. That's incredible and to learn those mistakes and say we're going to figure this out the right way. I think that that is a really awesome. Now, when you're using these bars for sustainable hair, is it because I've only experienced it really once? Talk us through, like using the bar soap do you? Do you like put it in and like sets it up and then just put it back down and then go for the hair, or is there like a better process than that? So?

Kate: 22:47

when we were so during my moment of grief and depression, and COVID, like that trifecta, everyone was losing hair during that time. So for the shampoo bar, I was like what if we created an application that was very, very gentle on hair? Because up until dip, shampoo bars needed friction to lather on the head. So you apply the bar directly to hair. So it's like what if we change the way it's used and change the density of it so it's more gentle and doesn't like pull your hair out when you're when you?

Kate: 23:16

all you want is for it to stay in your head right so the shampoo bar how you use ours is very wet bar, very wet hair almost like, like you know, when your hair is completely drenched in the shower, it's like stuck to your head. That's the moment you hold the bottom of it and you just take it and you need speed, not pressure, so you don't even need to press down at all. You know how like this is not a great analogy, but you know like when you try and saw something with a piece of wood and you press down with a saw, it becomes less effective.

Kate: 23:47

But if you just let the weight of the saw cut, the cut a piece of wood, yeah yeah, yeah, and so I guess that's that's how we develop the shampoo bar, so it lasts much longer and it also is just you just don't need a lot per use so you avoid any kind of buildup or anything like that. And then the conditioner bar um, that's the one you can be like aggressive with. Like when I was using bottles conditioner I would use so much at a time I'd like squeeze like a big glob into my hand and like that's that I want it all over and like then do it again because I love the way conditioner makes my hair feel. Um, so with dip, I wanted to make sure the conditioner lasted so long and saved someone a ton of money that was buying like expensive conditioner. And then, yeah, you just apply a wet bar to very wet hair and, just you know, go all over and you can avoid the roots and you just you can leave it in if you want.

Camille: 24:41

That's really cool. What have you seen with your kids? Involvement of watching you and your husband run this business. What is their reaction to that? And also, how do you balance doing all the things, cause you're a busy mom with little kids.

Kate: 24:54

So the the first part of that is, um, my sons when so they're starting to talk about the environment in school a lot and, um, starting to talk about the environment in school a lot, and my sons and my son's teachers have told me like how proud they are. Like my son has told me is, like you know, whenever we talk to me about the environment, I tell everyone about what you're doing and it's and it makes me feel like so nice and it's it's amazing. And then, and then my, my son's teachers also like recognize and it's just a very cool community to be part of and we all feel connected through this mission of just reducing plastic and I'm like very proud that the schools are starting to notice and talk about it.

Camille: 25:37

That is so cool.

Kate: 25:39

And then the second part.

Camille: 25:40

What was the second part of the question? Just wearing all the hats, Like how do you Wearing?

Kate: 25:43

all the hats?

Camille: 25:43

Yeah, so tips, tools, tricks, apps you like to use whatever you want to. What was the second part of the question, just wearing all the hats? Like, how do you Wearing all the hats?

Kate: 25:47

yeah, tips, tools, tricks apps you like to use, whatever you want to share.

Kate: 25:50

I think that the best thing I can say to anyone who runs their own business and hires people is hire people better than you. I am able to be a mother because of my team. That's hands down the most important thing. There's no, that it's. It's that's hands down the most important thing. And I also, um, I'm okay with with the business lagging a little bit if I need to slip like focused into mom mode. Um, the business doesn't come first. I learned that lesson the first time. And there's no fruit right. Like I put everything into the first time the first rode rodeo and I had nothing left. So I learned with this one like it's not worth putting all those eggs in one basket, I guess.

Camille: 26:32

Yeah, I mean, that's how it has to go, where we just take turns doing what we have to get done Now. So one question that I like to ask our guests is what are you reading, watching or listening to? You can do one for each. You can do just one if you want.

Kate: 26:49

Sure, I am reading. I've got sucked into the ACOTAR series. One of my customers actually sent me the first book. She's like I think you'd really like this, and she was right. I really like. A Court of Thorns and Roses. I'm on the second book now and I read it every day. Are you reading or are you listening?

Camille: 27:10

I'm reading. Okay, you're making time to sit down and listen. When do you read it? When do you do that?

Kate: 27:16

Just at night Okay.

Camille: 27:18

Before bed All right.

Kate: 27:20

That's a question people ask a lot.

Camille: 27:21

When do you read? Yeah, okay, so reading A Court of Thorns and Roses, yep.

Kate: 27:26

And I don't get to read very much of it at a time, so it takes me a long time.

Camille: 27:29

Yeah.

Kate: 27:30

I've been listening to the same music since I was in high school, so I don't know if you ever. I don't know if this is something that everyone does, but I only listened to stuff from the late 90eties early two thousands. My taste has not changed at all. It's really strange and that's why dip is kind of silly and stuck in the nineties. But yeah, that's, that's what I'm listening to and I don't watch very much.

Camille: 27:56

Okay, right now, very cool. Well, I think that this has been so wonderful to share your product and your brand. Please tell our audience where they can try your product and also find you online, sure.

Kate: 28:10

So you can. I encourage everyone to shop in store if you can that way. So if you go on dipalreadycom and you can go to the store locator, you can find any spot near you. If there's nowhere near you, of course, shop online and then you accumulate points so you don't have to pay shipping every time. But the best way to experience is in store and you get to smell all the different scents. And if you want to find me, I'm Kate Assaraf, you can find me on LinkedIn and I'm also the voice behind our Instagram and I answer all the DMs.

Camille: 28:44

So perfect. We'll put those links in the description below and make sure that everyone gets access to that. Well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your story, and I can't wait to see what you do next. Oh, and I was going to ask you what's your favorite scent.

Kate: 29:00

Oh, my favorite scent is by far the rosewater and Jasmine. It's the box, it's so so pretty, I love it.

Camille: 29:08

I love rose scent. That's my, that's for sure, my favorite. Okay, well, thank you so much everyone. Thank you for tuning in. If this has been inspiring to you, please give us a five-star rating and review and make sure to share with a friend who needs some inspiration. This is how we encourage each other, is helping each other learn through the ups and downs, and this was a really cool one, kate. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Camille: 29:32

One of my favorite habits to do on a daily basis is listen to an audio book as I am falling asleep. It seems to take my mind out of the current moment or stresses that I have about business and puts my mind someplace else. And one of my favorite books to read is Atomic Habits. Atomic Habits is about stacking small habits that you already have on top of something that you want to do that can be sustainable for you. Very small, simple. Think about, you know, maybe brushing your teeth and, at the same time, after flossing, if those are about you know, maybe brushing your teeth and, at the same time, after flossing, if those are habits you already have, putting out a glass of water next to it with your daily vitamin. That is a habit. Stack. Now one habit stack that I have been trying and a new, sustainable way is to drink my magic mind.

Camille: 30:22

Magic mind is an all natural is to drink my Magic Mind. Magic Mind is an all-natural like. Think of it of like a vitamin quick shot that tastes so citrus and amazing, but it packs a punch for giving your brain sustainable power. So when I hit that afternoon slump usually around two or three o'clock for me I've started to make a new habit of drinking my magic mind and it gives me just enough boost to have a little more clarity and give me more focus, and I love it. You can try it out at magicmindcom. That is M-A-G-I-C-M-I-N-Dcom. Hey, ceos, thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment. In a five-star review you could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram at call me CEO podcast and remember you are the boss.