198: Escape Emotional Eating: A Journey of Self-Discovery with Jessica Procini

Jessica: 0:00

And I think it's important to not try to control either one, or even try to mute either one, but to allow space and to pass the microphone, in a sense, from the mind to the body, so that we can take in both voices and then make a conscious choice.

Camille: 0:33

So you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO. Welcome back everyone to Call Me CEO. This is Camille Walker, your host, and I am so grateful that you are here. Thank you for taking the time to improve yourself and to listen to other perspectives and ideas that can form your new perspective and ideas.

Camille: 1:08

I think that one of the best things about doing a podcast is that I get to learn from so many different viewpoints and also strengthen each other through those experiences, and so today's episode is about strengthening yourself, and maybe this is a question or a wonder that you've had that you may want to work on, and maybe it's not.

Camille: 1:30

Maybe you have a family member that has questions or issue with emotional eating, but I think at any one time in our lives, even with my own children, there have been times where automatically they want to go to the comfort food, whether they won the award, they kicked that soccer goal or they had a really bad day, and I'm curious about how much of that goes too far, and when does a comfort become something that becomes controlled?

Camille: 1:56

And so today we're talking specifically about how to escape from emotional eating when it becomes a part of you that you can't control. And it's really interesting with food. I think that there is a lot of discussion around it, especially for females in particular. I don't think this is a topic that men struggle with as much. That could be a wrong assumption, but from talking to many women and men, that seems to be the case. So today we are talking with Jessica Persini, who is actually the owner of the company Escape from Emotional Eating, and how we can create the steps to create healthy boundaries around food, or maybe how to break down those steps or that sense of control that seems to bind us when talking about food. So thank you so much for being with us today, Jessica. Thank you.

Jessica: 2:44

I am thrilled to be here.

Camille: 2:47

Yeah, I think that this is a topic that thank goodness we're talking about it more, Because I remember as a teen, having some close friends that struggled with emotional eating or binging and purging, even in class when they would come into class and I didn't know that it was happening. I think I was pretty oblivious to a lot of things in high school. Now looking back, but this is certainly something throughout my own life that you know, whether it's having had pregnancy and weight gain or going back and forth. You know, women go through so many stages and sizes of our bodies, and so this is a topic that I think applies to most of us, and so I'm so excited to talk about how to create healthy steps towards food.

Jessica: 3:33

Well, I am just so ready to dive in, so where should we begin?

Camille: 3:37

Yeah, Okay, well, first off, let's just have you introduce yourself. Tell everyone who you are, how you started this business and what was it that called you to creating a business around emotional eating.

Jessica: 3:49

Yeah. So, as you said, I'm Jessica Persini, the founder and leader of Escape from Emotional Eating, and since 2011, I have been helping women who strive for excellence heal the roots of their emotional eating so they can embody their full potential. And a lot of people tell me like oh, that's really unique work, like how did you get into it? And honestly, I fell into it because I had issues with food from like the time that I was a little girl. I guess the best story to kind of illustrate my issues was I used to have this thing with granola. Granola is a seemingly healthy food, pretty benign, but when I would eat granola I could go through a bag in a matter of seconds and it wasn't until my hand hit the bottom of the bag that I would wake up from what felt like a food trance and kind of look around and be like what just happened and who ate all my food? And who ate all my food. And it started to happen more and more as I got older, as life got more complicated, as I really started to venture into the unknowns of life, like where do I want my career to go, where do I want my personal life to go? And having these ideas for things I wanted, but not really being sure how or when they would come about, and I would really use food as a comfort, as a way to escape, as a way to come down after a really stressful day. I'll never forget in the first few years of starting my business, it was more of a general health and weight focused approach, and this was before I even really knew I was an emotional eater because I didn't have hundreds of pounds to lose and at that point I had already gone through nutrition school. I already had a lot of credentials. How could someone in the driver's seat of nutrition and health and wellness be suffering from the same thing that she's treating people with? To me that just didn't seem like applicable. But turns out I in fact was an emotional eater for many years and I didn't know it.

Jessica: 6:33

And one experience comes to mind where I was getting on a phone call a sales call at the time and it was just like two or three minutes before I was calling this person and I was feeling really nervous, really overwhelmed and like my armpits were sweating and it was getting like really hot. And I remember going over to the pantry and just shoving an entire bar of dark chocolate in my mouth and quickly chewing it and barely even swallowing it before I dialed the number and called this person. And it was this really humbling moment of like what the heck am I doing Like this? This is not healthy, this is not okay. Healthy, this is not okay.

Jessica: 7:28

And it was from that point that I really started to look differently at my health, look differently at my relationship with food and look beyond just nutrition and fitness and start to look at why am I doing these unhealthy patterns? Why did I feel the need to shove this food in my face even though I wasn't hungry? Why do I feel hungry all the time, even though I just ate? Why do I feel crazy and compulsive around food? Is this something I'm going to have to live with for the rest of my life? And even started to look at where do I go to get help around this, because I had already been in every aspect of health and wellness and I also knew that my issues with food weren't severe enough to be classified as an eating disorder. So I knew I would never check into an eating disorder clinic. I also knew that Overeaters Anonymous really wasn't the place for me. It was like those aren't people like me. Nothing wrong with Overeaters, anonymous or 12-step programs, but I just really didn't identify with a food addict or being addicted to food.

Jessica: 8:51

So it left a lot of questions and basically no answers. And instead of spiraling in the why, why, why? I would just start to seek out looking deeper at myself and started to connect some dots and peel back layers and really look deeper into some of the deeper aspects of myself. And what I found really shocked me that a lot of my compulsion and feeling out of control with food didn't have to do with eating too much sugar or not drinking enough water. It had a lot to do with my mental and my emotional health and at the time a lot of people weren't talking about those things and those things in their direct connection to food. And that's when I started to. You know, have a little bit to keep me hooked in wanting to know more.

Jessica: 9:58

Fast forward today it's been I don't keep track anymore, but it's definitely been over seven years since I have emotionally eaten stop when I'm full and, instead of wasting a lot of my inner energy thinking about food all the time, I'm able to redirect that energy towards things that I want to create in my life, whether it's continuing to build a healthy marriage or continuing to build a profitable business or continuing to build a life that I love.

Jessica: 10:52

It's like all that energy that was once consumed by food and my body. And what should I be doing? What should I not be doing? It really is now available to place it wherever I choose to direct it, and as I was going in this journey, people started to be like Jessica, like what are you doing? Like you look amazing, you look happy, like tell me what you're doing. And I started to share about my discovery that I was an emotional eater, even though I didn't look like one, and people just started to be like I need to work with you, I need you to teach me what you know. And that was really where Escape from Emotional Eating as we know it today got birthed from and then ultimately led to a rebrand and a pivot and just really claiming um my expertise in this area.

Camille: 11:54

Yeah Well, I love that you draw the point of emotional eaters not having to look a certain way. I think that it that's a an assumption, that it would have to mean that you're overweight by some degree or that you look a certain way or you identify a certain way. So I think that, with that being said, and discovering that you talked a lot about the curiosity of the steps of why am I wanting to eat more? And that it had so many emotional layers wanting to eat more, and that it had so many emotional layers, so what are those steps that you generally would take someone through with? Identifying, first, whether or not they have this issue and then, second, knowing the first steps to take so that they feel like they're an active player in this situation instead of watching from the sidelines, so to speak.

Jessica: 12:52

Yeah Well, one of my greatest loves in my business is being able to talk to people about their experience, because there is so much shame around this topic. There's so much shame around the intimate relationship that we have when it comes to food and our bodies. So one of the things that I really love doing is that, when someone is looking to work together, just having the opportunity for them to tell me what's really going on it's a different conversation than trying to talk to your friends about it or maybe even someone else who has their own set of struggles and challenges with food. It really avails the opportunity to get clarity around, like are you an emotional eater and, more importantly, how is this holding you back? That's what I'm really passionate about is where your relationship with food should catapult you to the success or the life that you want to create. It shouldn't be something that sabotages you, handicaps you or holds you back. So what's more important in our conversation is how is this impacting your life and how is this holding you back?

Jessica: 14:14

So, everyone who's listening. I really recommend that you really think about that question of how is your relationship with food holding you back from the life that you want to create? And so the first step is that we have a conversation so that I can get to know what's going on and we can both get an understanding if we're a fit to work together, and that whole process is called the discovery session process. It's really unique. I won't go into too much detail about it here, but the information about that is on my website. And then, once we're clear, yes, we're fit to work together and the client has an opportunity to choose the level of support that is a fit for them, we start the work actually around building emotional fitness. So we don't actually start working with food until we have a healthier foundation built.

Jessica: 15:18

So this is what I like to call. We start with the inner work first, and this is where I teach my clients a particular set of tools to help them manage intense energies, intense emotions, to give them another tool other than going to food, and what that does on a psychological level is it starts to have the brain see that food isn't the only option and food isn't really the only thing that really works. We have the fear flesh, we have the order form to the universe, we have digesting emotions, and these are names of the tools that I had to create for myself in order to move through some of these energies and emotions. And now these are tools that I teach my clients. And so in that first phase we're building emotional fitness, we're strengthening our emotional hamstrings and doing a lot of that inner work. And then from there we start to move towards food and really untangling physical hunger from emotional hunger, because those are two very different forms of communication from our body and we start untangling that physical what is your body physically telling you from what is your body telling you on emotional level? And really teaching my clients how to understand their needs emotionally. But also how do we nurture those needs? How do we have those needs met without using food?

Jessica: 17:08

Because, from our conversation so far, we've talked about comfort. Eating and comfort is a need that is a basic need for all human beings. But there's literally an abundance of ways that we can have that need filled, not just in what actions do we take, but what do we say to ourselves to comfort ourselves, how do we nurture, how do we be like a loving mother to ourselves, especially in the hardest and hottest of times, especially when things get really intense. So that really untangles a lot of crossed wires and then our work just continues to get deeper from there.

Jessica: 17:56

And I won't go too much into all the steps because it would literally take all our time together. But those are the beginning phases of the work, where we start on the inside and then we start to move to the outer and I found that over time that that is really what creates sustainable, long-lasting change for my clients, where they come to me saying you know, I can't eat just one of something, I can't have just one bite, one bowl, one thing. And then you know, even when we move through the first two phases of our work, the emotional eating extinction process is already in process and it's happening less. It's happening less intensely, it's starting to become more and more extinct and that's really exciting.

Camille: 18:51

I would think that a lot of times, sometimes it's the secrecy or like almost well, like you were saying, with the shame or the secrecy where, if you have just the one, I know that for some reason I think of my husband and the situation he grew up with seven siblings and for him, when we got married, I would be sitting eating with him and he would eat so fast. And I'm like what are, what are you doing? Why are we eating so fast? And he's like, oh, I don't know, is this not a normal speed? I'm like no, you're like inhaling.

Camille: 19:24

And as we unpacked it for him he was like, oh well, I guess I realized as a kid, if I ate faster, I would have a higher chance of getting a second helping or more, because we would always run out of food.

Camille: 19:38

And for him it was like almost this urgency of not wanting to be hungry and to run out of food, which I, as the youngest of five, never worried about, that we would sit around and talk forever, you know, like as a family.

Camille: 20:00

And so I think it's interesting that it's not only, maybe, a sense of control that can be something that we're trying to deal with, but also what we've been raised with and subconsciously unraveling the emotions or the link to why am I consuming this way or why am I attaching this emotion to the food. So there is so much to unpack and I would imagine everyone's experience with it is so different and I had to really teach myself. Even after that first year of being married, I was eating so much larger portions, I was eating more quickly and I was thinking, gosh, I don't, I'm way over eating, like I don't need to eat as much as my six foot six husband. So it's interesting to to unpack that and to look at what the environment is with your relationship with food and how that can change the way that you're consuming.

Jessica: 20:55

Yeah, control plays a major part in our relationship with food and what I want to say is that when we use food to kind of fill a need for control, it's a false sense of control.

Jessica: 21:12

It's not real control. Real control comes from the inside. It comes from empowerment, it comes from a belief in your ability to navigate the unknown. So it also really comes from a sense of trust Trust in yourself, trust in the unknown so it also really comes from a sense of trust trust in yourself, trust in the world, trust that we're hungry, that we'll be able to find food. We don't need to be like a little pack animal sucking it all away in case of famine. Right, we can stop when we're full and trust that when we get hungry again because we will, that's part of being human that we will take care of those needs in the future, but not before it and not even before the hunger even happens. So control is a big piece of it. Scarcity is huge, huge, especially in family dynamics like the clean plate club or like your husband's examples, like just really rooted in.

Jessica: 22:23

They're not being enough for me so I need to overdo it to guarantee my serving or my peace. Yeah, family dynamic, I mean there's so much to untangle, as you're saying that that's why we need a good chunk of time to work together.

Camille: 22:43

Yeah, but it's like, depending on what your scenario is. There are so many different ways that it could be a thing, so I want to bring up a couple of, I think, common scenarios, and maybe you could give us baby tools of what to work with just to get started. And one that you mentioned, I think that is interesting to consider is the cleaning the plate. I remember so dietetics is actually a piece of my degree. I did family consumer science education and the head of that department actually wrote me a letter and asked me to stay in dietetics and I almost did. I almost switched to it and I love it.

Camille: 23:18

But one of the studies that I learned from that class that always stuck with me was a study that was done with adults and children that were given the same plate of food, but in the plate of food there was a mixture of some having a pudding that was higher density and calorie and some that had that was less, and then similarly with the other items that were on the on the plate.

Camille: 23:45

So the plate looked the same but the calorie density of what was on the plate was different, and what they saw was that children would account for that calorie difference without knowing that they were different, where adults would clean the plate, not knowing that the calorie density was different. And what it was meant to illustrate is that, as a child, we're born with sensors of knowing when we're actually full, where, as you get older, you tend to override that satiation or that signal that you're full. And I thought that that is such an interesting study and that it illustrates very much that we override those fullness cues or those satiation cues. And so, speaking of the full plate and that's something perhaps that we grow up like clean your plate, you know you don't want to waste any food. Or, if you go out to eat too, you're like, well, this was really expensive. Like how, what is a good tool to work with that scenario of like not necessarily having to clean the plate but listening to hunger or fullness cues or satiation cues better?

Jessica: 24:58

Yeah, I love that you're bringing like the science into it, because I think science, coupled with the work that I do and the approach that I take, really just supercharges it. So it's a great example. And one thing that I'll add is that what changes between childhood and adulthood is that things happen in our life and like filters and past experiences, and like filters and past experiences, emotions, beliefs, create like warped ways of seeing the world. So, for example, someone who has had experience of abuse or even growing up poor or something like that abuse or even growing up poor or something like that, they are going to interact with food differently than before. Those times happened in their life. So we want to think of it as like filters and how do you see the world?

Jessica: 26:02

But also one of the things that I do with my clients is being able to understand like why, why did you clear the plate without that conscious awareness?

Jessica: 26:15

Why was it just autopilot?

Jessica: 26:18

But another thing that I do, we can practice here together, is starting to reconnect with your body, starting to reconnect to the language of your body, so that you're hearing when she is saying I'm full, which is going to sound and feel and communicate differently than our minds.

Jessica: 26:42

The mind and the body speak two different languages, and I think it's important to not try to control either one, or even try to mute either one, but to allow space and to pass the microphone, in a sense, from the mind to the body, so that we can take in both voices and then make a conscious choice. That way, we're not leaving any part of ourselves behind in this process. We're not trying to cut out or cut away you know the devil, so to speak, as my clients like to call it, the dessert monster, as my clients like to call it the dessert monster. We're not trying to get rid of it, because at some point that part of you had a really important job that contributed to your survival. So one of the things that I teach my clients is through just a series of questions of like how do you know when you're hungry?

Camille: 27:49

And since you're here with me, camille, maybe you'll be willing to answer some of these Sure, yeah, I'll do it.

Jessica: 27:59

How do you know when you're physically hungry? What are some of the signs, the sensations that you feel in your body when you start to, just start to feel hungry?

Camille: 28:12

in your body when you start to just start to feel hungry. Yeah, I think I would describe it as like a bit of a hollowness, or like I'll have a little bit of a hunger pain, so to speak, in my stomach, or grumbling. I might start to feel that, or sometimes I, if I have forgotten to eat, my hands will shake. I'll get shaky because I haven't eaten. So those are my cues.

Jessica: 28:32

Okay, great, very clear Now, just out of curiosity, you mentioned the hunger pain. How is that feel different than, let's say, like menstrual cramps?

Camille: 28:45

Oh, it's in a different place. Cramps oh, it's in a different place, okay.

Jessica: 28:51

Different place of my body. I can tell the difference, great, okay. So as you can see, like as I start questioning and starting to get curious, we start to get clear on your body's language. Right, like a hunger appears, probably a little bit higher than menstrual cramps. So in that differentiation we're able to really articulate the body but also reconnect with what it means to truly be physically hungry. And we do the same thing with feeling full. So this might be a little bit more of a bigger question, but how do you know when you're physically satiated, where you've had enough? You can step away from the meal knowing that your physical needs are met, and when you get hungry again, you'll eat again. So what does that feel like in your body, if you can articulate it?

Camille: 29:51

I think that there's a. It's funny because a sister-in-law that I have, whenever she eats food and she's been really hungry she always has this really contented sigh that she does after she's eaten enough, which is so funny, but it's like it's very distinct. I don't have that, but I do have a sense of wellness or feeling complete. I definitely know what the difference feels like when I overeat and I feel a bit sick or a bit like oh, I overdid it, like too full.

Camille: 30:24

And my husband and I actually talk about that quite a bit, where, if we have this really amazing meal whether it's like Thanksgiving or you know a family event, or the Superbowl or something where there's just so much food we'll talk about, oh how did? How do you feel Like, did you overdo it or do you feel good? And we'll say, oh, I, I actually, I feel good, I didn't overdo it today, and we'll talk about what that feels like. I actually, I feel good, I didn't overdo it today. And we'll talk about what that feels like. My husband he'll have very strong reactions to overeating, to the point where indigestion, wake up vomiting.

Camille: 30:58

This is very personal for him, so I don't have those really high reactions to overeating, but I think I've become more aware of what that can look like being watching him for 20 years, and how it's different. So for me, when I'm full, I think it's just a sense of um, completion, but I don't know that is. It's hard to describe, if I'm honest, like it's hard to put into words.

Jessica: 31:26

Yeah, yeah, it's hard to put into words but based on what you're sharing, you know right. Like based on what you're sharing, you have like a psychic sense to be able to know what's too much, what's not enough, what's just right For a lot of my clients. They may know those things but they're not honoring them. Or they may not know those things. They may only know what too much is. They may not know what just feels like just right or just complete, and I call this process when I'm working with my clients a little bit like Goldilocksing.

Jessica: 32:07

It really does take experience to know your body and for someone who is really controlling around food, they will have a hard time with this practice because of the fear that it brings up.

Jessica: 32:25

Because to experiment and to have this experience of letting themselves find these places in their own body of what is too much and what's not enough and what's just right, they will resist it and come to it kicking and screaming because of the fear of losing control.

Jessica: 32:48

But and this is where support and accountability and my help comes in is to be able to let go of the rigidity, to be able to experience something that will just truly surpass, like any outside information about health and wellness. I really, truly believe deep to my core. The more we can know about our own selves and our own bodies, it just really equips us to be able to discern and filter through a lot of information out there around health that is not even healthy. There's so much information out there that it can just create a whole bunch of confusion. And what I love about working with my clients is we're able to cut through the confusion and the noise and to really clearly tune into their unique bodies and their unique experience and be able to like, in a way, like pledge allegiance to it and pledge allegiance to their body and what their body is telling them it and pledge allegiance to their body and what their body is telling them.

Camille: 34:06

Yeah, as you're talking, it makes me think about you know the the tendency or this new wave of people doing macro counting Do you subscribe to? I'm just curious what your opinion is on that, because I had someone, a friend of mine, who lost quite a bit of weight and she looked really healthy and awesome. She looked great. And I said what are you doing? And she said I realized that my portion sizes were too big and so I just started portioning out what I would feed my kids and I'm literally just eating half of what I used to eat and that's it. Like there's. I'm not counting anything, I'm not doing anything, like I'm not even eating different foods, I'm just eating less.

Camille: 34:49

And I think that that's an interesting concept, especially with a lot of people who are doing like Ozempic right now and different things like that, where I think people are realizing that they can survive off of less food. But but there also are uh, oprah just came out and did this big interview with doctors saying that it's not that you don't have self-control. It literally is a function in your brain that this medication is silencing, and so it's not such a war within your, your mind, which I think is is is a disease, you know, and so there are just so many influences and voices and experts saying different things. So I'm curious with your experience of helping people to maybe portion more or less like how do you help them? You said it's a Goldilocks, so you kind of you know it's a trial and error them.

Camille: 35:44

You said it's a Goldilocks, so you kind of you know it's a trial and error, but is there a skillset that has been helpful with that? Do you do any sort of counting?

Jessica: 35:51

No, I do not do counting. I do not teach you portion control. I don't subscribe to any kind of diet or method when I'm not here to teach you how to control food in another way. I'm here to teach you how to trust yourself with food. I'm here to teach you how to have peace with food. I'm here to teach you how to have agency.

Jessica: 36:17

Yeah, in a sense, yeah, I mean I really the foundation for a lot of my work is starting to listen to yourself, because a lot of the answers that we're seeking are inside. So it's just part of it is equipping my clients with the tools to be able to listen and then to be able to honor what they're hearing and then ultimately be able to trust themselves and what they're hearing. So, going back to your question about counting macros and Ozempic and things like that, what I'll say is that everybody's health, everybody's body, is so unique and it is so nuanced that I really do not believe in one size fits all.

Jessica: 37:12

I do not believe that what is considered nourishing for one client will be nourishing for another. I mean, we just even see that with food, Like even with my clients, I have one client who is allergic to eggplant and I have another client who loves eggplant you know, Like.

Jessica: 37:29

So it's really about being able to see ourselves as unique individuals and really asking ourselves questions to start to build back a relationship with ourselves that we can trust, and the foundation that I create with my clients isn't just around food. That's like the portal that we enter. That's kind of the playground that we start playing in, but then what ends up happening is they're able to trust themselves when it comes to work and being able to say yes to certain workloads that will serve them, and then being able to say you know what? I'm full, my calendar's full, my workload is full or I'm not going to be able to get this to you today. How about next week? And be able to even know what their capacity is when it comes to their energy and their career.

Jessica: 38:29

I think it's really, really important that we start to understand what is enough, not just with food, but literally with, like, the consumption of life, because there's I mean, social media contributes to it and enables it of like, this kind of like never enough, never enough, more, more, more, buy, buy, buy, buy. And even that when it comes to shopping and finances. That's an unhealthy pattern If we don't know how to say I've had enough or I don't need another moisturizer for my face, like I don't need 10 million lip pencils, or I am good, I am complete for now. And I think when we look outside of ourselves, we kind of put things through a filter of oh, this should be okay for me, or I should be able to do Ozempic, I should be able to portion control. If counting macros work for your friend, then I should be able to do it.

Jessica: 39:41

And we get into that mentality and part of it is that we don't know ourselves enough to be able to say that's great for her but that wouldn't work for me, or that sounds great for her.

Jessica: 39:55

I'm so happy that she feels healthy in her body and she's found a method that works for her. And I know myself and I know the numbers would drive me crazy and I know that would be really triggering and I know I would actually use that against myself. So I think it's, you know, part being able to see the value in that we are each very unique and very dynamic and very nuanced and having a support system that will be able to support you in finding what truly works for you and being able to create that sense of trust where you can really silence a lot of the noise and be like I am so happy for Oprah right, like I'm so happy for the people who have the medicine that will. It will literally save their lives. And personally, I know I don't fit into that category. I know my clients don't fit into that category, so that doesn't mean that I'm going to close up shop. That means we just have to be more specific about who we work with and who those tools are for and who this is for.

Camille: 41:13

Yeah Well, I love it. I think we have really unpacked a lot and, at the end of the day, I think the message here is to listen to yourself, listen to your intuition. I love that you talked about going through and looking at what we're consuming, whether that's social media scrolling for the sake of entertainment, what we're purchasing, what we're eating, what we're I mean, there's just so much inflow that really taking no minute to pause and get curious with what's happening inside your heart, your mind, your body. You know yourself better than anyone else can, but you just have to stop to listen. So this has been so helpful and before we close up really quick, I wanted to ask what are you reading, listening or watching?

Jessica: 41:57

Yes, so I recently touched back to a book that I had read. I think it was back in 2016. It's called Diana Herself. It's by the author Martha Beck. It's an allegory, so it's like a story, but you learn from the story, which is my favorite way to learn, and when I first read it, I read it in the physical book and then now I'm actually listening to the audio book, because Martha Beck actually acts it out, like she uses different voices and it's just. It's a wonderful book. I recommend it to everyone. It's one of the ones that I think you'll keep coming back to and it really is complementary to a lot of what we were talking about today. But it isn't really focused on the realm of food. It's more about, like, how to approach life. So Diana Herself by Martha Beck, pick it up in the book if you love to read, or the audio book is just as delightful as well.

Camille: 43:07

Oh, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. I feel like I learned a lot. It was such a wonderful discussion. Please tell our audience where they can find you online.

Jessica: 43:17

Sure. So you can find me at escapefromemotionaleatingcom. There's wonderful resources over on my website that can really be a wonderful starting place to look beyond just nutrition and fitness when it comes to your relationship with food, to really start to peel back some of the layers. So that's escapefromemotionaleatingcom. There's links to like my socials and all that stuff, and feel free to reach out at any time if you need anything. I literally love talking to people one-on-one, so just feel free to reach out and I'll help in any way I can.

Camille: 43:58

Awesome. Well, everyone, thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope I hope that this episode was helpful and not triggering for you as you listen to it about food and health and, at the end of the day, I would just encourage you to listen to yourself, look inward and thank you for tuning in. I hope that you will leave a rating and review, share this episode with a friend if you think it would be helpful for them. And thank you so much for tuning in. Hey, ceos, thank you so much for spending your time with me. If you found this episode inspiring or helpful, please let me know in a comment. In a five-star review, you could have the chance of being a featured review on an upcoming episode. Continue the conversation on Instagram at callmeCEOPodcast and remember you are the boss.